New Bafang Crank-Drives

[cbzen]

Very cool indeed if they finally start offering up BB kits that will do 750 or more watts! I figure if it will do 750 continuous, then 1200-1500 peak should be possible and that is where it gets fun on a mid drive in my opinion!!

California Ebike is owned by a friend of mine and he offers a 750w kit. I've ridden a converted bike and it's just a much better solution for everyday riding. The weight is mounted low and at the center of the bike. The assist is smooth and closer to the pedal feel of a regular bike. Aesthetically it's just a much cleaner design and looks like a regular bike.

Based on the response he's getting, it looks like he'll focus on Mid Drive kits and drop the Hub Motor kits. Or offer one as an option for those that can't mount a motor under the bottom bracket.

http://california-ebike.com/product/8fun-mid-drive-electric-bicycle-kit/

 

[--freeride--]

I will use it for trailsriding and normal Jumps on a 140mm-160mm fully and don't expect any Problems... riding smooth!

Tell me how it goes. I was able to bend my GNG bottom bracket spindle so easily simply hitting a small dip on a trail. I was on a Kona Stinky with 170mm/7in of very plush travel. Though the build quality of the GNG BB is crap, it's still something I worry about regarding square tapered spindles. Riding is just no fun without jumping off anything that resembles a ramp, bombing down stairs, and dropping off ledges. :lol:

I don't have it yet. But up to 3 full suspension frames and a Nuvinci are sitting here waiting for testing

The GNG axle is very long and seems to be of poor quality...

If you aren't doing 10 feet flat drops all the time, you will never break a high quality square tapered bottom bracket on a full suspension... they are quiet strong and only break on trialbikes or dirtbike-hardtails that are abused to the max.

Lets see how the quality of the bafang axle is

 

[amigafan2003]

Is the lvc on the 48v unit around 44-45v then? Is it adjustable via the new software?

 

[Melbourne]

As requested Closeup/high res picture

The chainring is 46T with 5 bolts... Does anyone know of 52T replacement????...to see whether i can push way pass 50kph
https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=BCE4CA5913CE4E55&id=BCE4CA5913CE4E55%21885&v=3

https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=BCE4CA5913CE4E55&id=BCE4CA5913CE4E55%21883&v=3

the wooden icy pole is to stop motor from jamming the gear cable but i ordered new cable to fix this problem
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/clarks-universal-ss-inner-gear-cable-and-housing-kit/

https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=BCE4CA5913CE4E55&id=BCE4CA5913CE4E55%21884&v=3

https://skydrive.live.com/#cid=BCE4CA5913CE4E55&id=BCE4CA5913CE4E55%21886&v=3

if i am running at 50kph speed (assume max ~18amp?) is this going to kill my Bottle battle 36V9ah?

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Care to explain what you mean by that comment?

I've been on this forum for a while now. Look at the GNG threads. The amount of posts in those are insane. It looks like mid drives are becoming more popular to me, as they become more affordable, more reliable, and more powerful.

Yeah, we have some great DD hubs available to us now, but maybe it's just my perception - it just seems that people are talking about and building more mid drives than ever before.

+1.

I always thought the hub drive was a bit archaic and obsolete, I just didn't have the skills to build a mid drive. Hubs are unsophisticated, a great place for beginners and noobs and people with no facilities to start their quest into ebikes. But the mid drive is surely where it is at in terms of refinement, balance and efficiency through the gears. My only main beef is the lack of stealth.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Can we link two of these bad boys up together for some serious torque?

 

[crossbreak]

The chainring is 46T with 5 bolts... Does anyone know of 52T replacement????

I could make an adapter that takes normal 130mm BCD race bike chain wheels that are available in a range of 38T to 61T.

Could someone plz measure the BCD of the BBS chain wheel?


Made similar adapter for the Hammerschmidt crank gearbox, which goes into series production ATM, so i have some experience in making such adapters

 

[DaveTheWave]

Has anyone yet figured out the answer to a question someone else posted a few pages back: are the BBS-01's with different wattage ratings (250W, 350W, 500W, and 750W) all actually different motors or are some of them actually the same motors just driven at different voltages (24v, 36v, 48V etc.)?

Thanks!

