LightningRods mid drive kit

notger said:
i actually thought that the airflow that gets constanltly created out of the hole will already keep alot of stuff from gettin in.
and to be sure i want to but some mesh over the hole, but yes i hear and understand the argument of limiting airflow.
thats why i wantes to ask if someone knows some mystical magical mesh.
if you need to rely on natural airflow then ANY mesh will almost totally your airflow. you need a FAN to FORCE the air to pass the mesh. if the mesh is dense enough to keep dirt outside there is NO WAY that any airflow will go through it without pushing it through. even regular axial fans can't produce any real pressure, you need radial fans to do it.
 
Does anyone here actually measure/log the motor temperature.

- what watts (volts and Amps) do you use ?
- big block, small block or original GNG ?
- what are the temperature peaks and whats the average temperature in you setups ?

cause my original GNG Motor takes amazing torture pretty well
with 2kw i have an average temperature of 80°C and peaks of 120°C (measured with adaptto-controller).

I used a kelly with up to 1,8kw before and set-up 120°C as maximum temperature, and hit that limit quite often.
 
You should go onto gng threads instead: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=42785&start=780#p674715

air gap was mentioned by me to make sure the heat is transferring to the case (I've heard from a cyclone guy I rode with their was a poor heat path to the case in the cyclone)
little fins can be seen too in that thread I posted above, Im guessing you could somehow remove them and use
something like this to create more surface area on the outside
motorheatsink3-600x500.jpg

that would be more like the aft mods (again bit more pointless fins if you have poor path to them)

big block never hit over 60 degrees Celcius. and I climb steep stuff as you have seen in my vids. I am way more worried about my 12 fet overheating than the motor.

The width is definitely problematic for chainring and pedal strike issues. It can be sorted out with more custom work. A few spacers, nuts and bolts here and there all it mostly takes.

Anyways this is Mike's LR thread after all.
 
John Bozi said:
big block never hit over 60 degrees Celcius. and I climb steep stuff as you have seen in my vids. I am way more worried about my 12 fet overheating than the motor.

What watts, Volts and Amps are you pushing in the big block?
 
bionicdan said:
John Bozi said:
or bug qulbix for a longer swing arm

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I was thinking about seeing if a revolt rv120 short might fit where that silver sprocket is inside the frame. Is there any chance anyone could measure the max diameter circle in that area before I buy anything. Tia Dan

Not sure if this will help or not.......
 

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Mike has several lengths of mounting brackets to add a big block to one of these frame kits, one of them will definitely fit. If I was building an off-roader, this would be at the top of my list.
 
notger said:
John Bozi said:
big block never hit over 60 degrees Celcius. and I climb steep stuff as you have seen in my vids. I am way more worried about my 12 fet overheating than the motor.

What watts, Volts and Amps are you pushing in the big block?

I run my big block at 82 volts and 26 amps (2100 watts) and after 5 miles of riding it might get to 100F. The big block motor can handle so much more. I'm running at less than capacity since its so powerful that reducing my phase amps was the only way to effectively tame the beast. I'm with the big block folks...just get the bigger motor. I've done what you are suggesting and it does work, but I removed all the vent hole covers and then made them much larger. The dust covers got filled with dirt and then the blower that was supposed to keep the motor cool was effectively a noise maker. As a result I added a 2 part baffle over the blower intake. Air had to flow up and then down to get into the blower. This didn't stop dust, but it did stop mud and water. Probably eventually, the motor would have had issues from dirt getting into the motor, but that can be alleviated with compressed air. The air input side of the motor was closed up to the blower so nothing was getting in that way except dust. The air exit side was completely open. Brushless motors aren't water proof, but getting some water or mud inside the motor probably wont hurt anything either. The windings are all insulated. Even the iron core is covered in epoxy or other resin finish. I wouldn't be scared to hose out a BLDC with the garden hose and then immediately run it. There's no reason why you couldn't run one in a bucket of water! IE: Getting dust and dirt in the motor is no big deal. Over watting a motor is mostly about heat control and then run it as hard as you can.
 
One of the major benefits if using an inrunner is that the shell is stationary, and it is the hottest part of the motor. This means its very easy to add an air-cooling fan, or some kind of liquid-cooling to a shroud around the motor, without disturbing the insides.

Just a thought...
 
