LightningRods mid drive kit

[nukezero]

I would be happy to post a thread, youtube video, when I get my build up and discuss setup. The LR kit will go on my 2013 Electra Townie 21speed. The bike is agreed between LightningRod and Ito be the perfect candidate for e-conversion. There are some concerns like you have and I have with terminology. Many of which is like "reduction gearing", primary, secondary drive, etc.etc. Shafts, and freewheels. It's like holy cow, there are so much more components to this mid-drive. With the Bafang kit that I have on my girlfriend's Townie, it's just simple.

One thing that I like about LR's kit is that it has the potential to run 2-chainrings. I much love to have a 38T and 48T in the front. One thing I need to figure out is the derailleur has enough clearance. Second is whether or not I can modify the derailleur and the shifter to operate in 2 shifts only, even though it has 3shifts mode. I wouldn't want the chain to be pushed off the chainring going 30mph! Can you imagine that...

 

[emaayan]

Starting F.A.Q (from memory and imagination, so anything could be wrong , i'm just providing a template)

Q: Give me a number! how fast will it go? how far? how strong?
A: while each setup is individual and dependent on the controller and battery (which we do not provide) , we have recorded cases of 80 kph and range of (fill in the blanks), the recommended rating for this motor is around 2200 watts, however it can go up to 3000w

Q: what type of warranty do you provide?
A: lifetime warrenty (just kidding, again TBD),however we will not provide warranty on the motor if you decide to source your own controller other then our own (matching phases and halls can be risky)

Q: i just broke part x, how long will i have to wait for a new one?
A: we stock of all major components so it's mostly shipping dependent.

Q: what bikes will it Fit?
A: the kit is designed to fit majority of standard bikes, without any special modifications to the kit or the bikes

Q: what's the lead time for the kit
A: currently it's a 3 weeks waiting period, but we're working on shortning that

Q: i ordered the kit and discovered it won't fit my current bike, what do i do?
A: good questions (TBD)

Q: do you make custom kits for special bikes
A: we definitely plan to! , but not in the near future.

Q: do you have any distributors
A: not at this time

Q: do you ship internationally.
A: yes

 

[Wishes]

I would be happy to post a thread, youtube video, when I get my build up and discuss setup. The LR kit will go on my 2013 Electra Townie 21speed. The bike is agreed between LightningRod and Ito be the perfect candidate for e-conversion. There are some concerns like you have and I have with terminology. Many of which is like "reduction gearing", primary, secondary drive, etc.etc. Shafts, and freewheels. It's like holy cow, there are so much more components to this mid-drive. With the Bafang kit that I have on my girlfriend's Townie, it's just simple.

One thing that I like about LR's kit is that it has the potential to run 2-chainrings. I much love to have a 38T and 48T in the front. One thing I need to figure out is the derailleur has enough clearance. Second is whether or not I can modify the derailleur and the shifter to operate in 2 shifts only, even though it has 3shifts mode. I wouldn't want the chain to be pushed off the chainring going 30mph! Can you imagine that...

Usually you can lock the maximum travel of your derailleur via screws on the side of it. I use a 5 speed cassette with a 7 speed shifter, I just restricted its travel so it does not drop off the sprocket even if put the shifter into a gear that is not there. The same can be done with the front derailleurs I believe.

Wishes

 

[samsavvas]

One thing that I like about LR's kit is that it has the potential to run 2-chainrings. I much love to have a 38T and 48T in the front. One thing I need to figure out is the derailleur has enough clearance. Second is whether or not I can modify the derailleur and the shifter to operate in 2 shifts only, even though it has 3shifts mode. I wouldn't want the chain to be pushed off the chainring going 30mph! Can you imagine that...

I haven't seen the LR kit and don't know the chainring spacing you end up with. If you find that even with an indexed 3 speed front shifter you can't get the chain to shift between rings properly, I'd suggest you just find yourself a friction thumbie which will work perfectly OK. I have several bikes - every single one has thumbies (even the one with an IGH) - far more reliable than 'click' shifters, even when set to index.

