Samd
10 MW
Hmm, maybe an intenrmittent hall issue killing the timing occasionally during a revolution and causing heat?
MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3
- Thread starter Allex
- Start date
Samd said:
does that mean "false phase settings"...wrong phase settings?...what kind of settings would be typical on a V3 4T?...
my 5T V2 motor wires were almost fused together using only 35 battery amps and 80-90 phase amps not sure what is wrong...even on flat ground the motor was getting hot maybe the phase wires are just too thin?
Allex
100 MW
Omg, tell us your advanced motor settings in the Adaptto menu. :wink:
Allex
100 MW
Omg, tell us your advanced motor settings in the Adaptto menu. I did tell you what to set before, did you follow my advice? :wink:
Allex said:
if you are talking to me,think you set set acceleration to "---" which i did do...will not have my bike till monday what other settings should i be looking at?
here is photo of inside of V3 4T
my V2 motor phase wires started to fuse together at only 35 battery amps/about 80-90 phase amps
Attachments
Allex
100 MW
Acceleration has nothing to do with your motor settings that just a limiter on how fast you accelerate
The values you need to look at are:
Angl Corr (should be aroun -5/+5) Some ride with -30/+30 and this gets you low performance, will kill the motor due to overheat.
PWR timing (see below)
IND timing (see below)
all this you find in advanced menu. Follow steps 1 to 7, the rest you can ignore for now.
Tuning by Doc:
Here it is step by step:
Note1: you will need to recalibrate above values when when volting up or down on your bike.
Note2: Both manual and auto tuning should be done at the charge state that you are riding in mostly. So don't do it on a fully charged battery nor on a discharged one.
1: Set OVS (fielf weakening) to 0
2: Do a THROTTLE CALIBRATION (thr linear)
3: Lift up the wheel accelerate to 10-15km/h and holding this speed, adjust your ANGLE CORR so you have a smooth rotation.
If the angle is wrong you will hear it and also the wheel will turn more slowly. So keep adjusting it until you have the most silent spin at this speed.
You can also test it on a very long stretch. Find a flat road and drive 15km/h and try and finally keep setting you get the lowest possible temp.
(Angle corr setting compensate for the inaccuracy of the Hall sensors installed. This inaccuracy is the difference between the applied magnetic field of the stator and the Hall sensor angle readings. Since three Hall sensors are installed, this setting is the average deviation of the three gauges from zero. The Deviation of each individual hall sensor is determined and automatically compensated during the motor auto-detect process.)
4: Same goes with IND TIMING. But this time you need to have a constant cruising speed (ex ~35-50km/h). If you do not know what the cruising speed of the motor, then look at"debug" screen, In the line "OA: xxxx DA = xxxx Axxxx" see "Axxxx". Look at the first digit after the letter "A" and gradually speed up motor. It will begin to change in the following order: 8,9, A, B, C, D, E, F. Accordingly, 8 corresponds to the minimum rotation, and F to the maximum. You need a speed corresponding to the letter "D". After reaching motor cruising speed start changing parameter "ind timing". Select a value where the cruising speed is achieved with minimal effort (ie, the minimum throttle). If the wheel does not spin or vice versa spins very quickly, ind timing is off. Very high speed is not valuable. Keep current consumption at no more than 7.5 amps. Under strong throttle, settings above certain values will make the motor begin to slow and get noisy. This should be avoided, reduce the throttle input. Value generally should be slightly less than the threshold at which the motor begins to slow and get noisy.
(Ind timing sets the delay compensation between the signal hall sensor and the control signal of the controller. When rotating at high speeds, the signal from the sensors has been delayed, so you need to adjust the timing. Accordingly, it is the sum of the controller Hall sensor filter circuit delay and the controller CPU processing time. Determined automatically during the motor auto-detect process.)
5. Adjust POWER TIMING so you have maximum torque when you go WOT from 50km/h(about 1/2 of your top speed).(usually values: 0.17 for high-speed motors, 0.3-0.5 for average and 0.7-1.2 for slow motors). PWR timing sets the lead angle shift in relation to the phase current. The greater the inductance of the windings of the motor is, the stronger the control signal phase currents. This setting compensates BEMF.
6: Set OVS timing( field weakening), Optimal values are usually 2-4. OVS timing setting responsible for extra motor speed when the battery voltage is not high enough to achieve the maximum vehicle speed. When the PWM cycle is nearly 100%, the controller increases the lead angle, which enables additional speed (and reduced efficiency of the motor). Only if the voltage is limiting the maximum motor speed, not the wind resistance, will this work.
