LightningRods
1 MW
WOW! Those are gorgeous shots! Do you mind if I show these off?
LightningRods mid drive kit
- Thread starter spinningmagnets
- Start date
LightningRods
1 MW
ElectricGod said:
Unfortunately the N171 is the heavy duty version of the Nuvinci. It's also obsolete. Cheekybloke has one and is going to try it on his Big Block Beast. I'd like for it to work but I'm not optimistic.
pkirkll
100 W
Wow....
Great shots!
Great shots!
ElectricGod
10 MW
LightningRods said:
I think I smell burning Nuvinci parts! LOL
LightningRods
1 MW
Spoken like a true single speeder! 
I almost have the CAD file for your 50T #219 sprocket done.
I almost have the CAD file for your 50T #219 sprocket done.
spinningmagnets
100 TW
The N330 is bad, the N360 and N380 are good, but of course they have limits. The N171 has eight balls inside, instead of the common six, so it can handle 33% more torque than the 360/380.
The N171 has been discontinued because it's heavy, and that is why it was a slow seller. I wish they made a version with 12 smaller balls, because it is the tiny contact surface area that determines the hubs power capability. NuVinci is focused on the global "pedal only" market...ebikes are a drop in the bucket to them.
The N171 has been discontinued because it's heavy, and that is why it was a slow seller. I wish they made a version with 12 smaller balls, because it is the tiny contact surface area that determines the hubs power capability. NuVinci is focused on the global "pedal only" market...ebikes are a drop in the bucket to them.
ElectricGod
10 MW
LightningRods said:Spoken like a true single speeder!
I would like to have a couple of speeds in some kind of very small durable tranny that is inexpensive. Oh wait...small, durable and inexpensive...all in the same sentence. Doesn't that constitute an oxymoron? hahaha!
There's a thread on ES for an electric transmission that is quite long. Essentially you take the factory motor and separate the windings so you can switch from wye to delta via a relay on the fly. Right now I'm doing fine with one speed, but this sounds like a nice "lossless" 2 speed transmission. A lot of people have implemented it in their EV's and taken advantage of the 1.7X increase in Kv you get going from wye to delta. I've bought three 50 amp relays that I'll run in parallel...just need the time to implement it. Currently on level ground I top out at 46mph on the big block wired as wye and 3.33:1 gearing. Ideally switching it over to delta at close to top speed should increase that to 78mph. I wonder how much crazy current I'll use up trying to pull that off! Apparently I don't want to make it to my 50th birthday either!
ElectricGod
10 MW
spinningmagnets said:
I think those balls are really hard too. I think it's the fluid that creates the friction patch, not the compressed and flattened surface of the ball.
What do you say when you apply too much torque to a Nuvinci hub? Ahhhhh! My balls are burning!!!!
spinningmagnets
100 TW
It's true that it is the proprietary fluid that creates the connection, but it does its magic under the compression of the spots where the balls contact the input/output rings. More balls equals more torque capability.
Mammalian04
100 kW
I appreciate all the concern for my Nuvinci balls. I hope it works out as I have two big blocks that will be run through them. I may be getting new hubs laced up soon. :?
LightningRods
1 MW
I have them. I buy them 100 at a time.
I'm quite curious to see how a Rohloff holds up. One, you cannot shift it under load, you "can" under light loads, but should be shifted while unloaded. Two, Rohloff specifies maintaining certain gear ratios to keep loads inside the hub within design limits! From their website:
What that says is this hub is not designed to handle torque loads greater than those produced by a human running a 1.9:1 gear ratio. Someone will have to crunch the numbers, but I can only imagine that a BigBlock is going to be beyond this. Rohloff makes a solid product, but I'd be curious how long it holds up to high motor power. Also, at ~$1,400 for a Speedhub not going to be happy if it breaks, especially 'cuz not easy, quick, or cheap to fix. Sounds like more dollars than sense. If my chain snaps or cassette gets worn out, I can replace with all new for less than $100, the same day, in a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, and want to see one action.
LightningRods
1 MW
xnoitulos said:
Rolloff's performance claims are ridiculously conservative. It's hard to fault them for that. The Rolly does not like to be shifted under power and will protest if you do. If you exceed the power capacity of the hub it has plastic shear pins inside that sacrifice themselves to save the expensive components. I've heard that it's possible to upgrade the plastic pins to aluminum for greater power capacity. Obviously you're reducing your safety margin by doing so.
If you blow the plastic pins I've been told that it's around $60 to get them replaced. It seems that this German product is not like a Mercedes where they get you at time of sale and then again every time the car needs maintenance or repairs.
ElectricGod
10 MW
LightningRods said:
Gearing ratios don't say anything about NM of torque applied to the system. Rohlhoff trannys get used on 5 and 7 person bikes quite often. This is a situation where the loading is significantly higher than a single persons ability to generate torque. I have never heard of someone destroying a Rohlhoff. They are built to take abuse and love it. It's my thinking it will hold up just fine powered by a 3KW motor.
Shifting under power...anyone who has ever driven a manual transmission car or bike steps off the gas and onto the clutch, shifts gears and then gets on the throttle again. I don't see this as a big issue. We've been doing exactly this for years in cars and motor cycles. I can live with letting off the throttle to change gears.