As someone has already pointed out, fiddlin' with the set screws on either front or rear derailleurs can solve just about any problem! You may also need to ensure that there's no slack in your cable so you are getting the full range of 'swing'.

Savvas.

 

[LightningRods]

I haven't seen the LR kit and don't know the chainring spacing you end up with. If you find that even with an indexed 3 speed front shifter you can't get the chain to shift between rings properly, I'd suggest you just find yourself a friction thumbie which will work perfectly OK. I have several bikes - every single one has thumbies (even the one with an IGH) - far more reliable than 'click' shifters, even when set to index.

The two factors involved, as a much better bicycle mechanic than I explained to me, are chainring spacing and derailleur stop adjustment. There is an ideal chainring spacing for different rear sprocket counts. As you would expect higher count chainrings have tighter spacing. The click derailleur on your bike is set for that same spacing. So whatever spacing the stock chainwheels have on your bike, that is the spacing you should use on the 104mm BCD chainrings that you attach to my 219 adapter plate. The spacing between the outer 219 driven sprocket and the two inner bicycle sprockets is not critical because you will never shift between them.

Many factory bikes now have both front and rear chainwheel assemblies that are one piece. Thankfully we can still get separate chainwheels and spacers. They're still commonly available at any decent bike shop. When I took the chainwheel assy from my Specialized hard tail in they set me up with 4.5mm spacers for the new separate chainwheels.

Technical illustration has been a big part of my living. I'll do my best to be an information resource on all of this material. It's not really that hard to understand, there are just lots of bits to keep track of. I need to get this first batch of kits finished first. Talk about a lot of bits to keep track of...

 

[nukezero]

I haven't seen the LR kit and don't know the chainring spacing you end up with. If you find that even with an indexed 3 speed front shifter you can't get the chain to shift between rings properly, I'd suggest you just find yourself a friction thumbie which will work perfectly OK. I have several bikes - every single one has thumbies (even the one with an IGH) - far more reliable than 'click' shifters, even when set to index.

The two factors involved, as a much better bicycle mechanic than I explained to me, are chainring spacing and derailleur stop adjustment. There is an ideal chainring spacing for different rear sprocket counts. As you would expect higher count chainrings have tighter spacing. The click derailleur on your bike is set for that same spacing. So whatever spacing the stock chainwheels have on your bike, that is the spacing you should use on the 104mm BCD chainrings that you attach to my 219 adapter plate. The spacing between the outer 219 driven sprocket and the two inner bicycle sprockets is not critical because you will never shift between them.

Many factory bikes now have both front and rear chainwheel assemblies that are one piece. Thankfully we can still get separate chainwheels and spacers. They're still commonly available at any decent bike shop. When I took the chainwheel assy from my Specialized hard tail in they set me up with 4.5mm spacers for the new separate chainwheels.

Technical illustration has been a big part of my living. I'll do my best to be an information resource on all of this material. It's not really that hard to understand, there are just lots of bits to keep track of. I need to get this first batch of kits finished first. Talk about a lot of bits to keep track of...

Good points indeed. Unfortunately, I have those integrated click shifters with brake handles. I actually like it. The brake handle is higher quality than the Wuxing crap that came with the bafang kit. I would really like to stay with the click shifters if I can.

Also, lightningrod, can you post pictures of this 219 adapter plate so I can get an idea of how it would be mounted and start searching for chainrings? Oh, what does everyone think about FSA chain rings?

 

[Wishes]

Are you guys seriously discussing the AFT drive in LR's thread?

 

[Lenk42602]

Are you guys seriously discussing the AFT drive in LR's thread?

They are not any more.

For anyone posting in this thread (or any other thread) - If you refuse to stay on topic, your posts will be deleted, and you will be warned. 3 consecutive warnings constitute a BAN from Endless Sphere Forum.

This web forum has been around since 2007, and in the last several years there has been an increase in off topic chatter that dilutes forum content to the point that searching for any viable information, on any topic, requires wading through nonrelated dialogue by people that do not respect their fellow forum members.

Please, stay on topic.

