LightningRods mid drive kit
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LightningRods
1 MW
Good God the JST catalogue is formidable! Anyone feel like giving me a part number for the JST connector they think would be appropriate for the hall wires on this motor? Thanks for any help on this.
izeman
1 GW
these are standard for me for some time now, as they come on lyen's controllers and justin's CA. jst-smLightningRods said:
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/connectors/conbag.html
spinningmagnets
100 TW
I consider myself a handy guy, but for a while I tried to manage the pins and sockets on the JST's to limit the number of wire connections. I now recommend buying pigtails, a factory plug/socket set with a few inches of wire on it. I use the Amberwolf method for butt-splices:
Deanwvu
100 W
Crap crap crap crap....
I was just about ready to pull the trigger on a 750w bafang when I came across this thread.... In fact, I would have had one already on order if the "new" version were available from EM3EV....
So now I have a dilemma....
Stick with the 750w Bafang, or order the Lightningrod??
Can anyone summarize the advantages of the Lightningrod (over the bafang), aesthetics aside?
This is what has me drawn to the LR:
1. Higher potential power (although I will probably still start with 48v)
2. Customization... what I mean by this is the ability to use whatever controller, batteries, and the use of the CA3...
3. Torque sensor (with the CA3)... I think I'd much prefer the toque sensor over the cadence pedal assist. (Does anyone know if it would be possible to add torque sensing to the bafang??)
And the Bafang:
1. Low cost
2. Small size (stealth-ness) I appreciate the size, but I do not "need" the small size... This is going on a cargo bike.
Can anyone break down what I mind spend total for the LR? This would be my first ebike, so I have no parts here--no controller, no throttles, etc etc etc.
Please fill in the blanks for me, if you could:
1. Motor itself: $800 (a STEAL)
2. Controller?? (I want a 48v at first, but I like the option of going 100v)
3. CA3: (~$150)
4. Left hand thumb throttle??
5. DIY brake cutoff switch for my current hydraulic brakes?
I am wanting to use a SRAM dual drive, so that would mean no rear hub torque sensor.... so, what other type of torque sensor could I use?? EDIT: Never mind--I now see that the THUN sensor is a BB sensor (I thought it was a rear hub sensor... makes so much more sense now, as I was wondering how a rear hub torque sensor could work with a mid-drive, as it would sense its own torque and start a never-ending torque monster cascade
I know that's a ton of questions, but I would love the community input! Thank you!
I was just about ready to pull the trigger on a 750w bafang when I came across this thread.... In fact, I would have had one already on order if the "new" version were available from EM3EV....
So now I have a dilemma....
Stick with the 750w Bafang, or order the Lightningrod??
Can anyone summarize the advantages of the Lightningrod (over the bafang), aesthetics aside?
This is what has me drawn to the LR:
1. Higher potential power (although I will probably still start with 48v)
2. Customization... what I mean by this is the ability to use whatever controller, batteries, and the use of the CA3...
3. Torque sensor (with the CA3)... I think I'd much prefer the toque sensor over the cadence pedal assist. (Does anyone know if it would be possible to add torque sensing to the bafang??)
And the Bafang:
1. Low cost
2. Small size (stealth-ness) I appreciate the size, but I do not "need" the small size... This is going on a cargo bike.
Can anyone break down what I mind spend total for the LR? This would be my first ebike, so I have no parts here--no controller, no throttles, etc etc etc.
Please fill in the blanks for me, if you could:
1. Motor itself: $800 (a STEAL)
2. Controller?? (I want a 48v at first, but I like the option of going 100v)
3. CA3: (~$150)
4. Left hand thumb throttle??
5. DIY brake cutoff switch for my current hydraulic brakes?
I am wanting to use a SRAM dual drive, so that would mean no rear hub torque sensor.... so, what other type of torque sensor could I use?? EDIT: Never mind--I now see that the THUN sensor is a BB sensor (I thought it was a rear hub sensor... makes so much more sense now, as I was wondering how a rear hub torque sensor could work with a mid-drive, as it would sense its own torque and start a never-ending torque monster cascade
I know that's a ton of questions, but I would love the community input! Thank you!
