Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh

[bionicdan]

What's a good charger for 2 packs of Multistar 6S 16000mAh? Is iCharger 306B a good choice?
K

I always had lifepo4 and always had varying levels of annoyance getting good chargers to balance them. But since I got these multistar packs any old hobby charger seems to do the job. Its up to you how fast your willing to pay for I guess.

I think the 306b will give you 30amps with a 24v supply and 15amps at 12v . It has 500ma of bleed current for balancing which is slightly above average.

My cellpro 10xp has 1000ma for balancing and is the quickest at that job.

I also use a Turnigy Reaktor and charges just as fast but takes an extra 10 minutes to balance (I think its a copy of a 206b icharger or something).

The annoying part is the more you spend on chargers the more you will spend on psu's.

 

[k90211lee]

What's a good charger for 2 packs of Multistar 6S 16000mAh? Is iCharger 306B a good choice?
K

I think the 306b will give you 30amps with a 24v supply and 15amps at 12v . It has 500ma of bleed current for balancing which is slightly above average.

The annoying part is the more you spend on chargers the more you will spend on psu's.

How fast 306b will charge 30amps with a 24v supply vs. 15amps at 12v on 2 Multistar 6S 1600mAh packs?

How do you do the math?

K

 

[bionicdan]

Sorry I didnt do any maths that why I said I think. So its more like 17-19a on 12v? 500w devided by 25v is it? Maybe do a search on here for a 306b owner.

What threw me is a vague memory that you dont really get 1000w into 6s from the icharger. More like 750w on 24v. Its good to know all the facts while your enamoured by a big wattage number lol, then you can compare apples to apples.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1649131

These calculators for cellpro make it easy to get an idea what will happen at differnt inputs.

http://www.revolectrix.com/Calculators_main.htm (use the generic one to get an idea of any rc charger)

 

[Mad_Q]

can an imax B6 charge one of these Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh? can it charge 2 of them at the same time? approx. how long might it take to charge? sorry if these are dumb questions , new to this and trying to figure out most affordable way to get 44.4v 15ah or 16ah battery pack... I've been reading through these forums for days, I have learned a lot, I appreciate this forum a lot!

 

[teslanv]

If I am not mistaken, the imax B6 is a 6S 50W charger. This means it can add 50 watt-hours of energy to a battery every hour.
A 6S 16Ah battery has (22.2V x 16Ah) 355 watt-hours of capacity, so if it fully discharged, it would take over 7 hours to charge just 1 of those batteries. You can charge 2 of those batteries in parallel with an appropriate harness, but it would take twice as long to charge.
In comparison, the iCharger 106B+ is a 250W charger and can charge 5 times faster than the imax B6 charger.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...scharger_1_6_Cells_GENUINE_US_Warehouse_.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...us_250W_6s_Balance_Charger_US_Warehouse_.html

 

[Mad_Q]

thanks, that is helpfull, adding the $88 cost of that charger would put me right around $350 for 2 6s 16000mah multistar lipo's and 2 voltage alarms and charger. For that same pice on ebay, i can get a 48v 15ah lithium pack with charger from v-power or a 48v 15ah no name lifepo4 with charger, any thoughts on what might be the better options?

 

[teslanv]

thanks, that is helpfull, adding the $88 cost of that charger would put me right around $350 for 2 6s 16000mah multistar lipo's and 2 voltage alarms and charger. For that same pice on ebay, i can get a 48v 15ah lithium pack with charger from v-power or a 48v 15ah no name lifepo4 with charger, any thoughts on what might be the better options?

For performance, get the Multi-stars. For safety go with the LiFePO4. It's one or the other, I am afraid.
The Multistars can output 64A continuous. The LiFePO4 - 15A continuous.
Oh, and you'll need a Power supply for the iCharger... Something around 250W and 12-24V. (18V or higher is better for the iCharger)
http://www.lipoconnectionsolutions.com/12v-47A-575w-Power-Supply-for-RC-Chargers-1247.htm

 

[docnjoj]

UNless V-power has drastically changed the way they assemble batteries, I would avoid them. Many posts about problems.
otherDoc

 

[Mad_Q]

yes i had read those posts about v-power but one of the last postings mentioned they were doing new pacs with better technology / assembly... has anyone recently bought vpower battery pacs? any feedback?

also, from what i've read, the cycle life of a lifepo4 is much better then lipo packs, i understand you can do certain things to extend the cycle life of lipo's but wouldnt the same apply to lifepo4 to extend its cycle life? is the power difference of two multistar 6s 16000mah lipo packs Vs. a 48v 15ah lifepo4 that noticeable? its for a 26" 1000w 48v ebay rear hub motor kit, not looking for crazy speed or distance, but 10-12miles and 20-25mph would be nice... installing kit on full suspension mountain bike wich has a side-car for my daughter...