7: To avoid damage to the controller it is recommended to set the maximum speed limit when configuring profiles somewhere around 20% more than the maximum speed of your vehicle on the road
8: Shunt2 – Power profiles compensation. If the maximum current shown on the ammeter while in use differs from the maximum current set in the power mode profiles, change this value. Adjusting this value will change the settings of current profiles (power mode profiles), while the actual current used does not change. This setting is used to fine tune the displayed current while in use to match the actual controller current limits.
Other important parameters:
Wire R - Stator resistance at standard temperature (24 degrees C). Determined automatically during the motor auto-detect process.
Motor KV - Measured in arbitrary units. Determined automatically during the motor auto-detect process. Wire R and Motor KV values are needed for a new algorithm for calculating the phase current (based on the current speed, control voltage and winding resistance, and not from the control voltage and current, as in the standard version). This algorithm is required to reverse the engine braking, and also improves the smoothness and precision of the phase current limits. It includes the following setting:
Wire R PHC - The use of an alternative algorithm for calculating the phase current. Allows you to calculate the current even at zero cycle of the PWM that is required for proper zero crossing at work reverse braking. Important: when this setting is turned off, the motor KV will be sensed automatically if the motor spins up to medium speed and the throttle is released. After you enable this setting, automatic motor KV sensing does not occur.
Doc
The values you need to look at are:
Angl Corr (should be aroun -5/+5) Some ride with -30/+30 and this gets you low performance, will kill the motor due to overheat.
PWR timing (see below)
IND timing (see below)
all this you find in advanced menu. Follow steps 1 to 7, the rest you can ignore for now.
Tuning by Doc:
Here it is step by step:
Note1: you will need to recalibrate above values when when volting up or down on your bike.
Note2: Both manual and auto tuning should be done at the charge state that you are riding in mostly. So don't do it on a fully charged battery nor on a discharged one.
1: Set OVS (fielf weakening) to 0
2: Do a THROTTLE CALIBRATION (thr linear)
3: Lift up the wheel accelerate to 10-15km/h and holding this speed, adjust your ANGLE CORR so you have a smooth rotation.
If the angle is wrong you will hear it and also the wheel will turn more slowly. So keep adjusting it until you have the most silent spin at this speed.
You can also test it on a very long stretch. Find a flat road and drive 15km/h and try and finally keep setting you get the lowest possible temp.
(Angle corr setting compensate for the inaccuracy of the Hall sensors installed. This inaccuracy is the difference between the applied magnetic field of the stator and the Hall sensor angle readings. Since three Hall sensors are installed, this setting is the average deviation of the three gauges from zero. The Deviation of each individual hall sensor is determined and automatically compensated during the motor auto-detect process.)
4: Same goes with IND TIMING. But this time you need to have a constant cruising speed (ex ~35-50km/h). If you do not know what the cruising speed of the motor, then look at"debug" screen, In the line "OA: xxxx DA = xxxx Axxxx" see "Axxxx". Look at the first digit after the letter "A" and gradually speed up motor. It will begin to change in the following order: 8,9, A, B, C, D, E, F. Accordingly, 8 corresponds to the minimum rotation, and F to the maximum. You need a speed corresponding to the letter "D". After reaching motor cruising speed start changing parameter "ind timing". Select a value where the cruising speed is achieved with minimal effort (ie, the minimum throttle). If the wheel does not spin or vice versa spins very quickly, ind timing is off. Very high speed is not valuable. Keep current consumption at no more than 7.5 amps. Under strong throttle, settings above certain values will make the motor begin to slow and get noisy. This should be avoided, reduce the throttle input. Value generally should be slightly less than the threshold at which the motor begins to slow and get noisy.
(Ind timing sets the delay compensation between the signal hall sensor and the control signal of the controller. When rotating at high speeds, the signal from the sensors has been delayed, so you need to adjust the timing. Accordingly, it is the sum of the controller Hall sensor filter circuit delay and the controller CPU processing time. Determined automatically during the motor auto-detect process.)
5. Adjust POWER TIMING so you have maximum torque when you go WOT from 50km/h(about 1/2 of your top speed).(usually values: 0.17 for high-speed motors, 0.3-0.5 for average and 0.7-1.2 for slow motors). PWR timing sets the lead angle shift in relation to the phase current. The greater the inductance of the windings of the motor is, the stronger the control signal phase currents. This setting compensates BEMF.
