LightningRods mid drive kit

[jdevo2004]

First of all, is the motor running in the proper direction. It should be running counter clockwise.
Second, 550w is too high for full power with no load. This is definitely a bad hall/phase combo.
Maybe you should just hook it up and see how much torque you can get from one of those combos that is using 30 watts or 78 watts. You might just have a very efficient motor.
You might want to check the resistance of all the wires from the motor to the controller to see if you have an open circuit somewhere.
Looks like you have done all the phase combos but I will link the phase combo sheet that I used to find what worked for me.

View attachment Phase-Hall-Wire-Combinations (2).xls

 

[Cryptic]

Halls- yy bg gb Phase- yy bb gg- 550W
This is my standard config. Does the motor run quiet and smooth?

At 550W - yes - obviously not as quiet as at the 30W level - but then it's spinning a helluva lot faster

 

[emaayan]

If anyone left who is not ignoring me completely... can you explain what's the problem in using grin's auto hall sensing conrollers?

 

[Cryptic]

First of all, is the motor running in the proper direction. It should be running counter clockwise.
Second, 550w is too high for full power. This is definitely a bad hall/phase combo.

Yes it's turning widdershins (counter clockwise) at 550W.

Maybe you should just hook it up and see how much torque you can get from one of those combos that is using 30 watts or 78 watts. You might just have a very efficient motor.

If I put 78W in text file, it was an error (rechecked - it was - and motor spinning backwards with this combo too). I get 30W(ish), 550W(ish) and > 700W. At 30W, motor is very slow compared to 550W. And also significantly slower compared to earlier vids.

You might want to check the resistance of all the wires from the motor to the controller to see if you have an open circuit somewhere.

All looks okay

Looks like you have done all the phase combos but I will link the phase combo sheet that I used to find what worked for me.

Thanks

 

[LightningRods]

So to recap, when using the standard wiring configuration the motor spins quietly in the correct direction and draws the lowest no load wattage.

 

[Cryptic]

So to recap, when using the standard wiring configuration the motor spins quietly in the correct direction and draws the lowest no load wattage.

Phase yy bb gg Halls yy bg gb runs at 30W. To be completely honest, I didn't take notice of motor direction at the time, but looking back at my video, yes, motor is rotating counter clockwise.

 

[dusan]

I can't understand why motor without load should be running at 500W? When I was running my motor at full throttle with only jackshaft it doesn't take more than 60W.
30W is pretty fine for running only rotor, or?
If rotor doesn't spin enough, what power source are you using? Maybe not enough current/voltage .

 

[Cryptic]

I can't understand why motor without load should be running at 500W? When I was running my motor at full throttle with only jackshaft it doesn't take more than 60W.
30W is pretty fine for running only rotor, or?

I'll take 30W if it's right. Was lead to believe that it should be more like 150W when running motor only.

Initial run with belt on seemed slow. I took belt off again to check wattage and when I saw 30W, went back to emayan's video - and it's definitely spinning substantially slower than that.

 

[dusan]

What LiPo are you using? 12s is not enough for 48V controller, you should use 14s.

 

[emaayan]

i never checked with a ca, just an amp meter, so i can't be sure of the watts. but to be honest i don't think either of them is right, if my usage is 1.6 amps, then 30 watts is too low, my 14s lithium battery has 57 volts, so max wattage could possibly be 90 watts.

 

[recumpence]

12s is 50 volts

 

[dusan]

12s is 50 volts

When fully charged, it means first few seconds of ride.
Lifepo 48V battery fully charged is 59V therefore he needs 14s LiPo.

 

[Cryptic]

Being a noob, I did check with Mike before buying batteries. He said he runs exact same himself.

 

[LightningRods]

I have been running 12S. But dusan is correct that a more typical pack for 48-50V is 14S. I chose the 6S 8Ah Turnigy Nano-Tech batteries because of availability in the US when I purchased them. The motor will run at a lower RPM with 2 x 6S than 2 x 7S. When hot off the charger the voltage is over 50V but the pack is rated at 44.4V.

 

[Cryptic]

Okay, noted. Battery upgrade shortly.

So I'm feeling perceived wisdom is to go with the 30W configuration?

 

[recumpence]

12s is 50 volts

When fully charged, it means first few seconds of ride.
Lifepo 48V battery fully charged is 55V therefore he needs 14s LiPo.

Actually lipo is an interesting chemistry. It holds high voltage longer than other chemistries. Also, modern lipo packs do not sag under load to the degree other cells do.

Matt

 

[LightningRods]

I'd say try the 12S. I like my Nano-Tech pack. If it turns out not to be enough for you 18S is just one more 6S away. And of course 24S is conveniently right at the upper end of the voltage range for Lyen's 4110 controller.

 

[t0me]

To confirm as there is some conflicting information here regarding the hall/phase colours with a Lyen controller.
From Edward himself:

For the Lightning Rod motor, it should be let follow:
Controller: Motor:
HALL:
Yellow Yellow
Green Blue
Blue Green

PHASE:
Yellow Yellow
Green Blue
Blue Green
Let me know if it help.
Regards,
Edward Lyen

 

[t0me]

Also, both my "48v" LIFEPO4 pack are 16S(1P). Low voltage cut-off is about 48v so maybe that's where its getting its rating from (for the first pack which I bought ready made, the second one I made up myself).


Cryptic, try all the combo's, the one that gives the smoothest throttle response, and quietest motor action, ideally should have the lowest no-load current draw, that's the combo I'd go with

 

[Cryptic]

Thanks guys. I dropped a line to Edward with a link to my bench run vid, and he concurs.

 

[sascha2770]

Which bolt hole circle is beeing used by mike for the freewheel to 219 sprocket adapter? I Guess its 135mm? The smallest available kartsprocket of this size is 64/63, is that right so far?

Which kartsprocket is in diameter identical to 44 bicycle sprocket?
I know it's been written here somewhere by the king of Mid-Drives himself, but I'm not really able to use ES's search-function the way I can search with google...

My problem is: On the old setup I had, 13 to 70; 12 to 44 and 38 to 16(backend)
Wanted to have nearly the same reduction on the new setup. Have to do some calcs... but I really don't want to go lower than 16 tooth on the end. I was really satisfied with torque end top speed...
Edit: It will look nice if I can use double sprockets for my kmc 910 chain^^
The chains get thicker in every reduction... Wanted to make it reliable as fuaaark this time.
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=b9155f-1422716917.jpg

And another little question:
Is there an option in the programming to set a little delay to not stress the chain sprockets so much? Sometimes it really kind of beats my drivetrain...

 

[LightningRods]

My adapter plate fits standard 5.25" or 13.335 cm BCD kart sprockets.

The 75T #219 sprocket is very close to the diameter of the 44T 1/2" chainwheel. The 80T #219 is close to the diameter of the 48T 1/2".

The CA-3 allows 'throttle ramping' which can calm down the big torque jolt from a stop.

 

[gensem]

Adaptto ll come with PAS compatibility starting this week (and it already has torque throttle). That could be a reliable option to infineons and a CA.

 

[dusan]

Ask Jason from Conhismotor. They have controllers with power throttle / PAS. I am running 15A rated one and is fine. PAS levels are actually wattage levels, throttle also.

 

[Alan B]

Great mid-drive! I'm still working my way through the whole thread.

I would like to put one of your mid drives on a decent quality fatbike. What would be a good midrange fatbike compatible with this mid-drive? Something with decent components but not crazy expensive.

Thanks