MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

[madin88]

I'm curious if anyone has tested saturation limits? I remember seeing LFP's dyno testing of 28 or 35mm 9C(?) and getting no more HP above ~4.75kW iirc? Someone else recently mentioned not feeling much difference between 14-18kW on a QS205 iirc...

One thing first:
forget to talk about battery power and battery amps because those values do not include the losses.
basically those motors are limited by torque which means the only thing you should really care about is the phase amps and winding resistance.
than you know the exact amount of power that will be turned into heat.

according to Justins tests he did with one 205 / 28H motor, the saturation starts at around 12,5Nm per 5mm stator width.
The stator design (tooth count) and pole count only play a very small role, so for the most part it is about diameter and width of the stator.
Magnet strength i believe also needs to be considered, but there isn't much differnce between most hub motors (N35 - N38 grade neodymium is mostly used).

Now, roughly it means a 45h motor like mxus will saturate at a torque output of around 110-120Nm, and 50h like QS at 120-130Nm. The newer versions with the stronger and curved magents should make some percent more torque before saturation starts to crop up.

The more torque you require, the more you will like the QSV3.
It is not only more efficienct in producing torque, it also has more copper fill so it will produce additionally less heat at given torque output.

Personally i think the sweet spot of power/handling(regarding mass) is the MXUS V3 in 17" moped wheel.

 

[redline2097]

Recent trials with the hubsink and mxus are yielding 16kw before sketch sheared the magnets off two of my motors. We are in for interesting times. Whilst saturation is important some riding conditions mean longer stretches of needing lighter weight peppered with short bursts of power (its not easy to hold 15kw for long).
I am dying to see what my 35mm v2 motors can take with ferro and hubsink.


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Are you using 3T V3?

 

[Rix]

Recent trials with the hubsink and mxus are yielding 16kw before sketch sheared the magnets off two of my motors. We are in for interesting times. Whilst saturation is important some riding conditions mean longer stretches of needing lighter weight peppered with short bursts of power (its not easy to hold 15kw for long).
I am dying to see what my 35mm v2 motors can take with ferro and hubsink.


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I am too.

 

[redline2097]

So I think I am going with Mxus 4T v3 laced to 17" motorcycle rim with some Shinko 244 tire, so OD should be 22.5". Then add some ferrofluid and streghten those phase wires. This controller:
18F Silent Controller 36-150V VAR.REGEN/BT Progrm/GPS-$199

If aim is to max possible acceleration and hill climbing is this combo solid? I do not need max speed over 60kmh (37mph) I will use 18s or 24s lipo pack. I have already 6x 6s 8000mah graphene turnigys lying around, so
adding two of them isn't a problem.

Any better "budget" solution or choices with windings? Thanks for your help guys.

 

[Samd]

Where are you located?


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[Rix]

So I think I am going with Mxus 4T v3 laced to 17" motorcycle rim with some Shinko 244 tire, so OD should be 22.5". Then add some ferrofluid and streghten those phase wires. This controller:
18F Silent Controller 36-150V VAR.REGEN/BT Progrm/GPS-$199

If aim is to max possible acceleration and hill climbing is this combo solid? I do not need max speed over 60kmh (37mph) I will use 18s or 24s lipo pack. I have already 6x 6s 8000mah graphene turnigys lying around, so
adding two of them isn't a problem.

Any better "budget" solution or choices with windings? Thanks for your help guys.

That will do it.

 

[fechter]

Saturation is really a function of amps x turns, not really torque. The torque is directly proportional to amp-turns but also depends on magnet strength and motor geometry. Knowing the iron type, this can be estimated.

Shearing the magnets off may be partially a result of the glue getting weakened by temperature. Maybe higher temp rated glue might be good.

 

[redline2097]

Where are you located?


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Finland. Why?

I think the motor will run cool at current weather, day temperature at 4 degrees celcius (40 fahrenheit).

 

[madin88]

Saturation is really a function of amps x turns, not really torque. The torque is directly proportional to amp-turns but also depends on magnet strength and motor geometry. Knowing the iron type, this can be estimated.

the simplest way to measure saturation is measuring the torque versus the amps. As soon as it stops to be linear, the saturation is there.
i guess it would be possible to calculate it mathematically, but how many people have the know how for that? It more probabaly needs a computer simulation for that..

yes it would be best to talk about amp turns, because everyone can make direclty use of those numbers (for instance 4T saturates at 150 phase amps so the controller can be set to no more, or a little bit more than this)
FWIK, the iron type isn't that important in view of saturation. there is not much variation between different grades (it's more about the eddy losses).

