Need advice/ vandalized trike

Joined
Sep 5, 2022
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3
Hello all!

I am trying to get this Worksman etrike going again. It was left at my workplace a couple few years ago, missing the battery and with a flat tire. It sat in a shop until covered with dust and 3 flat tires. I've cleaned it up and resolved the tire issue. Bicycle side of things seems okay, except for needing a new brake cable for front caliper. Has rear coaster brake. 3 speed Shimano Nexus drivetrain. Front hub motor.

I'm wondering whether it would be 36 or 48 volt. It seems to have reverse as well as forward. I am not sure what parts might be missing. I have attached pics.

What type of battery would have been in the welded on cradle? Lead acid?

Can anything be deduced from the controller?

Would it have had pedal assist or been throttle only?

Thanks so much!

Michael
 

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What are the dimensions of the battery rack (width, depth, and vertical clearance)? I imagine it was sized for lead acid bricks, which come in a limited range of dimensions. If you can determine whether it held two, three, or four bricks, you will know its intended operating voltage.

Worksman is still in business, and they can probably give you some guidance.
 
There is a small chance that the controller still has a readable label on the side that is against the mounting surface. If so, it could have the voltage it is intended for within the information on it.

Otherwise, the dimensions of that mounting cradle may help.

My guess is it is 36v or 48v, as those are the common voltages of the older E-bikekit "kits" I've seen.
It doesn't look big (tall and deep) enough for 22Ah sized SLA, but it is probably about right for 3 12Ah SLA bricks, and the wiring above them, to sit comfortably in the tray, with their long dimension parallel to the trike itself, connectors on top.

It might be 24v using two "wheelchair" group35 batteries side by side, but I think that like the 22Ah they'd be too tall/deep to fit, and I don't think E-bikekit has used 24v controllers.

Is there another connector cable that would go from the controller's 2-pin cable (sticking out in the pic of the cradle) to the battery itself that's not shown in the pics here? If so, the terminals on the other end of that cable may say more about the type of battery that was used (though you can easily change to a different kind, if you don't mind mounting it elsewhere on the trike or building a custom battery (such as from Leaf or other large-EV cells that are essentially book or brick-shaped) that will fit within the available cradle space).


Regarding throttle or PAS: I don't see any pics of the BB / pedal area, where a PAS sensor would usually be mounted. If there is no wire from the controller to a device near the pedals, or near any of the moving chainrings or axle(s) of the trike that would be driven by the pedals (but not driven by just rolling the wheels), then there is almost certainly no PAS on the trike.

It's likley that it is throttle only, with the special throttle you see there, along with the special controller that can interpret that throttle's signal to do the FWD and REV functions.


Some notes on that, in case you need to know how it works later on: The throttle probably has a return point somewhere in the middle-ish of it's rotation range, and you twist it "down" for reverse, and "up" for forward, and how far you twist it gives you more or less speed in that direction. It's likely that it starts at a voltage somewhere between 1V and 4V (typical throttle output range) for "zero" throttle output, and goes more toward the 1v for REV and more towards the 4V for FWD.

Hardly any controllers will recognize that and operate this way, so this controller is one of the few designed to do this. Most controllers only recognize a throttle that goes from off to full in one direction, and if they have a reverse function it's just a switch that changes the direction the motor spins, then the throttle is still used the same way as forward, just drives the motor the other way. So if you ever replace this controller, you may have to replace the throttle as well, as a typical controller would see this throttle as "stuck on" about halfway, and either error out (for the better-designed ones) or just immediately go forward at "half throttle" as soon as it's turned on.

If it's useful, this is a link to the current E-bikekit trike kit:
https://www.ebikekit.com/collections/tricycle-kits/products/e-trikekit-no-battery
it isn't the same as what you have there, since you have no LCD display, but it still uses the same throttle control. (different controller, plus the display, probably the same motor).

They dont' have an externally-linked page on their site that accesses anything other than current-model manuals or specs
https://www.ebikekit.com/pages/e-bikekit-owners-manuals
but they may have these available if you contact them.
 
Wow , thanks for the thorough replies!

There are no wires or sensors at the cranks. Wires go only to the motor, controller, display, throttle and brake lever.

Also, they are 1 piece Ashtabula cranks. Not sure if sensor can even be installed on this large bottom bracket shell. If it can, than I might explore this. Of course I'd probably have to replace everything but the motor. Might lose the reverse as well, going by what you're saying.

Inside dimensions of battery tray are 11 7/8" wide x 6 3/8" deep. There is about 5 1/2" clearance to install batteries from the front. Less vertical clearance on all other sides. Does this telll a tale of a specific battery/batteries form factor?

Does this power connector have a name?

Cheapest thing is probably to source a battery and see what's going to work.

Thanks much
 

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Worksman_trike said:
Also, they are 1 piece Ashtabula cranks. Not sure if sensor can even be installed on this large bottom bracket shell.
There are a number of ways to install a simple pulse-output PAS sensor (often called cadence sensor, although few systems actually monitor cadence itself, most just detect if you are pedaling or not and engage motor at full power or speed of the chosen assist level)

Some have split magnet rings you can fit over the crankshaft, and you could DIY a mounting bracket for the sensor to put it in the right place to sense the magnets. Or put the magnets on the chainring itself and DIY the sensor bracket to read those.

If you want to install a BB-cartridge type PAS, you can get Ashtabula / OPC adapters to threaded "standard" BB-shell type components; the page below shows various instructions and info about those:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ashtabula+%2F+OPC+adapters


If it can, than I might explore this. Of course I'd probably have to replace everything but the motor. Might lose the reverse as well, going by what you're saying.