ElectricGod said:
I run my big block at 82 volts and 26 amps (2100 watts) and after 5 miles of riding it might get to 100F.

whow, 100F thats around 30°C, so the big block turns it around ad seems to work like a fridge then :wink: :roll: :wink:

you guys should probably think about heating up that thing, that it will not freeze while riding :wink:

No, honestly, i believe that the bigblock is amazing, but really to gib, and i just feel the potential for 2-3kw in the small block (with some cooling)
So i'm really interested in some lighter weight kit
 
spinningmagnets said:
Mike has several lengths of mounting brackets to add a big block to one of these frame kits, one of them will definitely fit. If I was building an off-roader, this would be at the top of my list.

That's what I am hoping comes out of the LR factory next!

Mike, any updates you can share on the Q76?
 
Mammalian04 said:
Hi notger. Most people that have tried using with mid-drive motor are not having success and Adaptto officially says they had trouble too and are not pursuing troubleshooting to resolve.
Can you pop over to the Adaptto owners thread and tell us a bit about how you set up the controller with the LightningRods kit?

So to be honest, since the newest firmware update i just do the autodetect, and the adaptto-with my gng is ready to go.
So i don't think It makes any difference that i use the original GNG small block and not LR's

but sn0wchyld, once sent me his setup-changes and those advices also worked for me, but since the newest firmware, this is not needed anymore.

And concerning the complains about adapttos support, i can just tell the opposit.
Oleg from adaptto, is amazing, it never (really never) took longer than 2 days until i got answers.
And they even helped me out with some wiring plan for my individual mods of the adaptto.
So i can really not echo complains from this thread, and i actually understand that adaptto will not react immediately with solutions if we/you have wishes.
Most people and i guess they are thousands now use tha daptoo up to 14kw with hub motors.
So why should they jump up right at the moment if one of us few dozends LR/GNG users want to use the adaptto too.
Sure it would be nice, but imagine you contact any other professional controller manufacturer about such issues.
Apart from that adaptto is anyway working fine on some peoples LR/GNG - Kits, so you probably refer to old firmwar issues wich might be solved in general now.

sn0wchyld said:
firstly make sure OVS is set to 0, as it can throw of initial tuning

run atodetect

if the motor after its initial clunking around to get the hall sequence and phase R doesn't spin up relatively fast/draws more than no load should really be, stop and start the auto again (this happened to me, basically it got itself into a false positive hall/phase combo and was trying to tune itself based on that - lots of heat for motor and controller!)

tune the throttle

once the auto's got some semblance of the right settings, time to start on the manual tuning

for me, i used the eco power setting to keep phase/bat currents low (makes it easy to maintain certain no load speeds) in combo with the speed limit, so set these pretty low, maybe 5A battery and 25A phase, no speed limit, no acc limit
check you've got it right on p23 of http://adaptto.com/MANUALS/Mini-Max-User-Manual-ENG.pdf

go to advanced settings and put ang correction and ind timing to 0
spin the motor up at low to mid speeds (just enough so it spins @ 5-25% of max rpm)
move the ang cor a few points (+-, doesn't matter at this point)
spin up slowly again
repeat till it sounds as quiet as possible at 5-15% max rpm - should mean your ang correction is close to correct.
if your not sure, change it from your current point by a good 5-10deg or more, it should sound progressively worse going up or down from the 'right' point, right to the point where it doesn't spin at all. you've got phase amps set nice and low so it shouldn't cook anything, so play away.

once ang corr is roughly right, rev the motor slowly up to max no load, at some point it'll start getting loud with a low pitch rumble, a sign that the phase angle is less than needed - time to start increasing ind timing
keep spinning it up, increasing ind timing by 50-100 each time until the motor eventually 'runs away' - basically hits a certain rpm and then accelerates suddenly - this is a sign that the phase angle is increasing too quickly, ie ind timing is too high. roll ind timing back to about 80% of this value (so if you get the 'runaway' situation at 200nS, then roll it back to about 160ish)

Now add in some ovs, change it to 1 or 2, and repeat the ind timing. you'll probably find you'll have to roll it back another 10% or so if its anything like my rv100pro. at no point should the motor enter the 'runaway' point.

the motor should be roghly tuned now, as well as i coudl get without hooking up to a oscilloscope anyway (which i still havent done).

pwr timing and stuff arn't direcly related to the tuning of the motor and controller's hall angles, so ill leave it at that. might copy this to my build thread...
 
