Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

[Cowardlyduck]

Interesting comments about the phase runner after I've been running mine at 60A Batt - 96A Phase for about 3 years/15000km+ without issue. This is with a RH212 and the phaserunner is heatsinked to the aluminium of my BikeE frame so maybe that helps a lot. I also bog it down a lot climbing steep/rough off-road tracks regularly so it's not like I'm babying it at all.
I wonder if pairing the phaserunner with the RH212 vs something like the Leaf makes a difference everything else being equal?

Cheers

 

[neptronix]

I think your older phaserunner model allows you to boost the phase amps and battery amps more than a modern one. The 'fast' RH212 is kind of a slow wind compared to a 4T, plus you have a 20" wheel, and aerodynamic advantage... so i think results on an upright with 26-29" wheels might differ due to both lower aerodynamic drag and smaller wheels.

RH212 is a particularly torquey motor too, actually produces more peak torque than the big leaf, and also more torque per amp thanks to the diameter.

 

[yantra yatra]

Appears to be a clone of the Sabvoton SVMC7280, but without the Bluetooth option

3000W 4000W 80A snow bike controller

Convert your snow fat bike to ebike with leaf 3000W 4000W 80A electric brushless motor controller.

www.leafbike.com

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000833927042.html

I ordered this one,
2000W ~ 5000W programmable controller.

which has a different title, and has the Bluetooth option and display. But may be the same as the ‘fatbike/snow controller’. It comes out a fair bit cheaper than Spintend and easier to use hopefully. Apparently works for regen but not sure about torque sensing.

 

[E-HP]

I ordered this one,
2000W ~ 5000W programmable controller.

which has a different title, and has the Bluetooth option and display. But may be the same as the ‘fatbike/snow controller’. It comes out a fair bit cheaper than Spintend and easier to use hopefully. Apparently works for regen but not sure about torque sensing.

That would be a SVMC7280 v2 (or clone), with usb Bluetooth dongle. If it is, I doubt it has PAS at all. It does have a three speed switch though .

I think only the MM series supports PAS.

 

[yantra yatra]

Oh Damn - I will check that, thank you

 

[yantra yatra]

Is 4t enough to get up to around 70km/h on a fully charged 52v battery (26in wheels)? Peter says 4t does 65km/h on the flat with 52v, so at around 58 I guess it should go around 70km/h. Do people find that is plenty of speed for general riding around? I think 3t is probably too fast a winding and will sacrifice a bit of hill climbing ability for the same power consumption, I didn’t quite get my head around the technical details above but that was my understanding. Prob better to go 4t than 3t

 

[yantra yatra]

That would be a SVMC7280 v2 (or clone), with usb Bluetooth dongle. If it is, I doubt it has PAS at all. It does have a three speed switch though .

I think only the MM series supports PAS.

at the product link I posted it says 1:1 pedal assist function. Not sure what that means? But seems to have PAS

 

[yantra yatra]

PAS works on the controller I posted

 

[E-HP]

interesting to see what brand it is and what the software looks like.

 

[E-HP]

Hey looks like the -M V2 version has PAS!

SVMC7280-M(V2)|SVMC-M Models

Sabvoton controller SVMC7280-M V2 80A is sine wave programmable design as sabvoton controller,sine wave hall controller,2000w 80A sine wave controller#electric bike motor controller,electric bicycle controller,risun motor Controller

mqcontroller.com

Looks like a newer model since I did research when moving to 20S, after 2019.
The Sabvoton version is mentioned in some ES threads

RisunMotor/Sabvoton SVMC7280-M controller

Hello, I just purchased a "hallomotor" controller with TFT -- tag says it's a Sabvoton SVMC7280-M, though the TFT says RisunMotor when it starts up. Anyway, there is some info out here on them which is helpful, but I have run into an issue that I am hoping someone has addressed before. After...

endless-sphere.com

But the V2 could be even newer.

 

[yantra yatra]

interesting to see what brand it is and what the software looks like.

It works the MQCON app, so assume it is Sabvoton

 

[gone]

how much was the controller in the deal? never tried a sabvoton but i've read a bunch of people having reliability issues with them. what about a fardriver? i got a 80/280 amp one on aliexpress for my mxus 3k, the cheaper transparent one without potting. worked out about £75 delivered i think. fardrivers don't have PAS though as far as i know, but i don't use that.

 

[boytitan]

I don't get it. Its been a decade and the bbshd is still the best 1500 watt mid drive, and this is still the best 1500watt dd hub motor. Why is no one making more high power ebike motors. In the span of a few years theres been more than a handful of sur ron style motors.

 

[Chalo]

I don't get it. Its been a decade and the bbshd is still the best 1500 watt mid drive, and this is still the best 1500watt dd hub motor. Why is no one making more high power ebike motors.

It's like you think electric motors are immature tech or something. They're not. There's also not very much money per unit in manufacturing them, and a market that strongly favors cheap goods even if they're imperfect.

If you want to wish for one real improvement in bicycle motors, let it be rejection of the stupid flatted axle for torque anchoring. All the Chinese makers could excite their whole market just by doing what Heinzmann was doing over 25 years ago.

Me, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[lnanek]

I don't get it. Its been a decade and the bbshd is still the best 1500 watt mid drive, and this is still the best 1500watt dd hub motor. Why is no one making more high power ebike motors. In the span of a few years theres been more than a handful of sur ron style motors.

I don't even know why 1500 watt motors are made. They are illegal for bikes in most countries and seem too small for mopeds. Seems like a bad idea for a business to make them since you can't sell as many compared to a product that's legal in more areas, so has a bigger market.

