kmxtornado's first e-bike conversion build thread *photos*

In my limited experience of reading about failures, rather than direclty seeing them, most of the racks that fail that are rated for (sometimes much) more than the load they carry fail in bumpy situations, but last forever in flat road situations.

My expereinces are from my own homemade racks, and a couple of crappy used ones, and various types of steel basket racks, carrying various cargo rather than batteries, mostly.

The thing you have to remember is that there is inertia and leverage and sway when figuring actual weight capacity with a rack,

I don't know what the math is for it, but weight that's out at the back end of a rack vs near the front will be multiplied during both bump and after the fall back to the ground. Most likely, in many bumpy situations, that's going to exceed the rack's specs each big bump you hit. Eventually, it's going to cause a final failure, after many stresses to it.

Not only is it vertical bumps, but also the sideways sway of the rack both as you pedal and as you lean into turns, etc. Tiny stresses that it seems few racks are designed to deal with just add up over time.

A rack that is supported by posts at the dropouts as well as seatpost is going to be stronger than a single seatpost-mount-point type, but even these will fail. One issue is that typically the dropout supports are on pivots so that it will fit many different bikes. That means there is no solid mounting there, so sidesway is even worse than if it were all welded together. Often the front rack support on those that *are* welded is thin and can't prevent sway at the front, or allows the rack to bow up and down at the front end, which stresses the welds on the vertical dropout supports in a different direction (as well as the sway problem). Eventually, the little cracks join up and become big cracks, spread further, and stuff breaks off.

Any rack that only has one supported end is going to be even less likely to survive, as it can't do anything at all about either vertical or horizontal movement--it's just like you holding your arm out and jumping up and down and leaning back and forth. Your hand will end up swaying all over the place. It's got joints designed to accomodate that, so it doesnt' usually break and fall off, but the rack isn't meant to do that so it will eventually come apart, leaving your battery on the road behind you somewhere. :(


Basically, in bumpy sitautions, all racks will rpobably fail eventually. The more solidly built a rack is, with proper triangulation against all axes of movement, the more likely it will outlast your need of it. Most racks have no triangulation at all, and can sway and move in all axes, so their joints break from movement they're not intended to handle.
 
I agree 100%. Makes sense, which means I should probably do away with the seatpost only mounted ones. I hope you like the standard Phoenix Rear one b/c I just ordered it last night. Thoughts on that? Sucks and I'll have to return it or do you have high hopes for it? EIther way, I'm going to try it out and report back but it doesn't hurt to hear your opinion.You have more experience with racks than I do. I have literally none. This is my first rack ever.
 
kmxtornado said:
I hope you like the standard Phoenix Rear one b/c I just ordered it last night. Thoughts on that?
The one you linked above?
http://www.amazon.com/Axiom-Phoenix-White-Frame-Black/dp/B0025UGFP2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I158I50KBNFXE3&colid=1DUKGHHQBUSAU
31F+oY011YL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Well, it appears to be very solidly welded together, which is good. But it has ZERO sideways triangulation, which is true of almost every single rack out there. That's one of the parts that ends up breaking stuff, with heavy loads, because the teensy little sways back and forth now bend and twist things sideways, especially when there's weight out there at the back end of the rack, which isn't fixed to anything.

The one part that naturally isn't welded is the front moutning ponts on teh rack, because it would only fit one size bike if it was. So the adjustment points make a weak point that can fail.

(although I used to have a rack that was all welded aluminum, with a tube from it's front end to the bike's seatpost that apparently based on what the orignal owner had done, you were supposed to just cut to size, fishmouth it to fit flush with teh seatpost ro seattube, then use the closest hole it had drilled in it to run the U-clamp's bolt thru. It was the best and longest lasting rack I had of the premade ones, but it was stolen off the bike after a couple years, something like 20 years ago or so. Guess it looked too nice. Wish I'd run the bike lock thru it, too. Oh, well.)
 
