LightningRods mid drive kit

[BRK]

Oh this sounds like fun! Thank you SO much for bringing this into my world!

I ran into an odd situation when trying to order the pins and sockets on the JST web site. They list the price at .24c per unit which ends up being $1.20 per 5 pin connector. The cost of the molded plastic housings was only about .05c per part. Is that the way it is? The tiny metal pin is nearly 5x as expensive as the plastic housing?

I see that. I tried the quantity of 500 each of the housings and pins and it was 29,000 Yen, then I upped the qty of the pins and sockets to box quantities of 8500 and 5000 (or vice versa) and the price went DOWN to 24,000 Yen. Weird, but a good deal for a lifetime supply of pins and sockets. Maybe you can send them an email. Maybe those sub box quantities should be 2.4 yen and not 24 yen? That would make more sense.

 

[LightningRods]

I see that. I tried the quantity of 500 each of the housings and pins and it was 29,000 Yen, then I upped the qty of the pins and sockets to box quantities of 8500 and 5000 (or vice versa) and the price went DOWN to 24,000 Yen. Weird, but a good deal for a lifetime supply of pins and sockets. Maybe you can send them an email. Maybe those sub box quantities should be 2.4 yen and not 24 yen? That would make more sense.

Something is wrong there. The price for pins holds steady at 24 yen per unit with no volume discounts up to the box of 8500 and then suddenly drops to 1.4 yen. Sure sounds like a programming typo to me. 2.4 yen makes much more sense.

 

[emaayan]

they seem to have the same pricing.
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/742124/JST-BYM-001T-P06-Crimp-Contact-For-Series-SM-Grid-pitch-25-mm-Nominal-current-3-A/?ref=detview1&rt=detview1&rb=1

only you get a volume discount at 100 items.

 

[BRK]

I see that. I tried the quantity of 500 each of the housings and pins and it was 29,000 Yen, then I upped the qty of the pins and sockets to box quantities of 8500 and 5000 (or vice versa) and the price went DOWN to 24,000 Yen. Weird, but a good deal for a lifetime supply of pins and sockets. Maybe you can send them an email. Maybe those sub box quantities should be 2.4 yen and not 24 yen? That would make more sense.

Something is wrong there. The price for pins holds steady at 24 yen per unit with no volume discounts up to the box of 8500 and then suddenly drops to 1.4 yen. Sure sounds like a programming typo to me. 2.4 yen makes much more sense.

OTOH, they may just not want to mess with sub box quantities. Those in the box are on a metal strip on on a reel, so someone has to go and roll some off, count them, and then re-package them for shipment. The housings are counted by weight so a scoop and a plastic bags are all that is needed.

 

[BRK]

OTOH, they may just not want to mess with sub box quantities. Those in the box are on a metal strip on on a reel, so someone has to go and roll some off, count them, and then re-package them for shipment. The housings are counted by weight so a scoop and a plastic bags are all that is needed.

You know what, the box quantity may not be so bad after all. I was thinking one pin/socket per housing, but now I realize that you need 5 pins or sockets per housing. So even you were to get 500 housing sets, you need 2500 pins and sockets! If you just need a hundred or so, then go the Ebay route...I'll stop filling up the forum with parts chat!

 

[givitago]

I'll throw out my thoughts regarding connectors - stick with the standard 2.8 mm spade connectors (looks like tamiya connectors are more bullet like and not the same thing). The bulk of the Chinese controllers/e-bike testers use them. They are bulky but the JSTs are very fiddly to crimp if you do not buy a suitable crimper. If you solder, you have to be very careful because there is little clearance in the housing. Given that your customers are likely going to have a variety of controllers and are going to have to spend some time figuring out the hall sequences the larger standard connector seems like a good option (plus will likely be faster for you).

Regarding phase connectors, I swapped out my melted anderson knock-offs for 4mm bullets and have had no issues at 1500W. I used 4mm simply because I had a pile of them from making hk lipo parallel harnesses - but I'd be fine with bare wires.

I'm not sure if it is an option, but I know EM3EV gives you options for phase/battery connectors as I guess Paul realizes that he will never make everyone happy.

 

[teslanv]

Yeah, many options for connectors makes it hard to narrow it down to one type.

Lyen typically will including the mating half of all the connectors he sells with his controllers, and I have had good luck using them. And If I am not happy with their bulk, or amperage or whatever, I just replace them with my own connectors.