 

[samsavvas]

The two factors involved, as a much better bicycle mechanic than I explained to me, are chainring spacing and derailleur stop adjustment. There is an ideal chainring spacing for different rear sprocket counts. As you would expect higher count chainrings have tighter spacing. The click derailleur on your bike is set for that same spacing. So whatever spacing the stock chainwheels have on your bike, that is the spacing you should use on the 104mm BCD chainrings that you attach to my 219 adapter plate. The spacing between the outer 219 driven sprocket and the two inner bicycle sprockets is not critical because you will never shift between them..

Good points indeed. Unfortunately, I have those integrated click shifters with brake handles. I actually like it. The brake handle is higher quality than the Wuxing crap that came with the bafang kit. I would really like to stay with the click shifters if I can.

I'm sorry - I didn't mean to come across with a lecture. I should qualify what I've said above by saying that I've not used click shifters of any description for years, simply because I can't be bothered with adjusting them and because friction works (for me) much better - more quiet, more reliable and more accurate over the service life of chains, rings and cables. And I am yet to find affordable integrated brake/click shifter set-ups that are as high quality as Suntour/Shimano thumbies (set to friction) combined with either new (and cheap) Shimano levers or similar from Tektro etc. The only relevance I'd suggest for my comments with regard to LR's very nice kit is that if 'click' shifting across the gap between the front rings proves difficult, don't overlook the advantages of friction shifting. I use it very successfully on a couple of e-bikes and as long as you have the derailleur stops set right it works really well.

Incidentally em3ev (and a couple of other vendors) sell a kit to convert regular brake levers to e-bike levers via a 'remote' cable sensor. And I note that Tektro have now come out with a whole family of high quality e-bike levers. So our options are growing!

Savvas

 

[emaayan]

i know this is me probably thinking ahead of myself, but i'm posting here cause i'm assuming LR has way too much on his hands right now to think about this, but eventually (especially if he's selling just the parts, and even more if he's taking lots of orders), dude's gonna need a webstore platform for all of it. am i right?

 

[nukezero]

i know this is me probably thinking ahead of myself, but i'm posting here cause i'm assuming LR has way too much on his hands right now to think about this, but eventually (especially if he's selling just the parts, and even more if he's taking lots of orders), dude's gonna need a webstore platform for all of it. am i right?

he has a website...

 

[emaayan]

no, that's a collection of gif images, i mean a proper purchase platform, where you can select a the parts/kits you want and use paypal or credit cards..

 

[LightningRods]

no, that's a collection of gif images, i mean a proper purchase platform, where you can select a the parts/kits you want and use paypal or credit cards..

I completely agree. But "eventually" is the key word. I have a frightening amount of cash going out for parts inventory, tools and supplies right now. My focus is to meet current demand and to produce the best possible product in a timely manner. I'll worry about increasing my sales if and when I can produce more kits than there is demand for.

Motors arrived last week. The largest sheet metal order I've ever placed will arrive in my shop next week. I designed and ordered all of my usual parts plus 83mm lower sheets, 100mm lower sheets, sprocket guards, a pulley guard, and several one off sheets for specific customers. I've also completely redesigned the 219 driver to make it stronger and have less runout, upgraded my jackshaft axle to 12mm diameter hardened steel with no 11mm section (where the GNG axle usually bends) and switched to a wider and stronger lathe bored 3/4" steel bore adapter. On the primary side I'm switching to zinc Zamak 3 alloy for the driver pulley and will be lathe boring those for either 12mm motor shafts or sliding onto the GNG 14T pulley. I am doing my best to make everything as perfect as possible before I start shipping in volume.

The first kits will begin shipping next week. They'll ship in the order received. I have a backlog of orders stretching back for months, people who just wanted to help me get started by throwing some cash down. They will get their kits first with my thanks. Watch for an upcoming test of my kit on http://www.electricbike.com .

 

[scorpionice]

sun is up...waiting...

 

[LightningRods]

sun is up...waiting...