The rack is in! Came in the mail just yesterday and I popped it on that evening. More pics on my blog, but here's a little teaser:
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I was able to route the wires fairly nicely and it came out pretty decent.
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Too bad the rear rack extension rods (is that the correct term? What are they called? I need to get longer ones) are too short causing the rack to tilt forward: Looks a it odd. I really want to fix this. Anyone know where I can get longer rods so I can pull it back another few degrees?
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I haven't powered this puppy on yet. I'll do it tonight and take it for a test spin. Super excited. Thanks again for all who contributed to my decision in purchasing the kit and all your input for the rack and everything else. It hasn't gone unnoticed. Much appreciated.

Next is to put on the white sidewall tire for the front wheel. Hopefully that will make the superbright white rear rack look less odd. What does everyone think of it so far?
 
The rack I use came with my yescomusa hub motor kits. It's solid steel bars, not tubes, and I;m not sure how much it can hold but my 125lb wife can sit on and bounce up and down on it and not phase it.
 
Wow, that's crazy. Looks like you got a helluva deal with Yescomusa. I know you're a big fan. Maybe if I knew more about all this e-bike stuff and wasn't so set on stealth, I would've picked up one of those too. I hope I won't be disappointed when I hop on the converted e-bike for the first time this evening. Wish me luck. I'm so stoked!

UPDATE: 11/9/11
I put the white wheel on! Helps balance out all the whiteness in the rear. What'd you think?

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Here's the pic with the more bland background so you can see the bike better. As always, more pics and details on my blog (see sig).

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I couldn't help myself and replaced the water bottle cage with a white one to match.
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Out with the old. In with the new. This thing's pretty beefy. More pics on the blog, but here's a comparison pic for now:
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On goes the the bike stand. I opted for the dual kickstand from Amazon. They've raised the price since, but it's still a decent deal. Beware that I had to purchase a longer bolt than the one that came with it in order to make it work:
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wesnewell said:
The rack I use came with my yescomusa hub motor kits. It's solid steel bars, not tubes, and I;m not sure how much it can hold but my 125lb wife can sit on and bounce up and down on it and not phase it.

Sorta wish I heard that earlier. That'd be cool if I could have a passenger on the back. Hahah!
 
Nope, I haven't forgotten about the original restoration project bike. This 12 year old bike is coming back alive! The paint job is finally finished:
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Here are all the fun toys. I'll try to extend the installation over the course of the week so I can enjoy every moment of it. I never thought I'd ever build a bike from scratch, but this is pretty much it. It's coming together!
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I hope I won't be tempted to fire this thing up with an e kit. I can't afford the damage. Another $700? Ouch. Just watch me convince myself to get another kit by suggesting that I only get the kit (w/o battery). The price would pretty much be cut in half! What a deal, right? Hahah. Not that I'm getting another kit, but if I were to, I have a question: What would the difference in performance be btw powering a 500w kit vs a 1000w kit with the same 36v 10ah battery? I have my eye on cell_man's

- Mac 500w kit: http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i23.html and his
- Mac 1000w: http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i24.html
 
I went with the VDO C1 computer. Why? Easy. It was the cheapest wireless one available. Good reviews too, so at $19.99 plus $5.99 shipping, it wasn't too bad at all. And it includes batteries! They all do, but it still gets me excited. Hahaha. This is for the ebike, but I might get another one or at least a mount/sensor for the restoration bike.
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The brakes are going on first. Why? Uh, well I don't have the quill stem ready to install yet, so there wasn't really anything else I could mount. Very excited, so I had to at last pick something up and put it on. This is how it looks:
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$10 derailleur. I hope it works:
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When it comes to decals, ebay is my friend and can be yours too! This was a custom order from a guy who was willing to make a few changes in colors for me. He threw in some free decals too. I haven't really figured out what combination of colors and locations to put the decals. If I was more certain, I'd clearcoat over the decals but I have a feeling I'm going to want to change it once I slap these on. At least now I'll have the option:
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I figured it was time to mount the tires. I was tired of wheels laying around the garage everywhere. It's also nice that the bike frame isn't sitting on top of the table. It's got it's own feet now! The first pic of the restoration bike next to the newly built e-bike! Together at last!
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Yes, I gave in. I blame my fingers for putting my browser on Craigslist to look for wheel sets. And Bingo! I found a set:
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They look tons better than my rusty chrome ones, but not sure about the quality and performance of them. We'll have to wait and see.