6: Set OVS timing( field weakening), Optimal values are usually 2-4. OVS timing setting responsible for extra motor speed when the battery voltage is not high enough to achieve the maximum vehicle speed. When the PWM cycle is nearly 100%, the controller increases the lead angle, which enables additional speed (and reduced efficiency of the motor). Only if the voltage is limiting the maximum motor speed, not the wind resistance, will this work.
7: To avoid damage to the controller it is recommended to set the maximum speed limit when configuring profiles somewhere around 20% more than the maximum speed of your vehicle on the road
8: Shunt2 – Power profiles compensation. If the maximum current shown on the ammeter while in use differs from the maximum current set in the power mode profiles, change this value. Adjusting this value will change the settings of current profiles (power mode profiles), while the actual current used does not change. This setting is used to fine tune the displayed current while in use to match the actual controller current limits.
Other important parameters:
Wire R - Stator resistance at standard temperature (24 degrees C). Determined automatically during the motor auto-detect process.
Motor KV - Measured in arbitrary units. Determined automatically during the motor auto-detect process. Wire R and Motor KV values are needed for a new algorithm for calculating the phase current (based on the current speed, control voltage and winding resistance, and not from the control voltage and current, as in the standard version). This algorithm is required to reverse the engine braking, and also improves the smoothness and precision of the phase current limits. It includes the following setting:
Wire R PHC - The use of an alternative algorithm for calculating the phase current. Allows you to calculate the current even at zero cycle of the PWM that is required for proper zero crossing at work reverse braking. Important: when this setting is turned off, the motor KV will be sensed automatically if the motor spins up to medium speed and the throttle is released. After you enable this setting, automatic motor KV sensing does not occur.
Doc
markz
100 TW
......man.....I gotta read that when I am at the "zero" mark.
I just thought it was bout pluggin 'er in and letting 'er rip without too much ampere's to burn the windings. No big hills at full throttle, too much weight. Etc etc etc etc.
Im contemplating selling my 4T with upgraded phase wires and brand new halls and buying a 3T.
I'm in the arena of John in CR of slamming that bad boy 3T "MXUS 3KW V2" in a small rim. Got a 1.60 x 16" MC ready to rock 'n roll. Just seeking cheap spokes. Got some spokes scoped out, non online, just used crap at the local shop. Non are labelled so I need to buy a spoke ruler. Either way, I am of the belief to slam a low tooth count motor aka high speed motor, in as small a wheel as you please. If I had the doe, Johns motor would be the one.
I just thought it was bout pluggin 'er in and letting 'er rip without too much ampere's to burn the windings. No big hills at full throttle, too much weight. Etc etc etc etc.
Im contemplating selling my 4T with upgraded phase wires and brand new halls and buying a 3T.
I'm in the arena of John in CR of slamming that bad boy 3T "MXUS 3KW V2" in a small rim. Got a 1.60 x 16" MC ready to rock 'n roll. Just seeking cheap spokes. Got some spokes scoped out, non online, just used crap at the local shop. Non are labelled so I need to buy a spoke ruler. Either way, I am of the belief to slam a low tooth count motor aka high speed motor, in as small a wheel as you please. If I had the doe, Johns motor would be the one.
markz said:
when running small wheels it is advisable to use fat and soft tires together with low pressure. otherwise you will experience worse handling compared to 17" wheels or larger.
i went from 16" moped to 17" (both moped tires) on one bike and the overall handling was noticeable much better after that. mostly when riding over potholes, better grip when cornering on uneven roads etc..
choosing a wheelsize when running a DD hub is all about making compromises, or you pay a few billion dollars for straight and smooth roads around your house
Allex said:
so which is it 0 or 2? OR do you just temporarily adjust OVS to zero while doing steps #1-5???....
AND are you guys saying even with my V2 motor with thin wiring that it should not get hot at 35 battery amps/80 phase amps on flat ground?
I was told one guy with MXUS/Adappto combination was having trouble with heat UNLESS he takes it out of sinewave which does not seem intuitive
Allex
100 MW
OVS is just overspeed function.
If you are not happy with you top speed you can adjust this. Otherwise leave it on 0 all the time.
Leave it at 0 when doing autodetect or manual tuning.
All this is described in the manual and yes, if your motor overheats(if the temp reading are correct) at 35/80Amps then you have wrong settings. There is no problem with adaptto/mxus combo, just problems in the settings. So you need to post your settings here, without it we are blind and cannot help you further.
Like this:
If you are not happy with you top speed you can adjust this. Otherwise leave it on 0 all the time.
