LightningRods mid drive kit

[nukezero]

4. I sort of miss my old Electra Townie. It has a long fat ass chain stay. I think it could be perfect for this. Are there any concerns to putting the LR kit on this bike? Please advise. I'm thinking about buying one but with a IGH.

My thoughts exactly. I've been looking for that Townie for weeks. I've made up my mind, there will be a workable IGH with an LR in my future. I have a lot to learn about frames first. A soft tail townie? If soft tail is the right nomenclature for a shock mount rear wheel? I know the upright position produces more drag but, meh, I like the position.

I don't know if they make a soft tail townie. My main concern is that it is compatible with the IGH. Although I'm not too big a fan of it. I remember riding one and it was a bit clunky. It didn't really get into the gears that it was supposed to be in. I'm worried that the LR kit will blow up the IGH if the gear is like sort of "half in, half out" ya know? And IGH's are heck of a lot more expensive to replace than cassettes.

 

[tomjasz]

I know it's not cool, but my favorite bike was the Trek Lime and it electric 3spd auto. Next my Nexus 3 and the 8. NOTHING like my Schwinn Travelor Sturmey Archer in the middle 60's. There are two newer IGH drives that are even nicer from my reading and plotting. We'll see how it develops. I'm trying a SA 3spd drum brake and the Nexus first. But not on the fabulous beast from LR, yet. Nuvinci has me really curious if those fail, but I 'd don't have the gonads to try a Rohlof. There's also SRAM and Spectra. I'm collected data for the day I'm accomplished enough to sort it. This great mid drive my just be to much. I'd sacrifice the IGH dream in an instant in favor of this leading the pack drive.

 

[ten.ring]

yes wide diversity of any topic on any forum about any subject regardless of the demographics is going to take place. but after all it is a discussion! and bunny trails have been a GREAT DEAL OF HELP TO ME, and a lot of others as well. lots of reading, hours on end, then there it is! out of the blue, PAY-OFF a great big nugget of valuable information that could only come about from a bunny trail in a forum on the internet. I have gotten some very good specific info on blog's but there is only so much a one sided (yet necessarily so) communication can provide. the true nuggets are in wide diversity and buried under tons of rubble.

a blog can be kept on track, and some interaction can be had while keeping the purpose from fanning out into 1000 bunny trails. maybe the management on this forum could put the info suggested a few posts back at the top of this thread along with your website, that poster apparently did not know that lightningrods has a website.

 

[PRW]

if "that poster" is me, yes, I know about the website.. http://www.lightningrodev.com/kits/index.html

 

[nukezero]

4. I sort of miss my old Electra Townie. It has a long fat ass chain stay. I think it could be perfect for this. Are there any concerns to putting the LR kit on this bike? Please advise. I'm thinking about buying one but with a IGH.

My thoughts exactly. I've been looking for that Townie for weeks. I've made up my mind, there will be a workable IGH with an LR in my future. I have a lot to learn about frames first. A soft tail townie? If soft tail is the right nomenclature for a shock mount rear wheel? I know the upright position produces more drag but, meh, I like the position.

hrrm... looks like when Trek bought Electra this year, they sort of screwed the Electra line. No more front shocks on the Townie's.

Giant's Suede is out of production (must not be selling well) but uses casettes which I like. Trek's Pure frame is real ugly. Same goes out Cannondale Daytripper. Raleigh has one called the Route 4.0. Here's what I like about it and why I might be gravitating towards it. It has a 11T casette in the rear and has front shocks. Everybody else's bike is still using freewheels, with the exception of Giant. The Route's triangle is a bit smaller though but that makes it not look like a beach cruiser. This looks like it may be my LR project bike!!

 

[LightningRods]

My wife has a Townie. It's powder blue and decidedly "un-LightningRods" but I will probably end up electrifying it for her. Slightly slower than mine of course.

 

[xenodius]

this is a middrive thread, no controller thread.. anyway, the S-Series from BMS battery has no torque throttle, just torque steps if you use PAS. If you connect a thumb throttle, they behave like any other cheap controller.

Only torque throttle controllers I know: Kelly, Bafang, Sabvoton, and some DIY (Lebowski...)

Edit: That's wrong, Kelly is also no real torque throttle

Does the Adaptto qualify? Power/current is what we mean when we say torque throttle right?

The mini-e's dc-dc function and small size might be useful for an off-road vehicle- I'm about to spring for a LED light whip for my current bike. But not sure if the cost is justified for it's size. I think I would prefer the torque sensing capabilities of the CA in that case.

 

[crossbreak]

Torque sensing.. you mean the BB torque sensor? I think you could combine both.. would look a bit funny but definitely possible. I think you dont miss much with a Kelly+CA. Throttle behavior of the Kelly is much closer to torque control than infineon or x8m06c. Yesterday i drove my 3000W MAC Motor+Kelly at walking speeds up a narrow path, a young child just walked a meter in front of me for several meters (it had no possibility to clear the way). I did only use the motor..and was not affraid to knock it over...