As for the e-bike, a build isn't complete with reviews of the product right?
So I had a chance before the rain to ride the blue e-bike some more. I have still yet to use up my battery to low or even mid. I guess I just don't use the throttle that extensively. I find myself using it mostly for takeoff. I stop at every stop sign so pulling out through the intersection came take some time using pedal power alone. The throttle definitely helps. Once I get going, I use the throttle sparingly but still use it regularly.

TRACK:
I took the e-bike for a spin at the track and hounded down the first roadie I could fine. It took me about 1/6 of a mile to catch up to her. Even though she was slowing down to take sips of her water, she was a bit surprised that a hybrid bike with a rack ridden by some guy in jeans and a hooded sweater was passing her by. Haha. I tried no to do it too quickly, but yes. I passed her in no time and away I went. It wasn't as much to show off as it was to test the performance of the e-power vs a regular road bike on a track. I don't deny I had fun doing it though.

OFFROAD:
Since I was close to home, I decided it would be worth a try to purposefully go over gravel and rocks to see how well these cheap new tires worked and what it's like with e-power over this type of terrain. It's a bit freaky navigating around areas with 4" dips and gravel/rocks the size of large marbles. I managed to make it across a few blocks w/o harm to the tubes or tires. I didn't dare to top speed as this was my first attempt in uneven ground on a ebike, but I can imagine it could hit 17mph.

ONROAD:
This was my first time with the computer installed, so I kept my eye on it and I topped out at 20mph (exactly what the dealer estimated) on the flats w/o pedaling. Pedaling didn't get me much faster. It only pushed me at another 2mph at the most. I guess I'm just not that fast of a rider. I do ride recumbent trikes regularly so I should definitely have the leg strength to withstand hills and resistance from imperfect non-asphalt roads.

DOWNHILL:
As I mentioned before, the motor isn't strong enough nor was ever designed to be used downhill. As I coasted with all the extra weight of an 8lb battery + 8lb motor + rack, I fond myself reaching 23mph tops. No pedaling, just coasting. So the fact that I can hit 20mph on flats isn't so bad. Ideally, I'd be able to hit downhill speeds on flats - meaning the motor would take me to 23mph w/pedaling. While pedaling, I'm fairly close which puts me at ease that the motor's performing to what it should.

HEAT:
There is none. I even have the controller in a vented battery bag (the one that comes with the kit at Hightekbikes) and no problems. The motor doesn't get hot, barely even warm and the controller doesn't seem to change temperature based on my riding style as described above. So I'm very satisfied with this setup. I'm glad I was able to hide both components (battery/controller) in the bag for a full stealth look. Once the battery's had a chance to condition, I plan to take it up more hills and ride this thing more aggressively to really test its performance. Until then, I'm taking it easy and both components remain in good temperature.

ASSIST:
I don't normally just use throttle by itself. I like the fact that the motor's on a bike and that I can still get some exercise. I'm pedaling most of the time and find that the advantage of the bike being e-powered is simply that I can reach sweat speeds w/o sweating. That's great! I can wear whatever I want and not have to worry about smelling or feeling horrible when I get to my destination. Like one member put it, it's like having Superman behind you as you're punching the throttle. I'm liking this experience so far. Can't wait for the rain to go away so I can go for another ride.

More photos, mods and news to come.
 
From the visit count, I can tell some of you are at least browsing this site - perhaps regularly. My goal's to keep giving you new stuff to look at. Let's get some action going. Does anyone think I should have a mudguard on the front wheel? Purely aesthetic. Thoughts or recommendations?