The adapter for the sprocket on the motor shafted has cracked.

Have been waiting almost two weeks for a reply from Mike via email.

Does anyone have information about getting these custom parts made elsewhere?

This is the second cracked adapter so would like something in stronger steel as well.
 
John Bozi said:
The adapter for the sprocket on the motor shafted has cracked.

Have been waiting almost two weeks for a reply from Mike via email.

Does anyone have information about getting these custom parts made elsewhere?

This is the second cracked adapter so would like something in stronger steel as well.

Let me guess...it cracked at the keyway where the metal is thinnest. I wondered why the adapter was made that way myself and thought if it was going to break, that's where it would give out.
 
ElectricGod said:
Let me guess...it cracked at the keyway where the metal is thinnest. I wondered why the adapter was made that way myself and thought if it was going to break, that's where it would give out.

the best solution is too expensive... sprockets made to fit directly onto the keyed shaft.

We are in the middle of an extreme storm so won't bother getting pictures for now. The bike is still running though, they are mashed together similar to the last pics I posted of the jackshaft sprocket / adapter.

I haven't investigated but am preying that the motor shaft is not damaged.

I'll take my hats off to anyone running these adapters over 3kw for a year of weekly riding without similar issues.
 
everybody with a lathe and a mill (even small ones) will make you this adapter for some bugs.
i use a little different setup like the standard LR-kit, i just welded my custom adapter to the sprocket.
it hold pretty well with 2,5kw since two years now.
 
John Bozi said:
ElectricGod said:
Let me guess...it cracked at the keyway where the metal is thinnest. I wondered why the adapter was made that way myself and thought if it was going to break, that's where it would give out.

the best solution is too expensive... sprockets made to fit directly onto the keyed shaft.

We are in the middle of an extreme storm so won't bother getting pictures for now. The bike is still running though, they are mashed together similar to the last pics I posted of the jackshaft sprocket / adapter.

I haven't investigated but am preying that the motor shaft is not damaged.

I'll take my hats off to anyone running these adapters over 3kw for a year of weekly riding without similar issues.

Are your keys a tight fit in the key ways of the motor and adapter and sprocket? I can see how movement in the key ways may cause breakage issues. The motor to adapter key way on my setup is a different size than the adapter to sprocket key way. I had to get a key that was a perfect fit to make it completely unmovable. Now there is no rotational movement between the sprocket and motor shaft. It would have been better if the 2 key ways in the adapter were cut 180 degrees apart from each other so that there would be more metal left in the adapter. Or mill the inner key way as a single part of the adapter that slides directly onto the motor.
 
skyungjae said:
http://www.gngebike.com/gng-belt-kit-2016

Sorry if this is a re-post, but I knew it was a matter of time before GNG Jon would copy your kit.

I do like the support bearing he's using on that triple chain ring though. :wink:

Hope all is well here.

EDIT:

Found this thread...
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=73700

Will buy American if I ever build up a new rig. :D

The GNG kit uses cheap chinese freewheels rather than the good ones that LR uses.
 
Hi LR fanatics...anyone interested on purchasing my small block kit. It was recently upgraded/restored by Mike and haven't use it since then due to busy life. Sad to let go but I'll wait few more years before kids grow up. PM me if you're interested. Thanks.
 
Are your keys a tight fit in the key ways of the motor and adapter and sprocket?

super super x 10000000000000 tight

So tight it was dam hard to get it all on. I got the key sprocket and adapter all straight from Mike after the one that came preinstalled on the kit fell off in the middle of an intersection. I didn't use loctite on the first set of bits, I now use a pool of red loctite on the grub screws and don't ride the bike for 24 hours to let it set almost like welding.

Hence I am not pulling it apart to inspect until it either fails or the sprocket teeth hook to near breaking.

I ride 2kw on road and 3kw off road (with a few overshoots from the ca / controller on extreme bogging down). I will be ecstatic to get a year out of these parts as they are.

I was hoping to get replacement parts to put on the shelf so I wouldn't need to wait for delivery and lose riding time....

Hard to get anyone make them without pulling apart what works to measure unless they have the exact measurements.

I did send info Mike posted here to mate who can fabricate but he needed more specifics than that .... so .... I either wait for Mike to reply or wait for the kit to completely retard itself again first.
 
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