I would NEVER have tried that with an infineon controller at 3000W. One very tiny tiny movement of my finger and the child would have been.... dont wanna think about

Really throtlle control of the kellys is a different league. Hope uncontrollable "speed throttles" will die out some day.

- I'm about to spring for a LED light whip for my current bike. But not sure if the cost is justified for it's size.

Sry i dont get it.. LED? middrive? what is the connection here?

Anyway.. as said this is a middrive thread.. controllers and throttles belong to a different category, even if torque control is even more important in a middrive, while a speed throttle still may be acceptable in a DD-Hub at these power levels (tried that)

 

[xenodius]

Just that the Adaptto kit has such a great compact dc-dc function that it makes it easier to add accessories like lights... but the kit is a bit overkill ($$) for a mid drive, and I prefer torque sensing capability in an assisted scenario.

 

[LightningRods]

I've been busting my hump this week trying to get all of the drawings done for the laser cutter. I designed guards for the primary belt and secondary chain, 83mm lower sheets, 100mm lower sheets, and several custom brackets for customers with unusual bikes. My laser shop said that custom brackets of the same material and gauge can be done at a much better price when they're done as part of a larger run.

Here are my drawings for the chain and belt guards. They'll be made of the same high quality 12 gauge steel as my other brackets.

My original plan for the belt drive guard was to completely enclose the belt and pulleys. Fortunately I remembered reading about heat buildup in these drive belts. It turns out that belt guards absolutely have to be ventilated to prevent overheating. So I switched priorities to just keeping clothes and body parts out of the drive. User safety has been one of the issues preventing me from releasing a complete kit.

New brackets and guards in to the laser cutter, motors coming out of Customs in LA, 219 chains, GT belts, freewheels and sprockets in stock, Lyen having a nervous breakdown from all of the controller orders I've been sending his way.

Thanks to all of the good people who have stepped up and ordered kits. Everyone who prepays for a complete kit before they start shipping gets their belt and sprocket guards at no charge. My VISA card has been reduced to ashes buying all of these parts so I do appreciate the help.

-Mike

 

[jdevo2004]

Everyone who prepays for a complete kit before they start shipping gets their belt and sprocket guards at no charge.

Sweet.

 

[scorpionice]

my el guapo is waiting to be E Guapo...

 

[Lenk42602]

schweet.

can't wait!

 

[Harold25]

I think for this kit to really take off, it needs to be plug and play. Or at-least in 1 or 2 separate bundles. When I was looking at a kit to buy, I wanted something I could pretty much just follow the directions with little actual know-how. So I ended up purchasing a kit that came with everything except the battery, and the battery pretty much just needed to be plugged in after I installed the kit, which came with the controllers, throttle, crank/gears.

If everything could be layed out so that if one wanted to purchase the necessary parts, they just picked up say package 1, 2, and 3. For example, package 1 contains all the mounting hardware and mechanical pieces, package 2 contains all the controllers/throttle and electronics, package 3 contains the battery. I realize there are several vendors at play here, but I think it would benefit everyone involved if you guys could communicate with each other so that a person just ordered their packages and then put together their kit. A link to all the packages would be nice on the lightningrodsdev site.

Right now when I go to the site, there is a package for the first part of the kit, but there is no link to the recommended controllers and battery.

Also, I am not sure where the controllers are supposed to be mounted, that part does not seem so plug and play. Is there a mounting solution?

I see great potential with this kit, it just needs to be easier for the purchasers to see what they are buying and what all they need for a complete working product.

I purchased a kit that had most of these kinks worked out, although the lightningrodsdev kit may be more affordable whilst being more robust at the same time.

Just some input from someone who may be interested making a purchase in the future.

 

[windtrader]

There have been several posts suggesting a form of buyer's planning guide or FAQ that covers all typical considerations for those just as yourself wanting to easily understand what is involved to zoom down the road on this ebike kit. I understand LR is really busy and going to get crazy soon but I am certain if he got more involved with this it would save him time and headaches many times over. There is a LOT more involved than just buying this kit and being on the road.

 

[LightningRods]

I think for this kit to really take off, it needs to be plug and play. Or at-least in 1 or 2 separate bundles. When I was looking at a kit to buy, I wanted something I could pretty much just follow the directions with little actual know-how. So I ended up purchasing a kit that came with everything except the battery, and the battery pretty much just needed to be plugged in after I installed the kit, which came with the controllers, throttle, crank/gears.