You wouldn't necessarily lose the reverse, but it wouldn't work exactly the way it does now, for most controllers. It'd be lke I described before.

However, there is a way to add PAS of various kinds to it without changing (hardly) any part of the existing system, other than a bit of rewiring:

The Cycle Analyst v 3.x from Grin Tech (ebikes.ca) can be installed to take the PAS output (and throttle before it goes to the controller), and based on whatever modifiers you've setup for it, can create a throttle signal of the desired voltage range to drive the controller from PAS as if you were using the throttle. I don't think it would let the PAS emulate the reverse function, but you should still be able to use the throttle for that...but it might require a "bypass switch" to allow the original throttle signal to go to the controller instead of the CA's created throttle signal while using reverse. Might not be a big deal if you don't use reverse much, to flip a switch first; depends on usage scenario.

The CA also does actual pedal-controlled cadence-based assist, so you can actually control the speed of the motor (or it's power level, etc) by the speed of pedalling, unlike the vast majority of controllers. This is how I operate the SB Cruiser trike.

It will also read torque sensors to do the same job, if you need that.


Inside dimensions of battery tray are 11 7/8" wide x 6 3/8" deep. There is about 5 1/2" clearance to install batteries from the front. Less vertical clearance on all other sides. Does this telll a tale of a specific battery/batteries form factor?
there are a few pages with SLA battery sizes, such as a few of the hits here
https://www.google.com/search?q=size+of+sla+batteries
this is one of the more readable charts
https://www.batterysharks.com/12-Volt-SLA-Batteries-s/1213.htm
It looks like some of the 20-ish-Ah range sizes would fit a pair side by side in that space, but that's only 24V if they're seriesed. There may be other SLA combinations that would fit, too.

Did you find any label on the mounting side of the controller? (or on the endcap not visible in the pics).


Does this power connector have a name?
Probably a variation on the Higo/Julet; I don't know for sure. E-bikekit.com can probably tell you what it is and provide a matching connector, if they still use that one. If not, you can remove it and install a matching connector to whatever the battery you get already has.

Cheapest thing is probably to source a battery and see what's going to work.
Once you know what voltage the system is...otherwise you might not be able to use it with the existing controller and have to replace that, too...if the battery voltage is too high vs the original system design, then it may mean the motor at full throttle would be too fast (these types of trikes are often not stable above 10-15mph, sometimes less depending on design/geometry).
 
If you can't find any ohter info that tells us the voltage, it can be tested if you have access to either a variable power supply that will go from 24 thru at least 48v, at say 500mA or more, or at least three or four lead-acid batteries (including car starter batteries) that at least hold a charge even if they don't work very well.

Always start at lower voltage and go up, never start at higher and go down (it may damage parts).

PSU test:

You'd set the PSU to 20V (or 24V, etc) then connect it to the controller's battery input, + to + and - to -. Look at the LEDs on the Wuxing panel on the handlebars, and very slowly adjsut the voltage upward while checking those LEDs. At 20v it should still just red LED. If it turns yellow at 24v and green near 26-28v, it's a 24v system.

If it's at 24-28v and still red LED only, it is not a 24v system. Keep turning up the voltage, slowly, and note when it the yellow LED comes on. If it's about 36v, then that's the system voltage. If not until around 48v, it's 48v system.

For 36v, green would be around 42v. For 48v, green would be around 54v.


battery test: Make sure each battery is at least 12v, or fully charged at 13-14v.

Connect two 12v batteries in series, - of first one to controller -, + of first one to - of next battery, + of that one to + of controller. This makes 24v. Check LEDs, same comparison as for PSU test.

If it's not 24v, disconnect last battery + from controller and connect it to - of 3rd battery, then + of 3rd to controller +, this is 36v. Check LEDs, same comparison as pSU.

If not 36v, disconnect 3rd batt + from controller and connect to - of 4th batt, and + of 4th to controller +. This is 48v.
 
Worksman_trike said:
Inside dimensions of battery tray are 11 7/8" wide x 6 3/8" deep. There is about 5 1/2" clearance to install batteries from the front. Less vertical clearance on all other sides. Does this telll a tale of a specific battery/batteries form factor?

That tray would pretty neatly carry three 12V 12Ah lead acid bricks, which would make it a 36V system. That's a cheap and very common format for e-bike batteries, especially in the past. It's not a good battery, though. But it's cheap-- it might only cost about $100 to get brand new bricks for your trike.

Are there any markings at all on your controller?
 
The three 12 AH SLA batteries did get it back on the road with power.

The little display doesn't display anything at all, but the trike goes. It is throttle only. I did purchase an upgrade kit from ebikekits that will provide a new controller, pedal assist, and a better display, as well as future 48 volt capability if/when I want it. It can also run on 36V for the time being.

My reading tells me that I should really only expect about 6AH from the 3 SLA batteries. This doesn't allow for getting too far from home, especially since this will be even less as they age.

I'm thinking 10 mile round trip maximum using 170-200 watts. I don't expect to be able to ride over an hour. 48 volt 12AH or a bit more lithium ion (or lifpo4) should be a much better option. The lifpo4 option might be the way to go. I can cut up a bed frame and rework the size and shape of that battery cradle to accommodate larger size bricks.

Thanks for all the help people!
 
Worksman_trike said:
48 volt 12AH or a bit more lithium ion (or lifpo4) should be a much better option. The lifpo4 option might be the way to go.
Headway has some 12AH LiFePO4 cells but they are expensive. Nice thing about them is that one can "bolt" them together rather than having to mess with welding nickle tabs or strips.
 
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