KTM 200 exc goes electric

Nice, I am curious of how it turns out :wink:
It will sure be nice with some extra voltage.
Does your big brick of a controller have something like votols field weakening compensation?
I am struggling to find a controller for more power.
I would like to go 36s if I can get my hands on some batteries, but it seems hard to find a controller for it.

More amps on the same batteries would be interesting too, but that seems difficult too.
It seems like the em200 only does 570pA vs em150sp:s 540pA, so not much of an upgrade.
Asi Bac 8000 delivers the amps, but dosent seem to have anything like MTPA.
I am waiting for some reports, but so far it dosent seem to be it.

The votol em300 would be something for sure, to bad they couldn't make it work :(

Can someone make a controller that can do some serious amps, MTPA and 150V goddammit :roll:
 
j bjork said:
It seems like the em200 only does 570pA vs em150sp:s 540pA, so not much of an upgrade.
Click to expand...
This can and will be hacked. But I wouldn't expect more than 650-675A (it's still 30 fets in to220). There's one more downside of em200, temp coeff's can't be changed...

Asi Bac 8000 delivers the amps, but dosent seem to have anything like MTPA
Click to expand...
It's confirmed, ASI BAC doesn't have MTPA implemented, which means all kinds of ipm motors will perform underpowered (qs138*, me1616, 1507 included iirc). This may change in the future though.

I have a sevcon s4 waiting to be dialed in but... I don't think there's mtpa either. Nonetheless I'll do it for 28s, eventually.
 
I think it is odd, there are motors available. But no controllers :?
And qs seems to have their 180 90h motor more or less finished (maybe, who knows?), but dont seem to release it as they dont have a controller for it. They dont seem to sell it without controller either though, so I wonder how finished it really is.
I think they should wire it for 6 poles, and use 2 em150sp:s
 
The APT9660 has detailed flux weakening setting so if you have a dyno it could be halfway decently mapped to MTPA.

Buuuut.. my controllers flux weakening is not fully functional. Frustrating. Maybe newer models will have it, or if you require a 100% functional controller from QS motor before purchase.

It works well with the 138 70h anyway. I’ll make a noload test up to full voltage and plot it. That’ll show how good it works on higher rpms
 
larsb said:
The APT9660 has detailed flux weakening setting so if you have a dyno it could be halfway decently mapped to MTPA.
Click to expand...
And this is when you're putting the rig on a dyno, the dyno, your dyno... werent you building one? Anyway unfortunately the id lookup table of apt96600 didnt seem to work when I tried it last time.
 
j bjork said:
I think it is odd, there are motors available. But no controllers :?
And qs seems to have their 180 90h motor more or less finished (maybe, who knows?), but dont seem to release it as they dont have a controller for it. They dont seem to sell it without controller either though, so I wonder how finished it really is.
I think they should wire it for 6 poles, and use 2 em150sp:s
Click to expand...


I am wondering about using a 6 pole motor in my kdx200 conversion. Is this a 6 pole motor and do controllers like nucular, votol work on such motors? https://www.ebay.com/itm/ME0913-Brushless-DC-Permanent-Magnet-Motor-24-96-Volts/270770952261?epid=1434196840&hash=item3f0b34d845:g:3jgAAOxyW7tRf8RS
 
6 pole is probably not the right term, sorry I used it. It is misleading to magnetic poles.
What I mean is 6phase or maybe better 2x3phase or what to call it.

No, that seems to be normal 3 phase.
I doubt that those motors are a good choice for a dirtbike with their open design and fan cooling.
Thats something I like with the qs motors, they are closed watertight.
 
larsb said:
Yeah, i lost interest a bit. Too many projects at home and too much pressure at work and now the efoil fun took over.. :D it’d help if i had a controller that could be mapped without too much hassle.
Click to expand...

I am probably missing something because I dont have enough knowledge of electric motors, but why cant they be mapped like an ice engine?

3gRbzFq.jpg


I mean, you just chose a basic setting what kind of motor it is and some things like that.
After that you have a working setup, with settings close to what you want.
Then you can fine tune angles just like in that ignition table for an ice engine.
There are a bunch of temp adjustment tables and things like that if they are needed too.
 