If everything could be layed out so that if one wanted to purchase the necessary parts, they just picked up say package 1, 2, and 3. For example, package 1 contains all the mounting hardware and mechanical pieces, package 2 contains all the controllers/throttle and electronics, package 3 contains the battery. I realize there are several vendors at play here, but I think it would benefit everyone involved if you guys could communicate with each other so that a person just ordered their packages and then put together their kit. A link to all the packages would be nice on the lightningrodsdev site.

Right now when I go to the site, there is a package for the first part of the kit, but there is no link to the recommended controllers and battery.

Also, I am not sure where the controllers are supposed to be mounted, that part does not seem so plug and play. Is there a mounting solution?

I see great potential with this kit, it just needs to be easier for the purchasers to see what they are buying and what all they need for a complete working product.

I purchased a kit that had most of these kinks worked out, although the lightningrodsdev kit may be more affordable whilst being more robust at the same time.

Just some input from someone who may be interested making a purchase in the future.

Good constructive criticisms and much appreciated.

I have not yet updated the lightningrodev.com web site but I am offering a solution for controller and throttle through Edward Lyen. You can order a plug in controller and throttle direct from him or from me. I do not mark up his work or take any portion of what he is paid so it truly doesn't matter to me how you order your controller. I will not be selling batteries but I am looking for solutions from vendors like Cell Man http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=35. I will buy a pack from him and use it provide clear instructions on how to connect his packs to my kit. I do not want to be in the battery business but I'm happy to help my kit customers get set up.

Lyen has one of my motors right now and has all of the connections worked out. I should have motor and controller back soon and will take a look at controller mounting solutions once I have the controller in my hands. I absolutely believe in making the process of installing a mid drive as painless and plug and play as possible. I'm a technical illustrator so I should be able to make this process understandable for people.

Thanks for your input-
Mike

 

[LightningRods]

There have been several posts suggesting a form of buyer's planning guide or FAQ that covers all typical considerations for those just as yourself wanting to easily understand what is involved to zoom down the road on this ebike kit. I understand LR is really busy and going to get crazy soon but I am certain if he got more involved with this it would save him time and headaches many times over. There is a LOT more involved than just buying this kit and being on the road.

For the time being, PM me with questions. I respond to everyone.

 

[teslanv]

I think for this kit to really take off, it needs to be plug and play. Or at-least in 1 or 2 separate bundles. When I was looking at a kit to buy, I wanted something I could pretty much just follow the directions with little actual know-how.

If you are not comfortable putting together a bike from parts sourced from a variety of vendors or maybe even a few spare parts collecting dust in your garage, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this might not be the right kit for you. If you truly want a plug & play system, look into Bafangs BBS02 kits.

 

[windtrader]

For the time being, PM me with questions. I respond to everyone.

That is the point, you do respond to every message; that takes time and patience answering similar questions that could be answered by scanning a FAQ. You seem comfortable replying individually so far be it from me to tell you how to run your business.

If you are not comfortable putting together a bike from parts sourced from a variety of vendors or maybe even a few spare parts collecting dust in your garage, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this might not be the right kit for you. If you truly want a plug & play system, look into Bafangs BBS02 kits.

To do this properly is more involved even if you are comfortable putting together a bike from parts sourced from a variety of vendors or maybe even a few spare parts collecting dust in your garage. Personally, my journey has crossed a lot of technologies and components. I suspect the demands I have to place on the system are far beyond most so I'm probably the odd man out to have to consider the stresses on many other components. An example is the chain sub-topic kind of got deep into the design and performance of sprockets and chains under high torque conditions. Maybe controllers are more simple: just buy a 8 or 12 FET Lyen and you are good to go; maybe not. I am having to question and give serious thought to wheel build. How many miles at 40+ mph do wheels hold up before weakening and failing? I do NOT want to be wrenching on the wheels all the time nor do I want to get throw off at 50 mph because of wheel failure.

 

[LightningRods]

Under $500 for the entire bike at Wal-Mart. Nothing to figure out.

KQR1004
Features:
Electric bike
Male design
Eco friendly
Seat: Wide leather, steel seat post
Display: Battery capacity
Gear set: Single speed
Brakes: F/R: V-Brake
Front fork: Rigid steel fork
Steel frame size 24 x 18
Max speed: Up to 15 MPH (rider weight contingent)
Range: Up to 28 miles per charge(rider weight contingent)
Pedals: Plastic with reflectors
Crank Set: Steel crank sets
Rims: 24 Alloy double wall
Handlebar/Stem: Steel handlebar and stem

Color/Finish:
Color: Champagne Red

Specifications:
Battery: Lead Acid 24V / 10AH
Motor: 250W, 24V brushless
Tires: 24 x 1.75W, with reflector
Controller: Speed sensor 24V brushless PAS

I can't compete with this bike. They even give you a free bell. If it had handlebar streamers I'd be in.