Here's the lifepo4 im considering:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48v-15ah-LiFePO4-Battery-5A-Charger-BMS-Electric-Bicycle-Kits-Sea-8-Weeks-Gift-/171320560736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e3804c60

oh, one more thing, i understand lipo's shouldnt be kept at 4.1v for very long, is it the same for lifepo4 or could i keep that charged and ready to go for a few (3-5) days before using it?

thanks for everyone's help!

 

[wineboyrider]

yes i had read those posts about v-power but one of the last postings mentioned they were doing new pacs with better technology / assembly... has anyone recently bought vpower battery pacs? any feedback?

also, from what i've read, the cycle life of a lifepo4 is much better then lipo packs, i understand you can do certain things to extend the cycle life of lipo's but wouldnt the same apply to lifepo4 to extend its cycle life? is the power difference of two multistar 6s 16000mah lipo packs Vs. a 48v 15ah lifepo4 that noticeable? its for a 26" 1000w 48v ebay rear hub motor kit, not looking for crazy speed or distance, but 10-12miles and 20-25mph would be nice... installing kit on full suspension mountain bike wich has a side-car for my daughter...

Here's the lifepo4 im considering:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48v-15ah-LiFePO4-Battery-5A-Charger-BMS-Electric-Bicycle-Kits-Sea-8-Weeks-Gift-/171320560736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e3804c60

oh, one more thing, i understand lipo's shouldnt be kept at 4.1v for very long, is it the same for lifepo4 or could i keep that charged and ready to go for a few (3-5) days before using it?

thanks for everyone's help!

A 12s lipo pack has a lower nominal voltage 44v than a 48v lifepo4 pack, but they are quite comparable in terms of power output in other words my 48v ping pack feels like a 12s lipo pack of around 12s lipo. The only way to know is to do the math of the resistance of the pack.

 

[LuboN]

Hey people, you really don´t need to balance charge your battery each time... After balance charged and tested few cycles (to be sure all cells are OK) you can continue with bulk charging them without worries... Just use power supply with adjustable voltage and current limit (for cc/cv charge characteristic) and set max voltage that corresponds to 4,15V/cell (so you have some room for small voltage differencies over time and it also extends the battery cycle life). From time to time check cell voltages to see if everything is ok and balance if needed (I did not need to do the balance for over half a year and the cells voltages are pretty close each other - turnigy 20C 5Ah 14s2p used)
My multistars (6s 16Ah) arrived so fine I did not needed to balance charge them at all...
300 cycles stated from manufacturer means much more cycles when used at lower C rates (ebike use) and not charged to 4,20 / discharged too deep. There are also few of us capable doing so many cycles through calendar life of the battery.
For those wanting 10s configuration, did you notice there is also 4s 16Ah version? Coupled with the 6s 16Ah you get 10s...

 

[Ypedal]

When bulk charging RC Lipo, take the time to check voltages on EVERY CYCLE in my personal opinion... catch a problem before it happens...

I have multiple bikes running like this, 24 cell ( 100v ) and i check before , during and after i charge, every , single, time.. and never charge blindly.

 

[LuboN]

Of course, you can check cell voltages as often as you feel necessary. But the point is, you don´t need to disassemble your battery or charge packs separately using complicated and pricy equipment. Just leave some maintenance access to balancing connectors for voltage monitoring.
Another charging tip - charge your battery to cca 3,9V/cell after ride, this way batterry is not stressed with sitting at high voltage for some time, and before another ride charge it to level needed for the trip - for example, for short rides I don´t charge at all, 3,9V per cell is enough for the job, and mostly I charge to 4,0-4,1V. Only charge to 4,15V when I plan to need maximum capacity. To charge from 3,9V does not take much time, usually it is done before I am ready to go. And I am also able to fast charge during my trip with just one charger in my backpack. I am using power supply unit with cc/cv capabilities:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-0-60V-0-6-7A-Switching-Power-Supply-Current-Control-Charger-LED-CCTV-U30-/381208473883?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c1cbb11b
This seller has wide selection of power supplies suitable for most battery packs. The voltage and current can be precisely tuned.

