Local e-bike racetracks

[AussieJester]

Man, screw the trikes! Imagine trying to pass this low ass guy recumbent style on a trike I would end up running his ass over!!

LoL...well...that would depend on who was riding the trike and what powerplant they had, as i said above, a recumpence 28hp trike haha only time you would be close to that would be when Matts arched it up for shits and giggles as he lapped you....again. I agree though, they shouldn't race with 2 wheeled bikes, their cornering lines and braking points would all differ, would/could actually be dangerous. Road racing motorcycle events often race mixed 'cc' classes but they all have one thing in common...2 wheels not 3. :lol:

I knew petrol head motocross mad Thudmiester would have some input of them fairings :lol: so they are called 'dustbin fairings' Ugly looking things, was i correct they were banned from top level events back in their day? i forget the reasoning but i'm sure i read or was told they were outlawed for some reason or other...

EDIT: Now i know what they are called of course Google is FULL of pics LoL

""Dustbin fairings were banned by the FIM in the years after WWII. It was a period of increasingly restrictive rules, as forced induction (i.e., turbo-charging and supercharging) was also banned. Nominally, the fairing rules were put down to ensure that motorcycles had adequate steering lock and were not imperiled by crosswinds. The truth is probably that the rules were British punishment for the Germans’ starting the war and the Italians’ role in it; the restrictions definitely extended the useful life of the British racing singles that made up the bulk of 350 and 500cc grids.
"
source: http://caferacersociety.blogspot.com/2007/09/ode-to-dustbin-fairing.html

Cheers for the pic Thud, helps better explain what i badly described in my initial post haha i looked but couldnt find an image of one... :?

 

[madact]

Imagine trying to pass this low ass guy recumbent style on a trike

Haha? Ummm, what the? Well, I suppose you can imagine whatever takes your fancy, I guess...

Trikes by nature are a different class of vehicle...hence the name TRI-cycle.
The is the E-bi-cycle world challange.....(snob allert!)

I do take the point about braking points and racing lines - but if you're going to take that line, you should call it the "World Challenge For Electric-Assisted Human-Powered Vehicles Which Unaccountably Have Two Wheels Despite All Common Sense", or "WCFEAHPVWUHTWDACS" for short *sniff*. I take it you're also for excluding our e-unicycle riding brethren?

what a lot of guys don't know is that the rear end wher the air come back together is where the real gains are to made.

So true. Drag sucks.

 

[etard]

Dude, I'm not argueing whether or not the trikes are faster, but I am saying that there are fast guys on trikes and there are fast guys on bikes, but not all guys on trikes are fast, so for the chance occasion that said fast guy on bike passes inconcievably slow guy on trike it might possibly get his knee high ass ran over by said Ebiker.

Thud,
That green bike is sick, how do you sit on that thing!!??

It would be cool if the streamliners of yesteryear make thier comeback in electric power!! Leather helmet and goggles baby!!

 

[AussieJester]

Imagine trying to pass this low ass guy recumbent style on a trike

Haha? Ummm, what the? Well, I suppose you can imagine whatever takes your fancy, I guess...

I guess you're unaware of the general perception people have of the types that ride bents? Personally have nothing against them or the bikes, but they wont mix on a race track with 2 wheelers well, you don't see a Motorcycle races with trikes mixed in with them why should it be done on an e-bike race? Different braking points and lines as stated above is a very important point IMO, it could/would lead to more accidents.

This lil cartoon might bring you upto date on peoples thoughts on those that ride the recumbents anywayz buddy...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19441&hilit=recumbent+riders



KiM

 

[liveforphysics]

It's pretty simple guys. If you allow trikes, then anyone serious about winning MUST do a trike build to be competitive. This makes it a trike race with some bicycles for obstacles as they get lapped.

If you want a race for bicycles, you can't allow chassis options that have massive advantages over a bicycle to also be in the race (karts, trikes, etc).

It's that simple.

 

[amberwolf]

You're also making an assumption that it's going to be a lowracer trike; it might not be.

If I had the Cerberus version of CrazyBike2 figured out, it'd be *both* a trike and a bike, so I'm not sure if it'd be banned or not. :lol:

 

[liveforphysics]

You're also making an assumption that it's going to be a lowracer trike; it might not be.

Well... It' a race right?

 

[amberwolf]

Yep, but a leaning trike could be about as stable as a lowracer without being quite that low; aero could depend on fairings or whatnot.

I'm not experienced in anything about racing, so anything I input in threads like this could be totally irrelevant. Hopefully I'll learn enough from the responses and the rest of such threads to get better abotu the irrelevant part.

 

[John in CR]

How about helium balloons? You guys have a rule against them yet?....You know, in case my 2 wheeler is a bit overweight on race day, and I need them for my lithium-helium batteries anyway. I gotta find some rule to circumvent.