4mm Bullets (HK Style gold-plated HXT) are supposedly rated for up to 80A, and if I were to be pushing the limits with this kit, that's what I would use for the phases. - If my needs were more modest, I'd use PP45 Andersons. I think you either need to provide purchasers with a choice, or just provide bare wires. I don't think it is too much to expect someone who buys your kit to have to solder on their own connectors.

 

[LightningRods]

I don't think it is too much to expect someone who buys your kit to have to solder on their own connectors.

Oooh, I like that option!

 

[teslanv]

I don't think it is too much to expect someone who buys your kit to have to solder on their own connectors.

Oooh, I like that option!

Sounds good to me. Market the bare wire feature as "Maximum compatibility with your existing controller" and let Lyen provide the mate to his controller's connectors. That should cover at least 50% of your customers.

 

[izeman]

4mm Bullets (HK Style gold-plated HXT) are supposedly rated for up to 80A

this is PHASE not BATTERY! so divide that be 2-3 and you get your battery amps. so those 4mm bullets are good for max 40A battery if you use them as phase connectors. i use 5.5mm bullets for that.

 

[teslanv]

4mm Bullets (HK Style gold-plated HXT) are supposedly rated for up to 80A

this is PHASE not BATTERY! so divide that be 2-3 and you get your battery amps. so those 4mm bullets are good for max 40A battery if you use them as phase connectors. i use 5.5mm bullets for that.

Right 80 Phase Amps. - What I have never really understood is why it is OK to have 12ga wires & 4mm Bullet connectors for a battery, but the same combination of 12ga wire & 4mm Bullets is unacceptable for the phase circuit. If larger connectors are required for the phases, then wouldn't larger gauge wire also be required?

Mike, What is the wire gauge of the Motor phases?

 

[LightningRods]

The factory phase wire gauge appears to be 14 ga. I'm planning on offering 12 gauge teflon as an upgrade. The wiring upgrade is going to take time to pull together as everything does. The first kits to go out will have stock wiring and connectors. In the next wave I'll give people the option of upgrading the wiring while I have the motor open doing the motor shaft install.

My @#&%*!!!! carriage bolts did not come in again this morning! I almost ordered from two separate vendors just because I've come to expect this kind of stupidity. Now I wish that I had.

 

[izeman]

4mm Bullets (HK Style gold-plated HXT) are supposedly rated for up to 80A

this is PHASE not BATTERY! so divide that be 2-3 and you get your battery amps. so those 4mm bullets are good for max 40A battery if you use them as phase connectors. i use 5.5mm bullets for that.

Right 80 Phase Amps. - What I have never really understood is why it is OK to have 12ga wires & 4mm Bullet connectors for a battery, but the same combination of 12ga wire & 4mm Bullets is unacceptable for the phase circuit. If larger connectors are required for the phases, then wouldn't larger gauge wire also be required?

you answered your own question. normally phase amps is 2x-3x the battery amps. so you are right: it would be better for motor/phase wires to be bigger then battery wires. the main difference is that the controller may pull 40A constantly from the battery, but phase amps will be 80A-120A at lift off and will go down to 40A at full motor rpm. still i think 14awg is way too small for 3kW. i upgraded all my wires to 10awg for my 2kW motor which may not be needed, but it won't hurt either. 14awg will get very hot if it sees 100A for a longer period, that's why cellmann offers a wire upgrade even for the mac motors which are way below 3kW.

 

[Rotems]

Great connector for motor phases to controller.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=40780

 

[izeman]

Great connector for motor phases to controller.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=40780

no. they are NOT. good for 500w motors or maybe 1000w. but not for 3kw.

 

[Wishes]

Great connector for motor phases to controller.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=40780

no. they are NOT. good for 500w motors or maybe 1000w. but not for 3kw.

Watts have nothing to do with it. Only current matters when it comes to connectors. I run my heli's at 48v 120 amps with 4mm and 5mm bullet connectors like these.

These would be fine, in fact this is a great find, I had not seen them on HK before. I use the single 4mm and 5mm bullet connectors myself. These will make things tidier.

Wishes

 

[emaayan]

Great connector for motor phases to controller.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=40780

no. they are NOT. good for 500w motors or maybe 1000w. but not for 3kw.

Watts have nothing to do with it. Only current matters when it comes to connectors. I run my heli's at 48v 120 amps with 4mm and 5mm bullet connectors like these.

These would be fine, in fact this is a great find, I had not seen them on HK before. I use the single 4mm and 5mm bullet connectors myself. These will make things tidier.

