Izip zuma controller info needed

[machanic]

I have a izip zuma e3 with the battery in the seat post tube looking for info on the controller. Controller has zuma-v1.7 on it's sticker and it is in the lower frame tube. The bike is 2015? 36v battery and what looks like a kt880 display. Help, no luck on utube searches just reviews with less than helpful info.

 

[amberwolf]

What specific information do you need?

 

[machanic]

The battery is dead so I have to rebuild it, wondering if I should also update the controller and maybe up the voltage to 48v. Wondering if the controller is a sine wave, kt compatible and would handle the higher voltage

 

[amberwolf]

The controller and display, if not actually designed specifically for the Zuma, is likely to be custom-firmware and probably not compatible with anything else (probably not even other years of the same model).

If it is very very quiet, then the controller is possibly sinewave (but if it is as old as 2015, probably not). If the system makes a "buzzing" noise inside the motor, it is probably not sinewave.


If the system was 36v before, then going to 48v (assuming a compatible non-speed-limited controller) means the motor will be driven proportionally faster at full throttle, with proportionally more watts (assuming the same current limit). So the bike may also go proportionally faster (depending on whether there is enough watts to overcome air resistance at that speed under the load and road / terrain / wind conditions you're riding in), with greater motor heating from the higher load on it.

If it's a small geared hubmotor (most likely), it may handle that for short periods; longer ones depends on how much cooling it gets and how well it is designed for the higher loads. If it is a DD hubmotor it'll handle the extra power more easily without overheating as it has less layers for the heat to have to pass thru to get out of the motor (and it has less parts to break from the extra torque on them, no internal freewheel/clutch and gears).

 

[amberwolf]

Regarding any changes / upgrades to the system:

Did the system do the job you want it to do, the way you want to do it, before the battery died?

If so, then I would just rebuild the battery to remain compatible with the original stuff.

If not, then you'd have to consider what exactly you want the system to do and how you want it to do that for you, before deciding on what to replace, and what to replace it with. If you list the things you want it to do that it doesn't/didn't, and the specific conditions under which it has to do them, we can try to help you find things that will accomplish those goals.

 

[machanic]

I received the bike with a dead battery so I don't know how it ran. The rear hub motor is rated 36v 500w gear reduction currie. I believe the bike is a 2015 so probably not a sine wave. The reviews I have read give it a 20 mph top speed, I wouldn't mind a few more mph.

 

[amberwolf]

There's a few different "currie gear reduction" systems. Some are hubmotors, like this
https://electricscooterparts.com/currie326bicyclekit.html
and some are external chaindrive motors (that run the left side of the rear wheel) like some of these
https://electricscooterparts.com/motors36volt.html

Most of the former are brushless 3-phase motors (BLDC) and can be run by most any common ebike/scooter controller (3 phase wire to motor (and often 5 hall wires)), and most of the latter are brushed motors that require a brushed motor controller. (2-wire to motor)

Which do you have?

 

[machanic]

The typical internal planetary reduction gear drive three phase brushless hub motor.

 

[amberwolf]

Then you could use any typical brushless ebike / scooter controller for it. If it just has three phase wires then you need a sensorless controller. If it has three phase wires and 5 (or 6) small sensor wires (hall sensors, plus possibly a speed sensor wire) then you can use a sensored controller for better startups from a stop.

You just need to define what you want the bike to do for you and how you want it to do that, so that you can pick a controller that has the right feature set.

Some are just a controller, no display, so they typically have no settings or anything you can change. They just do what they do the way they were factory set to do it. Some have a display that shows you various info (speed, battery remaining, etc) lets you change some settings, and possibly have multiple levels of assist, etc.

Some are PAS-capable (where how you operate the pedals controls the motor), and there are a number of ways those work, from the most common on/off (if pedals are moving, full power at the chosen assist level is provided) to cadence or even torque-based control, where either how fast or how hard you are pedalling controls the amount of motor assist.

Some are throttle-only, and some are throttle-controlled while you are pedalling, etc.


Then you can also define the amount of power you need in order to do the job you want under the conditions you have. Meaning, how fast you want to go, on what kind of terrain, under what wind / etc conditions, and how quickly you'd like to get started from a stop, etc., and how far you need it to go under worst-case conditions at the highest speed.

If none of that matters and all you want is to go without pedalling as hard...it would probably work just like it already is, once the battery is replaced or fixed.

If you need higher speed, you'll need higher voltage and higher power than the original provided. More power will heat the motor more; if it's like most, it can take a little more than "rated"; a lot more continuously might be a problem. A few MPH more than 20 is easy enough; say 25mph would probably take 750w or less, depends on conditions. More hills or more headwinds takes more, flatter roads with no winds takes less. Even tire pressure/etc matters.

Simulator at http://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html may help you see how it works and help you pick the size of controller and battery you'd need to do a particular job.

 

[machanic]

Since I have change the bms board for the battery I guess I might as well go for 48v with a new sine wave controller, have you any experience with the torque simulating controllers?

 

[amberwolf]

Not directly, but they don't actually do torque control, either being controlled by the torque of you pedalling or by controlling the torque of the motor.

It's just a poor wording for how they choose assist levels and control them with a simple "cadence" PAS sensor. (though AFAIK they still are only on/off control of whatever the assist level is set to) THey use this wording because, loosely, the amount of current to the motor controls the amount of torque it produces. Note that this only applies to the pedal control (PAS), not the throttle (for those that have a throttle).

AFAIK, what these do differently than regular ones is the assist level is for a certain amount of power or current, rather than a certain speed limit. (so when you pedal, it makes it go whatever speed that amount of power or current is capable of doing under the present conditions).

Most of the multi-assist level controllers simply have different speed limits for each assist level (so when you pedal, it just makes it go whatever speed the assist is set to, regardless of conditions, up to the max power it can output so if you are under conditions too extreme for the power that controller can output then it won't go as fast as the assist level is set to).

It's likely that you'll get a more bicycle-like experience with the TS-type controllers than with others that just have a few speed levels of assist. But if you can find one that will do actual cadence control (so the speed of pedalling controls the speed or power of the bike), or are willing to setup something like the Cycle Analyst 3.x, you can get an even better experience that is much more finely controllable. (this is how I control my SB Cruiser trike).

This lists some threads and posts referring to "torque simulation controllers" here on the forums, some of which have some discussion about how some of them work, if it's helpful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=torque+simulation+controllers+site:endless-sphere.com

 

[machanic]

Thanks for the advice and direction to relevant info, now have a plan. I have three ebike projects going and the budget has been tight.

 

[machanic]

After lots of hunting and reading on site I concluded the motor is a rebadged bafang 8fun cst labled currie hte which will handle the 48v upgrade and by the specs should up the performance to a thrilling level!
Thanks again for the help.