 

[John in CR]

Here's an idea, since you guys want things evened up (eg trikes have an unfair advantage), make the race 20 or 30 miles. I bet just the idea makes some want to cry.

 

[Evoforce]

You know, when the first liquor runners got together, there were only races. No real rules. Of course things had to evolve. Do we need many rules to begin with? I hope not. The fun is the (get together) or event.

 

[liveforphysics]

You know, when the first liquor runners got together, there were only races. No real rules. Of course things had to evolve. Do we need many rules to begin with? I hope not. The fun is the (get together) or event.

How much more simple does it get?

An e-bicycle under 70lbs with working pedals.

Anytime your entire set of rules fits in 7 words, I think it's simple enough right?

 

[Thud]

I thought this thread was for finding a few tracks accross the country as possible gathering points

LFP, The rules are Perfect for the 1st gathering. (Although the "POPE" of all bike racing thinks its a bad idea hehe)

madact:

I take it you're also for excluding our e-unicycle riding brethren?

The intent is not to be exclusionary....its just a starting point, picking up the Gauntlet thrown in good spirit by our fellow racing enthusiest accross the pond Tiberious. The more guys who show up at this WORLD CHALLNGE (oops thats the other thread!)the better, I will be happy to attend any all inclusive event.

But the last thing an inagural event needs is a seperate "Feel good" class for every guy who has a varient of the "Prone,Ultra-efficient,Suspended,Streamliner,Yacht bike".
(theres an akronym for you AJ)

But all the worry about the bikes is crap...Evoforce has it right. The event is the "gathering" It will be a good time.

 

[dogman dan]

Another thread hijacked, not the first nor the last. Back on topic, I still like the idea of a dirt oval track on somebodies property for local races. Should be lots cheaper than an asphalt track race. But finding the spot can still be hard, most of the poachable locations in my area are not such great surfaces for a race unless you go drag it for quite awhile. Which then gets you into needing permission instead of just popping out to a vacant lot and letting er rip.

But a dirt road race, or trail race is another story. At least here in NM, there are places where two trucks could temporarily block off a couple miles of dirt road, and a short one way race could be held, or a two way race against the clock. I know one place where the roads do make a circle you could do laps on. Or the trials I built could be raced on, but they would be very very narrow and hard to pass on.

That would be the cheapest option, maybe a farmers road in the midwest could be borrowed.

 

[madact]

Sorry bout the, ummm, thread hijacking dogman... and I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek about the unicycles too, not really accusing you of being intolerant Thud.

I like the idea of a plain ol' get together with some heats, maybe a bit of a road rally / town tour the day after, I'd just want to bring what I'm working on now (on the hypothetical of having the cash to travel on by then :?), which happens to be a velo .

On the mixing trikes with bikes issue, I'll admit it's not really a good idea if you're running a serious competition, or even if you had competitive types involved - LFP is dead right about the competition side of things, and the speed differential could be dangerous, if nothing else - and that's just with the pure HPVs I have racing experience with, dunno what to expect if you add electric to that... mind you, 70lb limit would mean I'd be running with maybe 5Ah lipo

 

[liveforphysics]

Another thread hijacked, not the first nor the last. Back on topic, I still like the idea of a dirt oval track on somebodies property for local races. Should be lots cheaper than an asphalt track race. But finding the spot can still be hard, most of the poachable locations in my area are not such great surfaces for a race unless you go drag it for quite awhile. Which then gets you into needing permission instead of just popping out to a vacant lot and letting er rip.

For a race on dirt/grass, I don't know if you saw the very poor quality video I made, but the place I'm offering in the Seattle area has a large flat field (with lighting for night riding!) that we regularly race around on with dirtbikes. It's a place we could race all day long for free and nobody could say a thing to us. I don't see it as a replacement for an asphault kart-track race, but it could definately be a place to have a lot of fun holding other races and BBQ'ing etc etc.

 

[etard]

Sorry for the threadjack, here's a local kart track near me that has camping, fishing and a small lake right next to it. It is located in Perris, CA and is centrally located from great beaches and mountains. There is also a bmx track and motocross track right next to it. I think it would be an excellent location!

http://www.apexracing.com/track.html

It's about 30 minutes from Ontario ( CA) airport and there is casinos vineyards and plenty of shoppong and eateries for the ladies that are unfortunate enough to get dragged into such an event.

Again, sorry if I went off topic, from now on I will remain on task.

 

[dogman dan]

Hey, threads wander, I wansn't bitching about it. 8)

Love the Idea of a Race in Perris, or anywhere in socal. My brother has a house in Lake Elsinore about an hour away so I'd not need a motel. Perfect for me, and drivable distance at 700 miles. But a track near central CA might be a good compromise on the distances for at least the west coasters. The main issue for anybody hosting an event would be the possibity of getting stuck with the track rent if only 4 people show up. That was why I said a dirt track or dirt road race may be the answer for many of us who would like to hold a race in thier own area. Eventually there will be many races the size of the Death Race where the track owner could make money just on the 20 buck entry fee. But not yet.