My bike locks (yes, two) should be arriving in the mail this evening. I'll post some pics and a quick preliminary review. If not posted here, I'll at least have a link to my lock thread. There will definitely eventually be a photo there of how I mount it. My mounting bracket won't be in for another week or so at least. I'm excited to see the locks today when I get home though.

UPDATE:
This might've been the first time Amazon's ever failed me. It's 8:16pm and still no package. The ironic thing is that the tracking indicates that the package is sitting in the same city where I work! In transit, but not sure if it's literally moving on a truck or just on a shelf somewhere waiting for tomorrow's delivery. I've been getting up literally at every hint of a sound of a delivery truck - that's about 12 times in the past couple hours of me rushing to the window like a kid on Christmas morning waiting for Santa. Ugh, where's Santa???
 
Coming together real nice there buddy. I hadn't been here for awhile. No suprise Terry is OK, he always treated me real nice. Traded me two worn out controllers for a new on once. How do you beat that?

Get a front fender if you need it. But it will look better without one. Even in dry NM, I like one on my commuter for running through the puddles left by sprinkler systems and such. On the rear, I prefer a homemade fender. any kind of flat material will do, to make a wide cover under the rack keeping the battery dry. I cut one end of it narrower, and bend it around to cover the seat tube, keeping where I mount controllers free from mud spray.
 
Thanks for your input and compliment. Yes, the bike is coming together finally. It's been great. Just too bad I'm not able to park it anywhere not w/in arm's reach. The locks never came in last night. Looks like Amazon had a delay so I'm hoping they'll be in today. The tracking info says it's in the City being delivered. Hopefully I'll have a couple new early Christmas gifts at my doorstep when I get home.

As for the rear fender. I don't think I need one. The rack I have has a plate that the battery sits on. Rather than just a frame, it's a solid plate the width of the battery bag. It sorta acts like a fender in terms of protecting contents from splash. I'll leave the front fender out per your advice.
 
Okay, here are the photos as promised. The locks finally came in!

Introducing the Kryptonite Evolution Mini 5. Yes, the Mini 5. They also make a Mini 7 which is obviously slightly larger. I went with the baby size. Nice and compact. I knew to expect something small, but this thing is uber tiny. Not my iphone, but it barely fits in the opening.
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And it fits in the bag with the battery! Yup, it zips up okay. A bit snug, but it works:
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The second lock is more of a gimmick, but I surprisingly came across some pretty good reviews. $37 and 3 days later, it came to my door. The Masterlock Street Cuffs:
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Now for the mounting. Now that's an interesting proposal. I have some additional photos of methods I've tried out on my blog. I'm also posting them in a related thread here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33929&start=15
 
I gotta keep this bike secure somehow, right? Here's the lock mounted to the downtube:
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How's it look?
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BURNT MOTOR?
For the second time, I'm smelling some burnt smell as I'm riding. Is this the motor? Did I screw it up already? I pulled over to take a look an feel if anything was hot.

The controller was warm and the motor was sorta warm. The battery was warm too, but that's to be expected. Temperatures weren't extreme. It didn't seem like a big deal. This happened just after a hill climb which worries me. The motor works just fine though. I rode it another 5 minutes and let it breathe during my 1hr lunch break. I made it home fine, but in the last couple minutes of my ride, the motor started hesitating. It didn't run smoothly. It would move, stall, move and stall again - not stalling to a point where it would completely stop. It was just hesitant - not smooth. I let it rest and started again. It was fine from that point onward, but should I be concerned? Am I doing something wrong? I didn't use full throttle up the hill and I'm always pedaling.

Can someone please offer some advice or comments?
 
If the motor itself is never getting hot outside even after you've let it sit long enough for heat to soak thru the axle and covers, then I would suspect the smell and problem to be in connectors rather than motor. Probably phase connectors, possibly battery connectors.
 