LightningRods
1 MW
I've never heard anyone make a negative comment about the Rolly other than it's price. Someone bitched about having to change the oil occasionally.
Several people have run Rohloffs with Astro 3220s at up to 10kW. Other than needing to back off to shift the Rohloff handled 10k just fine. I agree, needing to back off in order to shift shouldn't even be considered a shortcoming.
Several people have run Rohloffs with Astro 3220s at up to 10kW. Other than needing to back off to shift the Rohloff handled 10k just fine. I agree, needing to back off in order to shift shouldn't even be considered a shortcoming.
ElectricGod
10 MW
LightningRods said:
Geez! 10Kw...um yeah the Rohlhoff will work just fine at 3Kw.
Please share links! That's incredible! Is that with a single or multiple 3220 motors? Is that with the modified aluminum shear pins?Looking into it more I quickly came across this article:
https://www.electricbike.com/a-rohloff-on-an-electric-bike/
From article:
Also,
The other bikes mentioned are also in the 1,000 to 1,500W range.
Digging deeper into the Rohloff website I found this...
I guess none of that matters if it's power capacity is grossly underrated and capable of 10kW.
Shot another video!!!
[youtube]EPvGf4PGgQY[/youtube]
Snipped a clip of riding up a set of 15 stairs to the beginning. :lol: Same setup that gets 54mph top speed in 11t cog, and climbing stairs in the 24t cog
Also notice that I approach the stairs slowly and then power up them (rather than speeding towards them and using momentum to go up) 8)
AND second 72v battery pack arrived today!! 100A on tap! Gonna see what the Lyen controller will pull. Range will be >35miles, with 1,656 watt-hours
Mammalian04
100 kW
Nice urban skills but I hope you don't live anywhere near me. Riding like that is sure to attract the wrong kind of attention for eBikes. Sorry to be debbie downer... 
sparkz
10 W
Sorry, that was a really bad representation for the e-bike community. The road display was somewhat hazardous, but you were the one vulnerable there. It was the shots of you riding through a park and on sidewalks at motorcycle speeds that got to me. Please take that kind of riding to a safer spot.
Nice urban skills but I hope you don't live anywhere near me. Riding like that is sure to attract the wrong kind of attention for eBikes. Sorry to be debbie downer...
Yeah, I hear ya. I'd say any bike moving fast without the rider pedaling gets attention, and of course a bicycle moving above 30mph will put a confused look on most faces. It might be hard to tell in the video, but I am being cautious. I certainly don't want to draw the wrong type of attention. Honestly, I usually ride around at night, when there's hardly any traffic or people out. Tried shooting the video at night but it's difficult to really see anything, so... Can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs (can't demonstrate what it can do without doing it.) If too many people cry about it, I'll take it down.
ElectricGod
10 MW
OK...I want a Rohlhoff!!!
Right! I gotta see these 10,000W builds! Or hear how it holds up with LR direct drive setup. Thinking about the multiple rider tandem, what's your best guess to total max power output? I'd reckon 300W a rider, for maybe 1500-2100 watts. I can only imagine all the drivetrain losses and frame flex for something that long (I've ridden a 4-man). I only mention because that would still put known Rohloff testing in the ~1500W range. One issue I can see is that there's no easy way to limit power based on what gear you're in. Sure, the 11th (1:1 direct drive) gear can probably handle whatever you throw at it, and the tall gears could well be fine, but what happens when you push it a little to hard in a lower gear? Snap! and I have a tough time thinking its something you can fix on the side of the trail/road. I'm not hating
It's an amazing and beautiful piece of engineering. I just don't know if it's going to be an easy process to figure out how to make it work with higher power.What can I say, I'm glued to this channel!
This should be a interesting read for those interested in Rohloff Speedhub, and from a respected source:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rohloff-impressions.html
Article contains
This should be a interesting read for those interested in Rohloff Speedhub, and from a respected source:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rohloff-impressions.html
Article contains
More good stuff in the full article.
LightningRods
1 MW
According to Cycle Monkey, the main vendor for Rohloff in the US, the company is very enthusiastic about electric bikes. They are being cagey though and keeping their power handling promises (and accompanying warranty) at very low levels. That is one consideration. Even fairly modest mid drives will be operating outside of Rolloff's factory warranty.
I picked up the big block/Rohloff bike from my LBS yesterday after taking it back to get a slow leak in the front tire fixed. They had done the tire and tube install when they laced up the Rohloff and must have nicked the tube. By the time I got the bike home the tire was flat again and spewing white "flat fix" goo out through the rim. I was not happy. Back to the LBS today with the tire to get a new tube installed. Big block/Rohloff tests coming as soon as possible.
I picked up the big block/Rohloff bike from my LBS yesterday after taking it back to get a slow leak in the front tire fixed. They had done the tire and tube install when they laced up the Rohloff and must have nicked the tube. By the time I got the bike home the tire was flat again and spewing white "flat fix" goo out through the rim. I was not happy. Back to the LBS today with the tire to get a new tube installed. Big block/Rohloff tests coming as soon as possible.
