Motor advice 1500-watt leaf?

[Jenming]

I am working on my second bike and looking for some confirmation on my motor choice (Leaf 1500 rear DD), or alternate advice.

My current bile is an old sensorless front tire DD kit running at 52v 20a. Runs about 30 mph on flats. It’s a lot of fun but my major complaints are not enough power to deal with hills / headwinds and maintain 30 mph and a lot of stuttering at the start unless I go really lightly on the power (I believe this is due to the lack of hall sensors).

My primary needs are:

First, in town - 25 mph speed limit with lots of traffic lights and basically on a hill (1-6 grade). What I would like to see for this area is 20-30 mph and more power than my current setup.

Second, near my house - 35 mph speed limit with little stopping and relatively flat. I would like to be going 30-40 mph here instead of 20-30. A cruise speed of 35 mph with a top speed of 40 would be ideal so I can deal with a little wind or the occasional hill without losing speed (at the very least without dropping below 30).

My secondary goals are:

I would like to stick with 52v if possible – but if I need to change to meet my goals that could be a future upgrade as long as the system works well enough at 52v.

I have a full suspension Santa Cruz Superlight that I am converting. So unsprung weight is a concern (TBH I don’t know how much of a concern, I would like to get some input here).

Solution:

It looks like a 1500-watt leafmotor running on 52v 40a should accomplish all of my goals except low unsprung weight.

These threads have been very helpful as has the ebike.ca motor sim.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=66489
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62939

Other options?

Maybe a 72-volt Mac?

It seems like a mid-drive would be good for this scenario, having different gearing for the 25mph / 35mph and no unsprung weight. Potential for off-roading that I'll probably never use? Maybe a GNG cyclone or X1 Pro? BBS? But the BBS look underpowered for 30-40 mph. And the others have their own quirks and are expensive with drive train wear concerns at highpower.

I guess this was a long post, if you're still reading, thank you! Any reason not to go with the leaf motor? Any advice on the unsprung weight? Anyone really think the mid-drive is the way to go? Other comments?

Thank you!

 

[bakaneko]

I would go with the Cyclone. Not sure why the GNG version is so expensive I see the upgrades. Here are my two key upgrade points with Cyclone: 1, there is a nylon planetary gear set in it if possible upgrade to metal especially for high speeds 30+ and 2, the whole bottom bracket bending... just wedge a 2x2+ painted black wood block in there and its all good, LOL no need for fancy aluminum truss... Other than that its a great motor very efficient and high torque. In terms of gearing, just keep it on one or two; no need to switch through all gears as it just does not have enough power to make a big difference at top gear. luna and sickbikeparts sell the cyclone 3kw for $387. shop around. also the cyclone controller 40A takes 36-72V nominal so you can use your old battery for it.

if hub, you better get a geared one due to your hills.

 

[problemaddict]

I've got a leaf powered BMX bike and a Cyclone 3k on a full-susp mountain bike.

The leaf has been awesome, flawless, but it is NOT light. However, on my 3mi mostly flat commute it handles fine and runs 42mph top speed with a 4t winding on a 20" bmx wheel with moped tires on it. I've never climbed any significant hills, but I think Neptronix has a video in his mega-thread where he climbs a significant hill w/ the Leaf. The leaf is way too heavy for a BMX bike doing BMX things, but for a full-sized street-commuter, I don't think you can go wrong. What does the ebikes.ca simulator say about it overheating up your 6deg hill?

The cyclone is cool too, but very finicky and fragile. I've broken a few chains and even tore the left side motor mount at the lower bolt hole. If you need to rely on it for commuting, I'd be wary of these. The bike is really fun on the trails and bombing around town. On 72v I've had it up to 47mph...

 

[Yardman]

Go with the Cyclone. The low central location of the motor breeds remarkable control and the lack of unsprung weight makes the bike behave like stock until the motor is kicked on. I put one on a 21” GT Aggressor Pro that came as a 24 speed. It has 27.5” tires. I got the 40 amp version of the Cyclone from Luna Cycle with a 48t/48t chainring that turned the bike into an 8 speed with the stock 11-34 rear. The battery is a 52 volt 20 ah triangle battery with a 40 amp BMS from Amazon. Fully hopped up the battery puts out 58.6 volts which means 2344 watts at the crank. I am 6’2” and weigh 235 pounds and combined with the XL frame I block a lot of air. First and second gear are almost unusable, unless you like to pop wheelies, because of the torque. Third gear will climb any staircase in North America. Fourth gear will clamber up hills like a billy goat. Fifth gear will embarrass city traffic from stop light to stop light. Mostly I just leave it in sixth until the itch happens. Top speed in eighth gear on motor only is 34 mph. Because of the gear reduction it is possible to pedal along in gears six thru eight with the motor at full boil and doing so yields a top speed of 41 mph on level ground. There is only 1 road in my county that I can’t draw a speeding ticket. As the GT is a hard tail I added a suspension seat post for single track duty. My last ride lasted 20.87 miles at an average speed of 19.7 mph and used 35% of the battery. Extrapolating those figures yields a range of over 58 miles. As always your mileage may vary but I make it a point to pedal as much as possible. I have a 1500 watt DD hub motor powered fat bike and the power delivery of the Cyclone is explosive in comparison. All together the bike weighs 61 pounds. Delivered to my door the motor cost $379 USD. The stock bike was $358 all in. The battery yet another $385. The seat post was $30 and a trip to Walmart cost $9 for a single speed chain for the mid drive. $1161 is pretty hard to beat for a brand new bike with a 50 mile range and a 41 mph top speed that gets 1166 MPGe!