LightningRods
1 MW
Deanwvu said:
The answer seems obvious to me but I may be prejudiced.
4. The modular, open construction makes repairs and upgrades easy compared to the Bafang.
5. Compared at the power levels the Bafang's capable of, it will be pushing it's limits while my kit will be loafing along at a fraction of it's potential.
6. My kit's 219 racing kart secondary drive allows reduction adjustments from 3:1 to 8:1 by changing readily available sprockets.
1. I agree.
2. 12 FET 36V-84V 40 amp Lyen controller. Set up to be plug and play. $143 with CA plug.
3. Available through Grin Technologies.
4. $15 through Lyen.
5. Lyen has a complete e-brake lever for $15. You may be able to DIY by pulling the switch.
I am wanting to use a SRAM dual drive, so that would mean no rear hub torque sensor.... so, what other type of torque sensor could I use?? EDIT: Never mind--I now see that the THUN sensor is a BB sensor (I thought it was a rear hub sensor... makes so much more sense now, as I was wondering how a rear hub torque sensor could work with a mid-drive, as it would sense its own torque and start a never-ending torque monster cascade
I know that's a ton of questions, but I would love the community input! Thank you!
The Thun will work with the Lyen controller and my kit but is limited to 68mm. That's between you and your bike.
Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.
first thing first, i'm wasn't aware that any LEFT hand thumb throttle was in existence, i tried, looking for one. everywhere! if lyen has one, i'll teleport myself into his doorstep right now, so far i've been using right hand ones.
please don't say the "motor itself" costs 800$, people would be looking at you funny, the motor itself costs 125$. the entire unit costs 800$.
you can't REALLY compare the bafang to the L-R ,it would like trying to compare the iphone 1 to galaxy s5, the first is a low specced closed garden limited unit, the latter, high performance OPEN extensible architecture. and i mean extensible, by replacing parts and modifying existing ones, that's now L-R came to be.
also you should check out if there are any replacement parts for the bafang, i've seen none except maybe for the one type of controller, and by parts i mean like the ones EM3EV keeps for the mac , consider all the parts you might wear out (chainring sprocket, internal sprocket) as well as the display controller , (what if it brakes )
i see no way any torque sensor will fit the bafang as the BB itself is part unit, which is another plus for L-R, because without the sensor, you can fit the unit to other bb shell sizes) also there's no reason why a sensor would come out eventually for other bb's.
and last, you don't really need a diy brake cut-off, i've considered getting one myself, but i'm afraid of the bleed process i'll need to take, and i'm clueless about that, you can however obtain a COMPLETE hydraulic e-brake from http://www.bicyclettesdehull.com/en/product/tektro-auriga-e-comp-r-rear-hydraulic-disc-brake-with-lever-disc-caliper-hose-and-sensor-control-for-electric-bike they work with ca, i know ,i have them.
as for the jst i believe the exact part number for the 5 pin layout is SMR-05V-B (male) and SMR-05V-BC (female) don't forget to order the matching SYM-001T-P0.6 and SHF-001T-0.8BS (and a lot of them )
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SHF-001T-0.8BS/455-1121-2-ND/527351
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SYM-001T-P0.6(N)/455-1909-1-ND/1465028
please don't say the "motor itself" costs 800$, people would be looking at you funny, the motor itself costs 125$. the entire unit costs 800$.
you can't REALLY compare the bafang to the L-R ,it would like trying to compare the iphone 1 to galaxy s5, the first is a low specced closed garden limited unit, the latter, high performance OPEN extensible architecture. and i mean extensible, by replacing parts and modifying existing ones, that's now L-R came to be.
also you should check out if there are any replacement parts for the bafang, i've seen none except maybe for the one type of controller, and by parts i mean like the ones EM3EV keeps for the mac , consider all the parts you might wear out (chainring sprocket, internal sprocket) as well as the display controller , (what if it brakes )
i see no way any torque sensor will fit the bafang as the BB itself is part unit, which is another plus for L-R, because without the sensor, you can fit the unit to other bb shell sizes) also there's no reason why a sensor would come out eventually for other bb's.