Leave it at 0 when doing autodetect or manual tuning.
All this is described in the manual and yes, if your motor overheats(if the temp reading are correct) at 35/80Amps then you have wrong settings. There is no problem with adaptto/mxus combo, just problems in the settings. So you need to post your settings here, without it we are blind and cannot help you further.
Like this:
Allex
100 MW
YEah def wrong settings on the controller with those toasted wires Look at the burnt paper and black windings where the halls are.
I took a spin on a
Adaptto Midi-e @ 120DC/300phase amps
MXUS 3000 4T hub motor in 24" MTB
And during the video the motor only got to 80C, thats with full throttle accelerations and stops. Still with stock phase wires.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgpo9mdpwyM
I took a spin on a
Adaptto Midi-e @ 120DC/300phase amps
MXUS 3000 4T hub motor in 24" MTB
And during the video the motor only got to 80C, thats with full throttle accelerations and stops. Still with stock phase wires.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgpo9mdpwyM
Rix
100 TW
Allex said:
Damn, I am so glad I had you set my Max E up with my MXUS 4t. I would have no doubt burned something up figuring things out.
Allex
100 MW
Let me know when you have everything up Rick, We need to tune up those values once you have the battery. I did not tune it because I did not know how many s you will run.
I was riding in auto control mode and the angle correction seems to change as i ride...i guess the adappto is "learning"??
also, Wire R PHC NO setting..should i put YES and set Motor KV at 8900 (4T) for best speed?...it auto selects around 7000 KV right now
using only 40 battery amps 90 phase amps in normal mode now took out today at around 40 mph on flat ground motor barely got warm
adappto display says 32 degrees F no matter what?
also, Wire R PHC NO setting..should i put YES and set Motor KV at 8900 (4T) for best speed?...it auto selects around 7000 KV right now
using only 40 battery amps 90 phase amps in normal mode now took out today at around 40 mph on flat ground motor barely got warm
adappto display says 32 degrees F no matter what?
Attachments
Allex
100 MW
Angle Corr do not change.
The values looks OK!
Set T limit to about 266F
Motor Tsense inside mxus is KTY 81, at least in mine. Change it and you should have ambient temp on the display when motor is cold.
Change PWR to 1,5-2,3 (experiment with those, start with 1,5)
The values looks OK!
Set T limit to about 266F
Motor Tsense inside mxus is KTY 81, at least in mine. Change it and you should have ambient temp on the display when motor is cold.
Change PWR to 1,5-2,3 (experiment with those, start with 1,5)
Allex said:
anything detrimental i need to worry about if i adjust PWR levels too high?...on list from doc it said around 1.2 was high
THANKS! will try that...what about Wire R PHC? on "NO" setting it selects around 7000 motor KV which seems low for 4T motor....would putting in 8900 KV and selecting "YES" increase speed?
it says 32 degrees on EVERY frocking sensor setting
..display is in MPH so i assume its farenheit
Allex
100 MW
No, do not worry, the worst that can happen is that you will experience poor performance.
Bummer about thermistor not showing correct value. Try with the one that was in adaptto package.
Regarding KV the value is shown in arbitrary units not the actual kv units dont think you need to touch Wire R PHC.
Bummer about thermistor not showing correct value. Try with the one that was in adaptto package.
Regarding KV the value is shown in arbitrary units not the actual kv units dont think you need to touch Wire R PHC.
Allex said:
generally, should we set "wire R phc" to ON when using hub motors like MXUS 3k, or leave it off?
it would be great to have a list with optimal settings for commonly used motors.
every single motor from the same series is a bit different, but on balance the settings should be good enough, or do i miss something?
72V 40A controller,
i want to get a 3000w motor.. and i am planning on getting a 72V 40A and 24s lipo...my aim is to get about 30 to 40 mph..
Can someone suggest the 72v 40a controller i should go for? Also which battery 24s? amps should i go for?
web links will be great!
i want to get a 3000w motor.. and i am planning on getting a 72V 40A and 24s lipo...my aim is to get about 30 to 40 mph..
Can someone suggest the 72v 40a controller i should go for? Also which battery 24s? amps should i go for?
web links will be great!
Rix
100 TW
rb7 said:
A 72 volt controller is not going to handle 24s. Volts are too high (100.8 hot) for the 4110 Fets most 72 volt controllers come with. You should consider some type of controller with 4115 Fets, most these controllers are rated from 96 to around 132 volts or so.
Samd
10 MW
Where are you from rb7?
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