I know buddy, it's sunny here too. I have a new bike and the prototype L-R kit to put on it. No time. I'll be doing a build thread as soon as I move the red hot kits and parts out the door. My e-mail inbox is on fire!

 

[emaayan]

sounds like your'e giving birth to LightningRod 2.0

naturally i meant when things get more stable. but the rub here, is that as long as your take lead point on creating, designing, the kits, and as long as you are a single individual, you won't have time to worry about other stuff, unless the volume order subsides, which is .. well... basically .. a bad thing on it's own..

so in parallel, i'm trying to enlist people through this thread additional help, folks who may know webstores, or have used them in the past, how to set them up, how to use them, that's why i created the template for the F.A.Q here in the hope it will be filled and increase later (still hoping), that's why i think more then one individual should post a YT on them opening and assembling the kit. and at least SOMEONE (hey it could be me) create a pdf of assembly instructions. to cut through the leg work.

 

[Danschutz]

Lightingrods, I'm new to all this but have read this thread twice now and I'm convinced. If I prepaid an order now what is the estimated time I would get your kit?

Thank!

Dan L.

 

[emaayan]

can anyone tell me if my current BB is big enough for LR, see it's a 136 mm thun i got from ebike.ca, and i wanna keep it, but what confuses me is that LR comes with 148 mm BB

i'm planning on using his adapter and 104 bcd with a freewheel and TA crank arms. http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/left-hand-crank-arm-ta-specialites-170-mm-black-prod23210/

 

[nukezero]

Look what came in the mail for me today! Lyen's 12 FET LightningRod Edition Mark II controller. I already figured out a mounting location on it. But I don't know how to mount it though. Does anyone know how to mount it as close to the tube as possible? Don't say it, zip ties?!?!?

I like how the controller has all the corresponding connectors and he included the connector pins. Oh, and I will be using the crappy hidden brake wire sensor (HWBS) that I got off aliexpress.

Next week, I'm planning to pick up the HPC Elite 52v 13Ah Li-NMC pouch cells (capable of 65A) (7.8 lbs) . Of course that number is probably grossly exagerated. They're giving me a decent discount by avoiding tax, paying cash, and local pick-up.

I chose this battery after weeks of searching and came to the conclusion that, em3ev is my first choice but it would be impossible to ship the battery back if there were issues. Plus most of his batteries are only good for 2-3C. I feel like 1/3 of the money is just paying his 3% paypal and outrageous shipping fees. Everybody else's battery stateside is expensive and not adequate with the C rating.(allcelltech). I love those new triangle mounted packs like lectric-cycles, but his panasonic 18650pf cells I'm afraid are not going to be up to the task of 30A continuous; his battery is also $800+ now.

Also, I live in a condominium, so I can't use hobbyking lipo's in the garage. If a fire goes, I'd be taking 3 neighbors down with me. And that would not be a pretty sight.


Now all that I need now is Mr. LightningRod to send me the motor!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[videb10]

Hi everyone! My name is Vincent and I am from Québec city in canada. My english is not perfect but I'll do my best! I am new in the field of ebike but I red a lot (around 30 hours) since a couple week. After reading this thread, i decided that the best kit for me would be the one lightningrod makes so I already ordered it from him. I will also use the controller from Lyenn (12FET) an a cycle analysist V3. From now, I assume that I still have to choose a bike for the conversion an a battery kit. Since I am a newbie, I wants the conversion to be as much bolt on as possible (if its not, i dont mind going to bike shop and pay them for the job but i dont want to wait for custom pieces...). So now comes my questions. What would be the best downhill bike for an easy conversion? I am currently looking at a giant glory (http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1431167/) but i wonder if the s shape frame would cause problems for the mounting of the kit. I would also like to know what would be the best option for batteries assuming that i want POWER as long as the derailleur and the chain can hold it... I was loooking for the HPC kit but they are pretty expensive... Any advices? Thanks a lot an i have to say that world of ebike is amazing
Vincent

 

[Wishes]