 

[windtrader]

Now we're talking! I was at wally land last weekend and saw one of them broken down in the parking lot. Did not get very far. LOL

 

[turbo1889]

I'm going to be buying a bare motor only with custom machined shaft from LR once his motor shipment comes in. I'm going to be wiring a Kelly controller to it. I'll try to post after doing so with a "this wire on motor connects to this wire on Kelly controller" in this thread after doing so. Obviously not everyone going to use that brand of controller especially since the recommended controller is a Lyen controller which is going to be offered in a plug and play model specifically for the motor used in this kit.

That's at least something I will be able to add to this thread but have to wait until I get the motor. Already wired a Kelly to a GNG but its been a while and I'm curious if the wires on the direct sourced LR motors are going to be exact same or not.

 

[turbo1889]

As for the walmart e-bikes look up some of forum members "Dark Angels" (or something like that) threads on the modifications you have to do to those to get them reliable and effective transportation.

Ends up being just as complicated if not more so and a lot more "specialized work" then getting a kit (or parts) like LR is selling where he is doing a lot of the heavy lifting for you. Him doing a lot of the custom work that needs to be done instead of you (and probably doing a better job !!!)

Even if you want to do a lot of the work yourself, the parts and components he has sourced and is offering are more then worth it in many cases. I for one am ecstatic to now be able to source just the motors his kit uses since he is also selling them just straight up.

No more modifying RC motors trying to add hall sensors and/or rewind them to lower Kv for me !!! No more trying to rebuild hub motors into mid-drive motors !!! No more having to hang motors by their axles in the frame with crazy custom mounts that are too wide in the frame triangle with the whole stinking motor spinning. Solid, reliable, 67Kv, 30-Amp continuous, in-runner motor, easily mounted, easily wired up, just narrow enough to easily fit in a frame triangle width without being too fat, can easily put sprocket/pulley/etc on a spinning output shaft, for a very reasonable price, and as the ultimate bonus to top it all off he can and will machine the shafts within certain limits to whatever we need to work with what we are doing = Thank You !!! Thank You !!! Thank You !!!

I can't hardly believe its really for real which is the main reason I'm waiting until his big motor shipment comes in before sending in my order for my first (as in probably more to follow) motor from him. Until I know its really for real and he actually has that big order of motors I keep thinking something bad is going to happen like I'm going to wake up and find out I dreamed it all. (Don't take this as any impatience or disbelief my part directed towards LR just seems too much like a dream come true that I don't quite trust my own senses. I'm still scared that I'm going to wake up and its all just a dream!)

 

[Kmob1]

I think for this kit to really take off, it needs to be plug and play. Or at-least in 1 or 2 separate bundles. When I was looking at a kit to buy, I wanted something I could pretty much just follow the directions with little actual know-how. So I ended up purchasing a kit that came with everything except the battery, and the battery pretty much just needed to be plugged in after I installed the kit, which came with the controllers, throttle, crank/gears.

If everything could be layed out so that if one wanted to purchase the necessary parts, they just picked up say package 1, 2, and 3. For example, package 1 contains all the mounting hardware and mechanical pieces, package 2 contains all the controllers/throttle and electronics, package 3 contains the battery. I realize there are several vendors at play here, but I think it would benefit everyone involved if you guys could communicate with each other so that a person just ordered their packages and then put together their kit. A link to all the packages would be nice on the lightningrodsdev site.

Right now when I go to the site, there is a package for the first part of the kit, but there is no link to the recommended controllers and battery.

Also, I am not sure where the controllers are supposed to be mounted, that part does not seem so plug and play. Is there a mounting solution?

I see great potential with this kit, it just needs to be easier for the purchasers to see what they are buying and what all they need for a complete working product.

I purchased a kit that had most of these kinks worked out, although the lightningrodsdev kit may be more affordable whilst being more robust at the same time.

Just some input from someone who may be interested making a purchase in the future.

Hi, which kit did you use that was Plug & Play? Do you have a link to your build thread?

 

[windtrader]

No more modifying RC motors trying to add hall sensors and/or rewind them to lower Kv for me !!! No more trying to rebuild hub motors into mid-drive motors !!! No more having to hang motors by their axles in the frame with crazy custom mounts that are too wide in the frame triangle with the whole stinking motor spinning. Solid, reliable, 67Kv, 30-Amp continuous, in-runner motor, easily mounted, ea

I agree with all that LR is doing. It is fantastic and a true example of giving to the community. This is as plug and play as I have seen for the DRIVELINE but different than kits including more components such as the controller and throttle etc.

The use of RC motors as an alternative only really applies if your build calls for high power. Most typical use and road conditions can be met with this kit. In high power designs RC motors are an option but one is no longer wearing a weekend DIY plug and play cap.