and last, you don't really need a diy brake cut-off, i've considered getting one myself, but i'm afraid of the bleed process i'll need to take, and i'm clueless about that, you can however obtain a COMPLETE hydraulic e-brake from http://www.bicyclettesdehull.com/en/product/tektro-auriga-e-comp-r-rear-hydraulic-disc-brake-with-lever-disc-caliper-hose-and-sensor-control-for-electric-bike they work with ca, i know ,i have them.
as for the jst i believe the exact part number for the 5 pin layout is SMR-05V-B (male) and SMR-05V-BC (female) don't forget to order the matching SYM-001T-P0.6 and SHF-001T-0.8BS (and a lot of them
)http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SHF-001T-0.8BS/455-1121-2-ND/527351
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SYM-001T-P0.6(N)/455-1909-1-ND/1465028
LightningRods
1 MW
Thanks so much for the help on the connectors. Let's make certain I'm ordering the correct connector.
Like this except five position and in black.
I found it here:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SMR-05V-B(P)/SMR-05V-B(P)-ND/3622430
It seems that this connector is both the male and female halves under the same part number. I couldn't find the female part number anywhere.
If this is the connector people want for the hall wires I'll buy 500 of the connectors and 2,500 M/F pin sets.
Like this except five position and in black.
I found it here:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SMR-05V-B(P)/SMR-05V-B(P)-ND/3622430
It seems that this connector is both the male and female halves under the same part number. I couldn't find the female part number anywhere.
If this is the connector people want for the hall wires I'll buy 500 of the connectors and 2,500 M/F pin sets.
it's not the same part number, trust me,
the male is smR
the female is smP (i accidently pasted the same part nubmer in my previous message)
SMR-05V-B
SMP-05V-BC
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/742098/JST-SMR-05V-B-Housing-For-SM-Series-Grid-pitch-25-mm-Number-of-pins-5-Nominal-current-3-A
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/742199/JST-SMP-05V-BC-Housing-For-SM-Series-Grid-pitch-25-mm-Number-of-pins-5-Nominal-current-3-A (the image might show 4 pins, but it's five).
the male is smR
the female is smP (i accidently pasted the same part nubmer in my previous message)
SMR-05V-B
SMP-05V-BC
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/742098/JST-SMR-05V-B-Housing-For-SM-Series-Grid-pitch-25-mm-Number-of-pins-5-Nominal-current-3-A
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/742199/JST-SMP-05V-BC-Housing-For-SM-Series-Grid-pitch-25-mm-Number-of-pins-5-Nominal-current-3-A (the image might show 4 pins, but it's five).
teslanv
1 MW
Lyen uses a different (larger) connector on his standard controllers. - Not my favorite, but they seem pretty standard. If you decide to go with a non-standard connector, I would request that you include the mating end with the kit, so if someone like myself wants to use one of their existing controllers, one could solder on the mating connector without having to source it, pay for it wait for shipping.
btw L-R don't forget to use crimp tool http://www.pololu.com/product/1929
standard is a flexible term, i know that justin at ebike.ca uses jst's for all his controllers. it's problem i've stumbled early when i first started using different motors and different controllers, for example ecospeed uses molex connectors for their hall connections, so i had to settle on one type. i settled for jst's cause they are easiest to get for me (you can have them in singles from electricscooters for in packages from ebikes.ca)
teslanv said:
standard is a flexible term, i know that justin at ebike.ca uses jst's for all his controllers. it's problem i've stumbled early when i first started using different motors and different controllers, for example ecospeed uses molex connectors for their hall connections, so i had to settle on one type. i settled for jst's cause they are easiest to get for me (you can have them in singles from electricscooters for in packages from ebikes.ca)
LightningRods
1 MW
Why can nothing be simple? I looked into ordering the connectors here in the US and got this response from the Digi-Key product page:
September 10! This seemed impossible to me. So I contacted customer service at Digi-Key and they confirmed what the info page said: 14 week lead time. Obviously I am going elsewhere to get these.
Also today:
I ordered new hardware for the lower mount slide adjuster. With my old hardware you couldn't access the allen cap heads with the chainwheels in place and were forced to grab the cap head with pliers or long nose channel locks to tighten the adjuster nut. I found low profile carriage bolts that work perfect. They're a weird part and so special order. They were supposed to be here Monday. The warehouse in Seattle shipped them to the wrong store. Thursday now.