I was thinking that those motors have two separate stators, each 3 phase that you could hook separate controllers onto. Arlo might have done 2 controllers with a Zero motor, which i think is the same design, albeit waterproof. obviously, my understanding is lacking here :)
 
@j bjork: That is true but the problem is that APT96600 is only semi-functional chinese crap.

I think it might work in the OEM chinese version and then it’s destroyed by the restrictions programmed before sold to us commoners. At least that’s what would make the varying/faulty functionality understandable.
 
thoroughbred said:
I was thinking that those motors have two separate stators, each 3 phase that you could hook separate controllers onto. Arlo might have done 2 controllers with a Zero motor, which i think is the same design, albeit waterproof. obviously, my understanding is lacking here :)
Click to expand...

Okay, that would be very good. If they are parallel now the timing should should be right for 2 controllers on the same hall sensors then, hopefully 2 controllers can share signals without problems..
I have seen a zero motor that has been split for 6 phases for sale, but I have also seen the prizes they want for them :confused:
 
larsb said:
@j bjork: That is true but the problem is that APT96600 is only semi-functional chinese crap.

I think it might work in the OEM chinese version and then it’s destroyed by the restrictions programmed before sold to us commoners. At least that’s what would make the varying/faulty functionality understandable.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand what you mean.
My comment was more on controllers in general. Often it is very limited what you can do. It is only a few basic settings, and that is it.
Or there is sevcon where you need special programming cables etc. and "no one" understands how to set it up.

I think it should be less parameters in setting up an electric motor (but I might be wrong) then an ice engine with all sorts of different injectors, different fuels, different ignition systems, different behaviors from different camshafts and everything else. Overcharging with blower or turbo etc.
But still on a system like maxxecu in the picture, or a bunch of others you are up and running in a few hours. A highly tuned engine will sure take a lot longer before it is fully adjusted. But a more basic engine is soon "almost there".

Easy to understand menus, and charts for just about anything you might need. If you have a sensor for something that is not supported you can set it up yourself an a chart.
 
I agree but it isn't an expectation that electric drive systems are offered like this to consumers so this isn't an adopted option for many. It would be great if we could simply adjust the controllers. It also boils down to liability and warranty and the OEM is not willing to honour their product warranty if they let you run round changing settings. That's very much an aftermarket thing where 3rd parties have to hack the controls to allow these changes and again they are offering a service so also liable for failures and limit how much they change. But not really let the owners have a go.

Cheers
Tyler

 
I dont really buy the warranty and liability aspect when it comes to aftermarket, oem sure.
The systems should still have limits and safety functions that cant be overridden.
Stuff like this is usually sold as "racing parts" around here, with limited warranty anyway.
But I guess it is just a time and demand thing.

The early aftermarket systems for ice engines wasn't very impressive either.
It took a long time for them to become what they are today, and then it was systems developed in the west.

These systems often come from china, and they are probably more interested in making something that is good enough to sell, then to make something that is better than everything else.
 
I think it’s not that easy. Each system has varying inductance and resistance (heat, saturation) and varying errors in the sensor system ( both for position as well as for voltage and current.) based on these factors controller needs to supply the best opening time for each set of FETs. Then also bemf and most other factors are rpm dependent and temperature dependent which also affects correct firing time. ICE and electric is more similar than we think in this way.
 
I agree larsb. And bjork. The western offerings are like we wish but more costly. Curtis and Sevcon are good examples. Time will change things. Also modifying recycled OEM parts will develop like we already see, as availability increases.

Cheers
Tyler


 
They are not just difficult, they are big too.
305x170 :shock:
116v max, so up to 28s if charged to 4,14v max.
660pA peak for 10 sec.
It is probably enough on a light motorcycle.

I did a 0-100+ kph run on the street today.

pfr5Iiz.png


At least I got some amp readings, I wanted some performance readings too but:

hUrTE32.jpg


I got a reading for a second sometimes :(
I cant say that I see the problem:

OrYJbXf.jpg
 
j bjork said:
They are not just difficult, they are big too.
305x170 :shock:
116v max, so up to 28s if charged to 4,14v max.
660pA peak for 10 sec.
Click to expand...

Nope, Sevcon is rated in RMS, I believe it's applicable to boost also.

RPM -> KPH - that's with the old gearing iirc? PM me the logs, I'll give you the time. Tire circumference atm? BTW very nice IR. Did you set 400bA (bypassing the bms)?
 
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