 

[giblet]

Hi - could someone recommend a PSU and charger for these batteries that is relatively quick, i.e. 2 -3 hours, and can also balance the batteries when required for a decent price and is user friendly to setup. I'd also like to be able to charge 2 of these batteries at the same time.

Thanks in advance

 

[KINNINVIEKID]

I use a pair of Meanwell NES 350-48 power supplies wired in parallel to charge my 16Ah Multistars and as they are CC/CV they ramp down to 0A when fully charged.
Voltage is adjustable on the outside and mine are set to 49.3 volts so just a shade over 4.1V per cell.
I have a wattmeter attached so I can keep an eye on whats going in and also use a cellchecker regularly to keep an eye on individual cell voltages.

If they do need balancing I use a cheap Hobbyking charger but as long as I keep over 3.6V per cell they stay in balance.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mean-Well-MW-48V-7-3A-350W-AC-DC-Switching-Power-Supply-NES-350-48-UL-PSU/370887902167?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32221%26meid%3D3adf19bfa5134d0797874cdfba938255%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D400905641576

 

[kudos]

I bought two of these packs one year ago.

One of them now has a weak cell and the other has puffed already, and that's with light use.

A bit miffed actually because I was about to buy a couple more but now I'm not sure....

Kudos

 

[bionicdan]

Iv had three arrive with low cells. One puffed, one discharges itself by 2ah a month roughly and one is usable if I keep cycling it weekly. If you get a low cell (say 3.80 when the rest say 3.90v) cut one of the balance leads and say its faulty. Dont get ripped off with these obviously faulty packs. They refuse to accept the low cell is a sign of danger.

Mine exploded when I was out and my mum was in the shed oops.

Id like to know what causes this? cells not matched, cells not charged high enough on assembly? or just cos hobbyking

 

[menvert]

I bought two of these packs one year ago.

One of them now has a weak cell and the other has puffed already, and that's with light use.

A bit miffed actually because I was about to buy a couple more but now I'm not sure....

Kudos

Yeah, if anyone else wonders - little over a year and I have had the same, 6th cell on my 2 packs is now Low voltage with one being drastically so. After my standard commute all cells nice at about 3.7 ish but then 6th cell will be about .04 lower on the bad pack it was as 3.0 yesterday (.7 lower)

I have no bms but would balance from time to time, usually monthly, never any cells abnormal until about a month ago when I balanced and end cells were low, TBH I had been lazy at this stage and hadn't balanced for 2 months.
I got around 200 charge cycles typically DoD would be ~ 85% 15A draw, in the last few months they also started being warm at the end of my 45 min commute, and one is a bit puffy now.
Always charged to 50.2 v rather than 100% @ 50.4 mostly only charged night before use, but alas the life span was terrible even though I though I took good care.

Think I need a proper battery pack this time... or do I go 3 x 4s of these again, which are on special right now ( they are just so cheap $220 delivered from local warehouse). The pain of just replacing single cells is unlikely to be worth the annoying soldering job...

 

[wineboyrider]

I just bought 6 4s 16000mah Multistars and got all healthy cells and packs no duds. I paid $300 for a 1400wh battery pack. So far so good I went on my first long distance ride the other day and I easily covered 30 miles on this pack...

 

[menvert]

I just bought 6 4s 16000mah Multistars and got all healthy cells and packs no duds. I paid $300 for a 1400wh battery pack. So far so good I went on my first long distance ride the other day and I easily covered 30 miles on this pack...

Yep, mine were the same all perfect cells when new and got about 7500k (4600miles) of great performance up till the failure, now that 1 cell can't make the 36k/22miles commute whereas 45k/28miles was max range on my setup while healthy(stopping @ 3.4v/cell)

Unfortunately the cost of a proper 18650 or NiCoMn pack is like 3-4x times more

 

[motomech]

I bought two of these packs one year ago.