A local enough kart track that could be rented for just 2 hours for about $600 would be ideal for a small local race. In my area, you can rent Arroyo Seco by the hour for about $300, but it's too dang big, for cars. Unless we start building 60 mph Ebikes. Wish he'd add a kart track to the place.

 

[John in CR]

...An e-bicycle under 70lbs with working pedals..

Cool, my weather balloon idea can even get my blue bike in, at least the first year. :lol:

In all seriousness, if I was in I'd have to go for something radical like using lipo packs as the primary construction component of the bike. Those Zippy 3ah 5s 20c packs on sale for 32cents/wh would be perfect for such a build. Run them through 10-20 cycles to weed out runts, and then use the packs like overlapping bricks with fiberglass/epoxy as your mortar to build the basic structure.

The EIG C series 10C batteries or those new A123 prismatic cells would be great to use this way too (less tedious wiring), if they ever become available to us again.

How long are these races, so I'd know how much battery to use as Batt Bike's bricks?

John

 

[Whiplash]

LOVIN the Perris track idea! I would be there for sure! As for the track rental fees, we simply pick someone to hole the entry fees and promise to return them all if the event doe snot reach the number of entries that will pay for the track. I say go see what the Perris track will charge? I bet not too much as we will not need much support. I think this would be a blast! I might even put together a real race bike for something this close to home! Its only about 45 minutes from me!

 

[SoSauty]

Well, was sorta thinking about where/how to get e-bike racing jump started, so guessed we touched on a few of those concerns. There are Kart tracks out there to be co-opted for our future sport (which isn't defined yet). I was hoping the insurance issue would get talked up, could be a hindrence in CA.

Simple oval dirt tracks are that, simple. Shorttracking can be a hoot but spectating left turn only racing seems a little lacking.

Short .25 to .5 mile hard surface twisty constant turning tracks do it for me. The entire race would be in view. Can't imagine bikes tooling around in a single line on such either. Also, 35+mph seems a great departure from bicycle tradition and geometry. Insurance becomes exponential as speeds increase. Who wants to insure an unproven sport where speeds exceed what helmets and other equipment is rated for. The 700' straight at Tucson rates as a tad excessive IMHO, but not by much.

Dogman, what role would you say pedalling has at Spooky Tooth DR? Is a 1000W or 48V heat still in the plans?

Looks as if almost anything goes set of heat races with a bit more rule rigid final could get our ya ya's out. Let the over weight C-5300s have a go at it with the feather weight folders and give honorable mention or bragging rights. A consolidation heat for 1st place loser is what I'm gunning for. Last placers or early crashers have to drink a hot beer from the 6 pax placed on the hood of my car.

 

[Whiplash]

Last placers or early crashers have to drink a hot beer from the 6 pax placed on the hood of my car.

HAHAhaa! Now that's funny right there!

 

[etard]

I think we do need to get a meet going, alomst all other forums have something and ES has nothing of the sort. I guess it's because we are so spread out over the globe.

There are also any number of dry lake beds around Vegas that would be free, good luck charging though.
I almost think a pikes peak type ride would be cool, if we could find an area low key and not overrun by pedestrians or hikers. After seeing all that rain in Thud's race I would think SoCal or AZ is the best localle to guarantee that the event won't be cancelled because of weather. Not being biased or anything but I think Perris is an ideal place. I will call and find out pricing.

 

[Whiplash]

Again I say I am IN if it happens in Paris, But I will need some time if I am going to get any kind of real racer done, but I guess I could just use my work bike and volt/amp the hell out of it! LOL!

 

[dogman dan]

Me too, I'm so overdue to visit my bro in Califa. Kinda got out of the habit when we started burning all our money in a hot air balloon. Good excuse to drive out there.

Pedaling does happen in the death race, mostly out of corners at the long straights. Running a lame 48v last year, I could have pedaled all the way. Ever tried to put out 300 watts pedaling for 30 min when you are fat and fifty? I settled for pedaling like hell on the long straights. The rest I just pedaled at 50 watts. Even with 72v, I should still be pedaling hard out of the corners for a few feet next time. 58 tooth front gear.

I don't think the 1000 watt heat ever got much traction. If Safe shows up though, I'll pop a 48v controller on the bike and take him on. Or anybody else wanting to race a stock kit at 48v type heat. Most likely a very informal race, with just a couple guys during the practice time for just a few laps.

On the other hand, if 20 show up for a stock kit race, we can all just run in one of the regular heats.