Hmmm, that's a good thing b/c those can be easily replaced, right? What's the best way to figure it out? Should there be something visible that I can physically see to tell? Does this mean the gauge of wire isn't thick enough? Am I operating the motor too hard? What do you recommend I do? Thanks for your response by the way.
 
First just check the connectors. If theyre' getting hott enoughto smell, there may well be obvious sighns of that.

Often it is caused by arcing between connectors that are not mating properly, under high-current draw. Other times it is simply a poor connection, thus high resisstance, and so the contacts heat up and can make the plastic shells stinky like melty/burny plastic.

Wire is hardly ever the problem, but connecotrs and wher ewire enters them *is* a common issue. Poor crimps, or tension on the wires that pulls connectors apart or puts right-angle stresses on contacts at the crimp, which forces contacts to not mate flat (for non-round contacts), are the most common reaosns.
 
Thank you much. I'll take a closer look at it.
 
Dude...fantastic thread, great answers to excellent questions. I'm glad to see you are moving along with your conversion and happy to read the stories you are relating about tooling around on the bike!
 
Thanks man! Glad to know I'm not just writing and posting this stuff for myself (that's what my blog is for). Here's some newly uploaded photos from a few minutes ago. I can finally go night riding, sorta. Still no rear light though. Can't figure out a way to mount something to the bike. The rack is in the way and it has no light mounting plate. The deck also covers the rear frame where anything could possibly be mounted. Poor design?

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Don't get me going on the concept of "poor design". I stay constantly annoyed at the way lights and accessories are designed for bicycles, especially the low-cost ones. I think I know the lights you are trying out - they have a rubber band loop that holds them onto a vertical tube member, right?

I've successfully made rear light mounting surfaces by taking a small strip of aluminum folding it over the rearmost section of the metal "loop" that forms the upper flat surface. You fold it over and drill two holes (always using a piece of wood as a backstop). A small hole, 1/8" or so, for a small bolt and screw, up near the fold, to make a more secure attachment. Then a larger hole down toward the end of the "tongue" you have formed, to mount the light, reflector, etc. The resulting "bracket" is vertically oriented - you could do variations on it that are horizontal, and turn it into a "rear light tree" with turn signals, rear running/brake light, just like a motorcycle. I'm partial to working with sheet aluminum. It's lightweight, strong (mostly) and I have a few tools and experience to work with it.

So, I've read your blog postings about test riding the kits of various power, then the comparison of the 36v to 24v kits, and finally, after installation of your own, your experiences with the performance of the Hightechbikes kit. I think your posting on it was around the end of October.

So we're almost to December - I wanted to ask you a few questions as you get more and more experience with your new ebike:

1) Still, all's well with the kit?
Any component failures or problems?
Anything you've had to adjust or reconfigure?
2) Anything you've found out that makes the conversion perform better or worse?
3) Has there been anything come up in which you've had to contact your local vendor?
4) Overall, are you happy with the quality of the kit, and do you anticipate using it as-bought for the indefinite future?
(I guess what I'm wondering with that question is, if you are considering any battery/controller mods to the kit...)

Thank you thank you for all the information you've posted. You've kept me from having to pester the wise ones here. :)

JKB
 
Thanks for the tip. I might've beat you to it. After some frustration not being able to figure out how to mount the rear light, I went back downstairs to the garage and picked my brain a bit more and figured out a new method. I clipped the rear flashing bicycle light to the tongue or lip of the rear deck's deck. It's slightly angled but a lot better than being invisible where it was previously mounted on the seat post. The look of it is very clean (I'll post a pic later). To reinforce it, I drilled a hole into the light clip and ziptied it to the underside of the rack where there's a horizontal bar. I plan to put some heavy duty 3M tape behind the light too so it'll hold better to the deck.

In response to your questions:
1. Yes, all is well. As I mentioned, I did notice a burning smell but some have said it's the connectors and not the battery nor the motor which is good news. I rode is yesterday for 15 miles and no problems. No adjustments or reconfigurations were needed.

