Hello everyone,
I've ordered a really, really, really off-brand Chinese mid-drive motor (0 reviews), more of an experiment than anything else, $470 USD including shipping. At least it was on EBay and not Ali Express, right... It may not work at all, it may be fine, who knows. If it doesn't work I'll probably do the CYC X1 Stealth later. The cool thing about this motor is that it comes with 4 (front) chainrings. FOUR!!! Hopefully they are 104 BCD and I can change them later. One of the chainrings has a freewheel attached for the 2nd chain that's also attached to the motor. As I mentioned in a different post, I'd like to use a 24mm Hollowtech spindle instead of Square-Taper because the latter is IMO outdated 20th-century tech that really doesn't need to exist on mountain bikes, and is 10 times harder to work with than Hollowtech.
If the (what looks like 28T) freewheel gear comes off, and it's (probably) 64 BCD, great, I can add it to the Hollowtech triple chainring crankset and use two other chainrings w/o front derailleur, anywhere from 30T to 52T but probably for now 36T/48T. That's a big range advantage over a standard 1x mid-drive for both climbing and faster pavement. Of course I'd turn the motor off when changing over the chain by hand. If the freewheel is integrated into the crankset coming in the mail, then I can't use it with a different crankset. And that's where this question begins: a lot of people online have said that without a freewheel / clutch to turn off the motor, the cranks will always spin even if you quit pedaling, which is very dangerous. They keep saying over and over again that it's a great way to break ankles if the freewheel ring is worn or removed. I have two issues with that theory below. Before that however, I do want to add that on my front hub drive, there is a C - Cruise Control function for the throttle, and offroad it is a bit dangerous because you have to push the off button for two seconds or the hub will keep spinning the wheel even when you want to slow down (for a turn or downhill for example). So yes there is a potential for danger if the motor is still on and the pedals are not being turned by human power. But that's Cruise Control throttle only, it's not PAS.
1. Many, many Bafang BSSxx users have complained that over time, pedaling resistance with the motor off increases. To the point that they have trouble pedaling the bike if the battery is drained or there is some other issue. They say there is a noticeable draggy feel. That I assume means the internal clutch is partially engaged with the nylon drive gear due to wear on either or both of them, and cannot be completely disconnected from each other. But none of them mention that when the motor is on, they quit pedaling and the cranks keep turning. The only time someone with a BSSxx said that (that I have read) was during the 1st generation of the internal controller; it was supposedly a programming glitch that can be fixed either with an updated controller or by wire and laptop. Any comments on this?
2. Some mid-drives, like the Bafang BSSxx, have a throttle. If you twist or thumb on the throttle, the cranks move. If you let it off, the cranks don't move. It's separate from PAS of course. So why would some say that PAS is freewheel-dependent? PAS, whether on a hub-drive or mid-drive, is only there to sense 'something' moving on the bike --- either the crank, an inner chainring, or a rear wheel spoke, depending on where the PAS is attached. If a throttle is used instead on a mid-drive, the motor directly turns the cranks regardless of what the PAS is reading for motion, because throttle and PAS are separate. This particular mid-drive came with two options: throttle only and throttle plus PAS. Throttle only of course does not come with PAS!!! And obviously the cranks don't keep spinning if the throttle is off or no mid-drive could ever have a throttle to begin with. If you have a throttle and no freewheel or clutch, and you let off the throttle, the electric power stops, correct? Why would the cranks keep turning if the throttle is off even if there was no freewheel/clutch, and instead just a normal gear or small chainring instead? Makes no sense. The throttle would turn the inner chainring (and inner chain) regardless of whether there was a freewheel attached or not. The freewheel is simply there to help manually crank the pedals under human power if the electric power is off. The freewheel has nothing to do with turning off the electric power itself. There is an electrical component which initiates that 'off' function, not a mechanical one.
The freewheel or clutch is only there to manually pedal if the motor is off, that's the only conclusion I have after thinking about the first two issues above. Otherwise, the Bafang dudes with partially frozen clutches would be crashing all over the place, and mid-drive throttles could not work correctly, unless some PAS detector was looking directly at the throttle gear driving the cranks, which is redundant. The PAS is only there to sense movement and activate the motor during pedaling. That's all it does. It's not some high-tech NASA invention. The PAS would have no idea if the freewheel were removed on the inner chainring unless that freewheel also had magnets that signaled movement to the PAS sensor.
Correct? Or not.