I found that I need a rotary table for my mill to finish the motors. I ordered one Saturday. I called today to see if it had shipped. They were just getting around to ordering it today and it would be at their location (Florida, the opposite corner of the US from me) NEXT TUESDAY. And then 5 days UPS Ground to me. Delays, delays, delays. It makes me crazy! I cancelled the first table and ordered another from Michigan which will be here next Tuesday-Wednesday.
This stuff eats up too much of my day. I want to be out in the shop making parts!
September 10! This seemed impossible to me. So I contacted customer service at Digi-Key and they confirmed what the info page said: 14 week lead time. Obviously I am going elsewhere to get these.
Also today:
I ordered new hardware for the lower mount slide adjuster. With my old hardware you couldn't access the allen cap heads with the chainwheels in place and were forced to grab the cap head with pliers or long nose channel locks to tighten the adjuster nut. I found low profile carriage bolts that work perfect. They're a weird part and so special order. They were supposed to be here Monday. The warehouse in Seattle shipped them to the wrong store. Thursday now.
I found that I need a rotary table for my mill to finish the motors. I ordered one Saturday. I called today to see if it had shipped. They were just getting around to ordering it today and it would be at their location (Florida, the opposite corner of the US from me) NEXT TUESDAY. And then 5 days UPS Ground to me. Delays, delays, delays. It makes me crazy! I cancelled the first table and ordered another from Michigan which will be here next Tuesday-Wednesday.
This stuff eats up too much of my day. I want to be out in the shop making parts!
well that's my source for http://www.electricscooterparts.com/blackwireconnectors.html (pity their very site name gives customs the shivi's, i ordered a planetary gear and they were about to send it to DMV for approval to be used in a vehicle, cause you know.. it had the name GEAR in it.)
googling "low profile carriage bolts" nope, still don't get it...
now googling rotary table mill
eww too many results...https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHKZ_enIL431IL431&tbm=isch&imgil=6TwjuaReD6tgcM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTnUi8KpePmSPyGPfiVMQEAhCE8U39JzZ_aFoPQnHbpD6r1QYsz%253B640%253B439%253B3KsAV63Zx7q3nM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.micro-machine-shop.com%25252Frotary_table.htm&source=iu&usg=__sZ85Zo9VjVy6MtBwsY01VpUF05o%3D&sa=X&ei=HZKPU7XrHsSU0AWfMA&ved=0CEsQ9QEwBA&biw=1920&bih=1066&q=a%20rotary%20table%20mill#q=rotary+table+mill&tbm=isch
and here i was hoping to get my kit before the end of times at the end of june (where our regulatory commitee will decide to ban all e-bikes from existence)
why can nothing be simple? let's ask dr. kelso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAeuChXAMKk#t=29
googling "low profile carriage bolts" nope, still don't get it...
now googling rotary table mill
eww too many results...https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHKZ_enIL431IL431&tbm=isch&imgil=6TwjuaReD6tgcM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcTnUi8KpePmSPyGPfiVMQEAhCE8U39JzZ_aFoPQnHbpD6r1QYsz%253B640%253B439%253B3KsAV63Zx7q3nM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.micro-machine-shop.com%25252Frotary_table.htm&source=iu&usg=__sZ85Zo9VjVy6MtBwsY01VpUF05o%3D&sa=X&ei=HZKPU7XrHsSU0AWfMA&ved=0CEsQ9QEwBA&biw=1920&bih=1066&q=a%20rotary%20table%20mill#q=rotary+table+mill&tbm=isch
and here i was hoping to get my kit before the end of times at the end of june (where our regulatory commitee will decide to ban all e-bikes from existence)
why can nothing be simple? let's ask dr. kelso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAeuChXAMKk#t=29
PaulD
1 kW
LightningRods said:
Not sure if it would help, but I have a small rotary table for my mill/drill here in Ashland.. but its about a 3hr drive. Probably not worth it, but I figured I'd offer to lend it.
LightningRods
1 MW
PaulD said:
That's really good of you Paul. If the delay were longer I'd take you up on it. What we're doing in the interim is larger numbers of all of the other parts. We have 90% of the parts done to ship 15 kits. I have four kits that just need the damn bolts that were supposed to be here last Monday and they're done.