One of them now has a weak cell and the other has puffed already, and that's with light use.

A bit miffed actually because I was about to buy a couple more but now I'm not sure....

Kudos

Yeah, if anyone else wonders - little over a year and I have had the same, 6th cell on my 2 packs is now Low voltage with one being drastically so. After my standard commute all cells nice at about 3.7 ish but then 6th cell will be about .04 lower on the bad pack it was as 3.0 yesterday (.7 lower)

I have no bms but would balance from time to time, usually monthly, never any cells abnormal until about a month ago when I balanced and end cells were low, TBH I had been lazy at this stage and hadn't balanced for 2 months.
I got around 200 charge cycles typically DoD would be ~ 85% 15A draw, in the last few months they also started being warm at the end of my 45 min commute, and one is a bit puffy now.
Always charged to 50.2 v rather than 100% @ 50.4 mostly only charged night before use, but alas the life span was terrible even though I though I took good care.

Think I need a proper battery pack this time... or do I go 3 x 4s of these again, which are on special right now ( they are just so cheap $220 delivered from local warehouse). The pain of just replacing single cells is unlikely to be worth the annoying soldering job...

The Multistars have the new style metal tabs on the cells that make unsoldering/soldering fairly easy. But what could you do with a tired 5S brick?
You got 200 cycles with rather sketchy care, so how could you be disappointed?
4S + 4S + 4S is more trouble to wire, charge and balance than 6S + 6S.
The Multistar 6S 5200 mAh is on sale in Aus., but unfortunately on backorder

 

[menvert]

The Multistars have the new style metal tabs on the cells that make unsoldering/soldering fairly easy. But what could you do with a tired 5S brick?
You got 200 cycles with rather sketchy care, so how could you be disappointed?
4S + 4S + 4S is more trouble to wire, charge and balance than 6S + 6S.
The Multistar 6S 5200 mAh is on sale in Aus., but unfortunately on backorder

That's it; replace a cell or remove one but how long will the remaining last?
A bit more trouble wiring 4s and no longer symmetrical for my pannier bags, but 50% cheaper than the 6s. The 5200 I'd need 6 to get the range, so that'll be even more wiring.

True that 200 cycles is acceptable and for the price they have been great. I was hoping for a bit more due to low discharge rate compared to spec, but as you say I dropped the ball regarding balancing, might have gotten another 50-100 cycles, which is where I am tempted to go for the expensive option with a BMS and batteries so lazy care won't be a big issue & they should last 3x longer, just don't have the cash...

 

[wineboyrider]

I stop at 3.6.

 

[Nightstone]

Been using the multistar batts since they first came out for my Quads and FPV planes. I have had really good luck with them and occasionally get a dud.

One thing I have learned when dealing with hobbyking is that you need to distribute your possible losses. 2-6s vs 3-4s. I would rather get a cheaper 4s dud than a pricey 6s dud. Harnesses are easy to make.

Same goes for chargers... You cook an expensive 4 port charger and your going to be crying. Use 4 singles and a big PSU and loosing one is not that big a deal.

Fyi... New to forum. Got parts for my first 2 builds on the way.

NS

 

[menvert]

Been using the multistar batts since they first came out for my Quads and FPV planes. I have had really good luck with them and occasionally get a dud.

One thing I have learned when dealing with hobbyking is that you need to distribute your possible losses. 2-6s vs 3-4s. I would rather get a cheaper 4s dud than a pricey 6s dud. Harnesses are easy to make.

Same goes for chargers... You cook an expensive 4 port charger and your going to be crying. Use 4 singles and a big PSU and loosing one is not that big a deal.

Fyi... New to forum. Got parts for my first 2 builds on the way.

NS

I just ordered 3x 4s on special + had a 10% off code so almost 50% off, too hard to resist, but this time I also got a bag so I can house on my rear rack instead of in pannier bags (one reason I didn't balance often enough as I had to pull them outta there)

Very true re: distribute losses, I got the Turnigy MEGA 1000W balance charger for the 6s, which was very disappointing as the balance circuit is basically useless as it sometimes misreads and would attempt to overcharge a cell by 0.1v (another reason I don't balance so much as I have to bulk charge then balance with my 50w SkyRC)