I've ordered a really, really, really off-brand Chinese mid-drive motor (0 reviews), more of an experiment than anything else, $470 USD including shipping. At least it was on EBay and not Ali Express, right... It may not work at all, it may be fine, who knows. If it doesn't work I'll probably do the CYC X1 Stealth later. The cool thing about this motor is that it comes with 4 (front) chainrings. FOUR!!! Hopefully they are 104 BCD and I can change them later. One of the chainrings has a freewheel attached for the 2nd chain that's also attached to the motor. As I mentioned in a different post, I'd like to use a 24mm Hollowtech spindle instead of Square-Taper because the latter is IMO outdated 20th-century tech that really doesn't need to exist on mountain bikes, and is 10 times harder to work with than Hollowtech.
If the (what looks like 28T) freewheel gear comes off, and it's (probably) 64 BCD, great, I can add it to the Hollowtech triple chainring crankset and use two other chainrings w/o front derailleur, anywhere from 30T to 52T but probably for now 36T/48T. That's a big range advantage over a standard 1x mid-drive for both climbing and faster pavement. Of course I'd turn the motor off when changing over the chain by hand. If the freewheel is integrated into the crankset coming in the mail, then I can't use it with a different crankset. And that's where this question begins: a lot of people online have said that without a freewheel / clutch to turn off the motor, the cranks will always spin even if you quit pedaling, which is very dangerous. They keep saying over and over again that it's a great way to break ankles if the freewheel ring is worn or removed. I have two issues with that theory below. Before that however, I do want to add that on my front hub drive, there is a C - Cruise Control function for the throttle, and offroad it is a bit dangerous because you have to push the off button for two seconds or the hub will keep spinning the wheel even when you want to slow down (for a turn or downhill for example). So yes there is a potential for danger if the motor is still on and the pedals are not being turned by human power. But that's Cruise Control throttle only, it's not PAS.
1. Many, many Bafang BSSxx users have complained that over time, pedaling resistance with the motor off increases. To the point that they have trouble pedaling the bike if the battery is drained or there is some other issue. They say there is a noticeable draggy feel. That I assume means the internal clutch is partially engaged with the nylon drive gear due to wear on either or both of them, and cannot be completely disconnected from each other. But none of them mention that when the motor is on, they quit pedaling and the cranks keep turning. The only time someone with a BSSxx said that (that I have read) was during the 1st generation of the internal controller; it was supposedly a programming glitch that can be fixed either with an updated controller or by wire and laptop. Any comments on this?
2. Some mid-drives, like the Bafang BSSxx, have a throttle. If you twist or thumb on the throttle, the cranks move. If you let it off, the cranks don't move. It's separate from PAS of course. So why would some say that PAS is freewheel-dependent? PAS, whether on a hub-drive or mid-drive, is only there to sense 'something' moving on the bike --- either the crank, an inner chainring, or a rear wheel spoke, depending on where the PAS is attached. If a throttle is used instead on a mid-drive, the motor directly turns the cranks regardless of what the PAS is reading for motion, because throttle and PAS are separate. This particular mid-drive came with two options: throttle only and throttle plus PAS. Throttle only of course does not come with PAS!!! And obviously the cranks don't keep spinning if the throttle is off or no mid-drive could ever have a throttle to begin with. If you have a throttle and no freewheel or clutch, and you let off the throttle, the electric power stops, correct? Why would the cranks keep turning if the throttle is off even if there was no freewheel/clutch, and instead just a normal gear or small chainring instead? Makes no sense. The throttle would turn the inner chainring (and inner chain) regardless of whether there was a freewheel attached or not. The freewheel is simply there to help manually crank the pedals under human power if the electric power is off. The freewheel has nothing to do with turning off the electric power itself. There is an electrical component which initiates that 'off' function, not a mechanical one.
The freewheel or clutch is only there to manually pedal if the motor is off, that's the only conclusion I have after thinking about the first two issues above. Otherwise, the Bafang dudes with partially frozen clutches would be crashing all over the place, and mid-drive throttles could not work correctly, unless some PAS detector was looking directly at the throttle gear driving the cranks, which is redundant. The PAS is only there to sense movement and activate the motor during pedaling. That's all it does. It's not some high-tech NASA invention. The PAS would have no idea if the freewheel were removed on the inner chainring unless that freewheel also had magnets that signaled movement to the PAS sensor.
Correct? Or not.