 

[boytitan]

It's like you think electric motors are immature tech or something. They're not. There's also not very much money per unit in manufacturing them, and a market that strongly favors cheap goods even if they're imperfect.

If you want to wish for one real improvement in bicycle motors, let it be rejection of the stupid flatted axle for torque anchoring. All the Chinese makers could excite their whole market just by doing what Heinzmann was doing over 25 years ago.

Me, I'm not holding my breath.

I know electric motors are mature tech and the problem wasn't electric motors but mainly charging infrastructure, then batteries I still expect more.

 

[The Toecutter]

I want to see a PMDC motor with 95%+ efficiency that is at least as capable of continuous power like the current Leafbike 1500W, but with significantly less mass, less cogging torque losses, that uses stouter axles. Or perhaps a new axial flux or switched reluctance design that does the same, with an open source control system.

 

[Chalo]

I want to see a PMDC motor with 95%+ efficiency that is at least as capable of continuous power like the current Leafbike 1500W, but with significantly less mass, less cogging torque losses, that uses stouter axles. Or perhaps a new axial flux or switched reluctance design that does the same, with an open source control system.

For a market size of... what? How many will pay extra for 95% instead of 90% efficiency, a couple kg of weight reduction, axles that work with even fewer bike frames than 14x10mm flatted?

Amortize the development and production cost of making the improvements across that many units, any you'll pay at least that much extra per unit (but probably more).

Most folks will have a look at the price and get a Leaf 1500W instead.

 

[amberwolf]

axles that work with even fewer bike frames than 14x10mm flatted?

FWIW, stouter axles could be made without making them larger--they could even be smaller, using regular bicycle axle sizes, but making them from "real steel" with the proper metallurgy and manufacturing methods, including not designing stress risers into them, not using flatted axles, etc.

Wouldn't make them cheaper, but would make them fit more bikes better.

 

[The Toecutter]

Amortize the development and production cost of making the improvements across that many units, any you'll pay at least that much extra per unit (but probably more).

Most folks will have a look at the price and get a Leaf 1500W instead.

Everything depends upon how many units are produced over how many years. It's conceivable that the increase in cost could be only $50 per unit if enough motors are produced fast enough, which in turn will provide enough of an improvement that people would consider such a minor cost increase worth it. It's also conceivable that it could cost into the 4-figures if the volume is low enough. The production volume will determine the cost which will in turn determine how many sell, and also what the payback period of the investment is. For the hobbyist market where fast custom ebikes are a common sight, this motor would have no competition, regardless of price.

Personally, I'd pay 3x as much for such a motor if produced in low volume. For the kind of build I want to do, the benefit would be too much to ignore.

Grin's All-Axle motors are selling well just on the novelty of integrated torquearms and quality finish, in spite of their expense. They aren't even as efficient as a Leaf.

Leaf themselves could make these improvements to its own motor lineup. There are a lot of variables that determine when it will pay off and what the price will have to be.

 

[yantra yatra]

I think bad policies and over regulation are probably mostly responsible for lack of development. If motors were legal and infrastructure and policy settings in place to allow them, then there are a lot of improvements that could be made. At the same time, Surrons are not legal for street use but are commonly out there. However there is probably a bigger off-road use (so there’s more development despite their illegality for road use for the most part). So I think it’s poor government interference that is holding back what could be very helpful developments. 3kw ebikes would be great.

 

[Rix]

I don't even know why 1500 watt motors are made. They are illegal for bikes in most countries and seem too small for mopeds. Seems like a bad idea for a business to make them since you can't sell as many compared to a product that's legal in more areas, so has a bigger market.

Yah I know how you feel, "1500 watt motors" are so puny, and no more legal than my old 11,000 peak watt home built Alpha with a modified MXUS4504 good for 59mph. So if the industry is making controllers to feed 1500 watts into 1500 watt rated motors, they might as well be making 15,000 watt motors. Yah!

 

[neptronix]

I want a 1500w motor because my area doesn't have bike lane or any enforcement on electric bikes.
You either do 36mph on the 35mph road or you have extremely angry drivers behind you and you may find yourself in serious danger.
You can either chose to build a moped type bike that can still be pedaled or give up bicycling altogether.

I'd prefer a less powerful bike, but i refuse to give up bicycling.

Everyone's legal and road environment differs. I think the 1500w motor became less popular because places like California, USA, and a lot of Europe started cracking down on high powered bikes recently.

Meanwhile people here don't even know what an ebike is, see a guy pedaling at a super high speed doing 30mph up a steep hill and think, the guy must be really fit..

 

[The Toecutter]

Before installing my Leafbike 1500W in my coroplast-bodied velomobile, I was pulled over by police for doing 45 mph, entirely under my own leg muscles coupled with some help from gravity.

These laws are retarded. Whether I have a motor or not and regardless of how many Watts it is capable of, it makes no difference with regard to the amount of risk posed to me or other vehicles while riding it, other than harassment from government when I'm not doing anything to anyone.

I use my motor mostly for hill climbs. It reduces the speed differential between me and traffic.

I'm all for getting rid of vehicle registration and licenses altogether, since any Boobus Americanus can legally pilot a 9,000 lb rolling codpiece of an SUV and then generally be left alone by police while staring at their ironically-named smart device instead looking at the road.

 

[amberwolf]

Meanwhile people here don't even know what an ebike is, see a guy pedaling at a super high speed doing 30mph up a steep hill and think, the guy must be really fit..

half the people that talk to me about the sb cruiser trike tell me i should put a motor on it