2. As for as making the conversion better or worse, I haven't really messed w/it since the initial installation. As you know, I bought all the components together from the same dealer, so there's no choices for picking and choosing anything - other than the controller. There was one with a higher amperage which I chose. It's available on the hightekbikes website. Ever since installing the kit though, there haven't been any modifications to the kit.

3. I contacted the local vendor, Hightekbikes for simple questions since I'm new to this. I asked him how long I should charge the battery for (overnight for the first 3-5 charges). How long should I wait to charge it or if I should do it immediately (30 minutes to allow the battery to cool if it's warm). I also sent Terry some pictures of my setup for him to verify that I installed the components correctly (where do the washers go relative to the other hardware in the kit for the rear wheel. pics on my blog). No real issues though. These were just general questions I had b/c I'm so new to this stuff.

4. Yes, very happy with the quality of the kit. I was surprised that the spokes were so thick! It looks like it's very strong. I have fairly sizable gauge spokes for my recumbent trike and this kit beats it in terms of girth. They're super thick - almost funny looking. Yes, I anticipate using it for the indefinite future. The only thing I'd do is get a new kit for speed and additional power. I've spent a lot already, so I won't be doing that anytime soon....I think. No plans for controller or battery mods. I just bought this kit less than a month ago, so I plan to use it as-is for awhile. My only mods are bike related and do not relate to the electronic components. New accessories, like lights, etc. My bike is pretty much done. I'm putting more attention on the white restoration bike.

Glad my posts have helped and thanks for taking a look at my blog. Sometimes I feel like I'm writing to myself which is fine. It's more of a log for me but I'm also glad that others can use it to their benefit. I have no regrets. I got what was looking for at the best price I could. Feel free to post, PM or email me if you have further questions or need additional clarifications on anything.


FUTURE CONVERSION:
My "second" conversion, if I ever get there would be something more powerful and would probably go on my white restoration bike that I'm still working on. What I really want to do though is to convert a foldable bike - something I can stick in the trunk. Parts for the Specialized Hardrock should be arriving within the next week or so. I ordered some stuff during the Black Friday "deals." I'd still want it fairly stealth. If anyone's got recommendations for stronger mini-motors than the one I have (I've searched and couldn't find any on my own), I'd be very excited to hear what my options are. Perhaps a mid-drive kit? Not sure. It'd be nice to try out a new type of drivetrain and learn about some RC battery setups. Something in the low 30mph or even high 20mph range would be awesome.

My current ride only hits 20mph even.
 
Met up with KMX on Sunday in Golden Gate Park to test out his bike. (thx KMX !!)
I been testing different rides here and there, trying to figure out what I want. (Still saving up for my first kit)
I brought my 24v standup scooter for him to try. :D

Well, I am impress with the kit. (its the Hightekbikes Mini Might gear motor, http://www.hightekbikes.com/rear-motor-kit.html )
The little gear motor have very good torque and smooth acceleraton,
I rode up some short hills off JFK drive and it was all a piece of cake, with the motor doing most of the work.
the steepest is a short road at 9%, guessing...

the one thing I didnt like is the throttle position,
the stock thumb throttle interferes with his twist-grip shifter, so KMX end up mounting further in (towards the stem) thus hard to reach.
not sure how to get around this...
mixing throttle and right shifter together in a very tight area...


I did try a 48v MAC gear motor a while back, that I really like... (got me up 10% grade, long climbs)
but for most casual riders, I think this is a great kit to start out on.
 
sk8norcal, thanks for your "ride report", and thanks to kmxtornado for giving you the chance for a test ride.

I'm going crazy guys. I've been needing to do a build something bad. I'll start another thread, similar to the one kmxtornado did (and was impressively successful with) and put out my specs, my mission, and see what the big brains on the board say back to me.

Thanks a TON kmxtornado, your journey has been awesome to read about....

JKB
 
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