Hi everyone! My name is Vincent and I am from Québec city in canada. My english is not perfect but I'll do my best! I am new in the field of ebike but I red a lot (around 30 hours) since a couple week. After reading this thread, i decided that the best kit for me would be the one lightningrod makes so I already ordered it from him. I will also use the controller from Lyenn (12FET) an a cycle analysist V3. From now, I assume that I still have to choose a bike for the conversion an a battery kit. Since I am a newbie, I wants the conversion to be as much bolt on as possible (if its not, i dont mind going to bike shop and pay them for the job but i dont want to wait for custom pieces...). So now comes my questions. What would be the best downhill bike for an easy conversion? I am currently looking at a giant glory (http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1431167/) but i wonder if the s shape frame would cause problems for the mounting of the kit. I would also like to know what would be the best option for batteries assuming that i want POWER as long as the derailleur and the chain can hold it... I was loooking for the HPC kit but they are pretty expensive... Any advices? Thanks a lot an i have to say that world of ebike is amazing
Vincent

Weclome to the forum Vincent. You should go to your profile and fill out your location information. It is part of the forum rules

The giant's triangle will not be a problem to connect this motor kit to it. Just measure it to make sure you order the right bottom plate length. The only thing about Giants that I would say is not pratical is that you cannot use the space in the triangle for much. No room to set up a battery and barely enough room to squeeze in the controller. But the motor and brackets will install properly on that.

Wishes

 

[turbo1889]

One question for LR (or anyone else who has some of his improved lower mounting plates). The lower mounting plates he sells that attach the motor to the bike's bottom bracket. Is the motor position "flip-able" in them so the motor shaft sticks out to the right instead of the left?

On my original belt drive GNG it looks like the way the motor mounts it should work but I don't want to tear my drive down to check and even if I did just because it works with the original GNG mount plates doesn't 100% mean it would with LR's improved plates.

Reason I ask is because if it is easily fip-able, now that he is switching over to the exact same 12mm for the jackshaft and bore on the #219 sprocket adapter instead of the 11mm step down of original GNG it then becomes possible to do a single stage #219 reduction straight off the motor to the crank doing away with the jackshaft. Running a low voltage 4s system (only one company I know of makes a compatible e-bike controller that will run that low of voltage but they do exist).

And then, Vala !!!, you now have a 200-watt or 250-watt Aussie or Euro spec. legal LR system depending on how many amps you run at the low 4s voltage. Could be a clean smooth quite commuter option. Not to mention that you can run cheap, big, and bright automobile LED tail lights and LED fog/driving lights as bike headlights up front straight off of a 4s pack.

Not sure if LR or any of his customers except for maybe me are interested in a Aussie/Euro low power level version of the LR kit but dropping the voltage way down and flipping the motor around to go straight off the motor and eliminate the jackshaft would be one approach to accomplish such. Running at that low of RPM the small block motor is nearly dead silent and still has enough torque for low power Aussie/Euro spec. build (just checked that out myself by hooking up one of my 4s compatible controllers and a 4s pack up to my GNG original kits motor). Would just be a question of how much noise the #219 chain would make.

 

[Skippic]

you now have a 200-watt or 250-watt Aussie or Euro spec.

Why would you do that?!? ;D

 

[AussieJester]

With regards to distribution, I would happily put my hand up to be the Australian distributor, let me know what would be needed my end expense wise, when/and if you decide to branch out globally... Hyena need some local competition to his frock kit distributing... I have well equipped workshop, experience with mid drive setups, well known to the the local e-bike faternity..i only work casual and I've been looking for something interesting to devote some time to, selling and setting up kidsccustomers bikes would suit me to a tee...and Uhm... I havegood looks and personality lol

KiM

 

[PRW]

With regards to distribution, I would happily put my hand up to be the Australian distributor, let me know what would be needed my end expense wise, when/and if you decide to branch out globally... Hyena need some local competition to his frock kit distributing... I have well equipped workshop, experience with mid drive setups, well known to the the local e-bike faternity..i only work casual and I've been looking for something interesting to devote some time to, selling and setting up kidsccustomers bikes would suit me to a tee...and Uhm... I havegood looks and personality lol

KiM

KiM - would you do the installation as well?