Wishes

just be sure to correctly color them

 

[LightningRods]

I just ordered 10 meters each of 12 ga silicone wiring in yellow, green and blue and 100 5.5mm gold bullets. I'll start offering them along with the JST hall terminals as an upgrade for customers looking for higher current capacity than stock.

 

[izeman]

Great connector for motor phases to controller.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=40780

no. they are NOT. good for 500w motors or maybe 1000w. but not for 3kw.

Watts have nothing to do with it. Only current matters when it comes to connectors. I run my heli's at 48v 120 amps with 4mm and 5mm bullet connectors like these.

These would be fine, in fact this is a great find, I had not seen them on HK before. I use the single 4mm and 5mm bullet connectors myself. These will make things tidier.

Wishes

so then how many volts do you suggest for 3kw? we are talking 12s to 15s for this kit. so you don't have much choice. and this makes watts a legitimate unit as we are talking something in the region of 50-70v. this makes between 50 to 70 battery amps or 150 to 200 phase amps. if you want to do this with
4mm goldies you're free to do it. i would vote against it as mine melted the insulation (70v@60a battery).
you may also take flight time into consideration. it's for sure shorter then an ebike trip.

 

[LightningRods]

Take this brawl outside gents. I ordered 5.5 mm gold bullets.

 

[izeman]

Take this brawl outside gents. I ordered 5.5 mm gold bullets.

sorry. just wanted to make sure you have the most trouble free kit i do sell ebikes myself and i know how annoying customer complaints can be. so many ppl read this thread and it's good to spread info. sorry for slightly offtopic in your thread.

 

[Miles]

sorry for slightly offtopic in your thread.

No one owns this thread....

 

[Lenk42602]

sorry for slightly offtopic in your thread.

No one owns this thread....

Just to clarify Mile's ambiguous statements, there has been some internal discussion among the mods regarding thread content, and at what constitutes removal of content, if any, at all.

The group's consensus is that unless a post is inflammatory, spam, or a personal attack, any member is free to post what ever, where ever, they want independent of the guidelines set forth in the rules section. Most folks exercise proper judgement, however new folks or otherwise just sometimes are not aware of posting guidelines and forum etiquette.

Although we have a rules/posting etiquette section which provides guide lines for posting content in a thread, if a thread wanders off topic, it is not necessarily going to be pruned (incuding deleting posts) for pertinent, topic based integrity. LR, You may want to consider starting another topic about your kits in the for sale section, where any and all members can barrage you with all nature of questions regarding your kit.

Also, I discovered that Spinning Magnets actually started this thread, NOT LR.... Ironic..

Anyway, carry on, keep it on topic, and have fun.

Back to the regularly scheduled programming...

Len

 

[Deanwvu]

What brand/model of chain would be best for this kit (the bicycle chain)?? I am looking for a strong chain that can handle the torque of this kit without ripping apart

 

[LightningRods]

sorry for slightly offtopic in your thread.

No one owns this thread....

Just to clarify Mile's ambiguous statements, there has been some internal discussion among the mods regarding thread content, and at what constitutes removal of content, if any, at all.

The group's consensus is that unless a post is inflammatory, spam, or a personal attack, any member is free to post what ever, where ever, they want independent of the guidelines set forth in the rules section. Most folks exercise proper judgement, however new folks or otherwise just sometimes are not aware of posting guidelines and forum etiquette.

Although we have a rules/posting etiquette section which provides guide lines for posting content in a thread, if a thread wanders off topic, it is not necessarily going to be pruned (incuding deleting posts) for pertinent, topic based integrity. LR, You may want to consider starting another topic about your kits in the for sale section, where any and all members can barrage you with all nature of questions regarding your kit.

Also, I discovered that Spinning Magnets actually started this thread, NOT LR.... Ironic..

Anyway, carry on, keep it on topic, and have fun.

Back to the regularly scheduled programming...

Len

My concern is for the reader, not for myself. The HUGE failing of this forum is the endless bickering and pontificating over minutiae. It makes it nearly impossible to find any on topic information.

Starting a new thread accomplishes nothing as long as there is no way to prevent more filibustering. Spinningmagnets did start this thread for my kit. I don't know if he did it because the endless off topic chatter on the GNG thread made it impossible to find any information on anything, or because my modifications had become too off topic for that thread. Whichever is the case I'm in favor of it.

I'm going to try to stick to my policy of ignoring off topic or self indulgent posts. I don't want to feed those conversations. In moments of weakness and frustration I will probably tell people to STFU on occasion. Apologies in advance.