Here is a carriage bolt:
You can see that it has a low domed head with a square shoulder under it. The square shoulder goes into the slot for the adjuster slide and makes it unnecessary to get a wrench in behind the chainwheels. It was one of those things that when designed by itself it was fine. Once the kit was completely assembled you couldn't get an allen wrench in to hold the bolt for tightening. Carriage bolts are common but not in a small size and 90mm long.
Don't give in to despair, Emayaan. Kits will be flying out of here in about a week, yours among them if you don't keep adding new modifications.
skyungjae
10 kW
LightningRods said:
When I first installed everything, I wondered how I was going to torque down the nuts on the other side of the lower sheets without being able to fit an allen behind the chain rings. Then I pulled out some long needle nose pliers from my tool bag and the problem was solved. :lol:
LightningRods
1 MW
skyungjae said:
I know, I did the same thing except with long nose vise grips. It works but it's not what I want.
I've spent so many hours cussing car designers who put bolts in a place that can't be reached once the car is assembled. I don't want to be the one getting cussed.
nope, i've i think i'm done with modifications, just wanted the heat sensor,mud guards, and off course the thunBB setup with trailtech arms, and lyen controller ..
"damn L-R, why did he have to think about every damn thing , dammit..."
"damn L-R, why did he have to think about every damn thing , dammit..."
LightningRods
1 MW
Yeah, it's time to stop sitting on this egg and let it hatch. I want it to be perfect, it won't be. I'll just have to continue the process of fussing with things after the kit is out there.
Deanwvu
100 W
Deposit placed!
BRK
10 mW
LightningRods said:
LR,
You are on the right track with those connectors. If you want to find more sources, use the search term "JST 2.5 SM" and you will find plenty of links like this one to get few to tide you over.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JST-2-5-SMR...Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27e45afad5
I have been using these since my first build in 2009 and I have learned a bit about the terminology.
JST is "Japan Solderless Connector" at http://www.jst.com and you can order direct from them by piece part.
SM is the Series and does not seem to be anything except an alphanumeric designation
The "R" and "P" in SMR and SMP are for Receptacle and Plug respectively
For the"-BC" and "-NC" suffix, BC is for Black Color and NC is for Neutral Color.
2.5 is for 2.5 mm pitch which is the spacing between the pins. (This is not to be confused with 2.5mm^2 wire size which is a very common wire size for our European friends.)
So what you need from JST are the following parts
SMR-05V-BC - Receptacle Housing - Black
SMP-05V-BC - Plug Housing - Black
SYM-001T-P0.6 - Pins
SHF-001T-0.8BS - Sockets
Also handy,
-500,000x Microscope
-Bucket of Patience
-Cursing Jar :x
-Few extra pins and sockets until you get good.
These are challenging to crimp because of the tiny size -(seems like somewhere between a staple and a sewing needle). But crimped and installed properly, they are very reliable and I have had zero failures with these connectors. Attached is the manufacture's data sheet.
BRK is right , you DO need some patience and practice (and a good crimping tool), i had to crimp dozen of those buggers till i got it right, it helps if you tin the end so they won't crumble when pressed together.
this is a good short overview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxMYjJ4Lwi0
additionally you should heat shrink the back end to have a stress relieve from being folded too much.
this is a good short overview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxMYjJ4Lwi0
additionally you should heat shrink the back end to have a stress relieve from being folded too much.
LightningRods
1 MW
Oh this sounds like fun! 
Thank you SO much for bringing this into my world!
I ran into an odd situation when trying to order the pins and sockets on the JST web site. They list the price at .24c per unit which ends up being $1.20 per 5 pin connector. The cost of the molded plastic housings was only about .05c per part. Is that the way it is? The tiny metal pin is nearly 5x as expensive as the plastic housing?
Thank you SO much for bringing this into my world!I ran into an odd situation when trying to order the pins and sockets on the JST web site. They list the price at .24c per unit which ends up being $1.20 per 5 pin connector. The cost of the molded plastic housings was only about .05c per part. Is that the way it is? The tiny metal pin is nearly 5x as expensive as the plastic housing?