Shearing the magnets off may be partially a result of the glue getting weakened by temperature. Maybe higher temp rated glue might be good.

yes the temperature, high shear forces together with poor glue could be the reason for loose magnets. in addition it also could be caused by too much stress from the spokes on the iron ring (when moped rims are laced with fat spokes highly tensioned).

 

[redline2097]

How strong is that e-brake on back, can I rely on it or should I just go with hydraulic disc brake I have already fitted on bike?

 

[burner77]

How strong is that e-brake on back, can I rely on it or should I just go with hydraulic disc brake I have already fitted on bike?

slower winding = more ebrake
and is up to the controller settings and speed
you can block you tire with the highest settings
but look also on the highest charge data of you battery
you can get up to 50A or more

 

[Allex]

Got this cool torque arm with my latest motor. But it is not really usable as there is a play between the cogs and in the hole for the axle itself.

 

[brumbrum]

Nice freewheel Allex 8) Where the devil did you get that from?

 

[Merlin]

Crossbreak sell them..
I have a few and could send it maybe with your FF...

 

[Allex]

I get them from MXUS I dont know why pp order motors from them without freewheels =)

 

[brumbrum]

Crossbreak sell them..
I have a few and could send it maybe with your FF...

Yeah , please!

Pm me. Thanks Merlin.

 

[Merlin]

I get them from MXUS I dont know why pp order motors from them without freewheels =)

because they have probably 16T "in stock" but doesnt know that a 12T is out there for the smaller mxus hubs

iam searching years for a 12T that fits on a QS205/cromotor :lol:

 

[brumbrum]

I get them from MXUS I dont know why pp order motors from them without freewheels =)

because they have probably 16T "in stock" but doesnt know that a 12T is out there for the smaller mxus hubs

iam searching years for a 12T that fits on a QS205/cromotor :lol:

So the 12t will definitely fit the mxus 3000? That is a dream freewheel come true.

Anyone know if its a 3/32" or 1/8" ?

 

[cut cat]

Got this cool torque arm with my latest motor. But it is not really usable as there is a play between the cogs and in the hole for the axle itself.

Is this the lace pattern from mxus?

I have laced this way (spokes same direction) and found that 10g spokes touch just nice at spoke cross point.

I have also laced alternating spokes on the motor hub and found a gap at the cross point.

Now which is better or the properly way?

 

[Rix]

Got this cool torque arm with my latest motor. But it is not really usable as there is a play between the cogs and in the hole for the axle itself.

Is this the lace pattern from mxus?

I have laced this way (spokes same direction) and found that 10g spokes touch just nice at spoke cross point.

I have also laced alternating spokes on the motor hub and found a gap at the cross point.

Now which is better or the properly way?

1X, alternating inside to outside. I have laced a dozen wheels or so this way, after a couple of true sessions, the spokes take a set and are virtually maintenance free.

 

[madin88]

So the 12t will definitely fit the mxus 3000? That is a dream freewheel come true.

Anyone know if its a 3/32" or 1/8" ?

It will definitely fit on motors with M14 Axle, but not sure if it also fits the Versions with M16 Axle.
The thread is the same as on Cromotor if that helps.

 

[brumbrum]

So the 12t will definitely fit the mxus 3000? That is a dream freewheel come true.

Anyone know if its a 3/32" or 1/8" ?

It will definitely fit on motors with M14 Axle, but not sure if it also fits the Versions with M16 Axle.
The thread is the same as on Cromotor if that helps.

Arh, ok. Will check with Merlin. I have a cro and mxus v.3 but off the top of my head they both have 16mm axle.
Cheers.

 

[Allex]

cut cat, this is how mxus lace them.

 

[madin88]

I have also laced alternating spokes on the motor hub and found a gap at the cross point.

Now which is better or the properly way?

it is better if the spokes touch

 

[cut cat]

I have also laced alternating spokes on the motor hub and found a gap at the cross point.

Now which is better or the properly way?

it is better if the spokes touch

Thanks Alex.

Madin88, im no expert hence the call out. I have heard that when spokes touch it adds strength to wheel. It does this by spreading load accros 2 spokes oppesed a single one. Most bicycles do this including motorbikes. Exception are to Harley's when they use a 5mm spoke or straight lace pattern.