 

[crossbreak]

read http://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=wider&t=50104&sf=msgonly

 

[DaveTheWave]

Thanks Crossbreak, for directing me to the relevant posts at http://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=wider&t=50104&sf=msgonly

The most recent posts in that set were hedged with "I believe" and "waiting for verification" so I wasn't sure if the information there is now considered to be accurate:

I believe the BBS-01 is the 36V / 350w unit, and the BBS-02 is the 48V / 750W unit. The 48V / BBS-02 motor is wound to a lower kV so it provides the same RPMs as the 36V unit (that way they both use the same mechanical parts), and the S02 stator is also wider to give it more copper mass and torque per watt.

One poster (dirkdigger) replied to say: that a reseller had confirmed that the above was the correct answer. However dirkdigger went on to say that "There are many listings for the 48v 750w unit under the BBS-01 name though. " so I'm confused. It's not clear whether some people are selling a BBS-01 as a 750W just by taking the same BBS-01 motor that runs at 350W at 36V and adding more voltage -- or if it is a typo, and they're actually selling a BBS-02 but listing it as BBS-01, or if the marketing moniker "BBS-01" actually applies to two different motors configurations.

and Spinningmagnets said:

The information in [the above] post is under dispute, we are now waiting for verification from members with "hands-on" access

So I'm wondering if anyone has had a chance to look at some actual units and sort out what's really going on with the different models and claimed power levels.

Thanks again.

 

[crossbreak]

you're welcome

guess there are just four units:

BBS-01, ranging from 250-350W, with PAS
BBT-01, ranging from 250-350W, with torque sensor, release date first quartal of 2014
BBS-02, ranging from 500-750W, with PAS
BBT-02, ranging from 500-750W, with torque sensor, release date ??

all 250 or 350W statements may refer to respective battery voltage / wind / controller settings. Maybe there is just one wind for each version, they just use different settings... just dont know, did not test any of these units either

 

[kocoman]

The limiter is software controlled in the LCD. It is not a hardware limiter. Lecrewse was able to obtain a limiter removed version from the supplier.

Second issue is the throttle maximum is also limited to each PAS setting. So let's say PAS mode 1, 2, and 3 have a top speed of 10, 15, and 20mph respectively. Then even if you use throttle, the maximum throttle speed can only go as fast as the PAS mode that you are in. Again, lecrewse sells a version where the throttle max is independent of the PAS setting. So anytime you use throttle, you will get full top speed.

The third issue is that these kits ONLY come with PAS engaged all the time. That means once you start pedaling, the motor (PAS) will kick in. However, this is an easy fix. You just open up the motor to disconnect the PAS sensor. Of course, you'd lose PAS. There is no way to disable the PAS in the LCD, unless of course, you get a kit that can be disabled.

I wonder about this statement. This is most definitely a US version as a 750w setup is illegal in Europe. AFAIK it is currently legal to 250w. Correct me if I am wrong. Your girlfriends bike is also 36v as it states in your sig and that may be why you have these issues. As this is 750w a PAS is not required and I would think that this would have to be altered. Also the stated high speed is 40-45 kmh(28mph). Not that the chinese would lie about this. Lecrewse's Ebay auction states: Top speed 25mph using throttle and 27mph+ using pedal assist function. I don't know why they would limit the speed on this other than to sell legal kits to Europe. Makes no sense to me. If Lecrewse got them to change things, I am sure anyone here could do the same. There are some real advantages to buying from someone that actually has the product on hand and is stateside though. Lecrewse also has twist throttles instead of those cheap thumb throttles - I hated mine that lasted only a week. I am not trying to cut into his sales -as you are taking the risk upon yourself to order anything from Aliexpress. That might not be worth the money saved. Just depends on how cheap/risky you are. I really just don't think he was able to get some different version that they wouldn't sell to anyone else.

I personally am holding off on buying a kit anytime soon since snow is right around the corner for me. I emailed them about the throttle limiter and will post if they get back to me. I want to put this on a big hit, so I am hoping the product is going to hold up to abuse.

By the way Rollodo - what is a green wave?

Where is Lecrewse's Ebay link? Thx

 

[dirkdiggler]

Ebay link $750 plus shipping:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/750w-Crank-...703?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c370bd56f

 

[kocoman]

Ok thanks

What about this below, what seller did he mail to?

I personally am holding off on buying a kit anytime soon since snow is right around the corner for me. I emailed them about the throttle limiter and will post if they get back to me. I want to put this on a big hit, so I am hoping the product is going to hold up to abuse.

 

[Melbourne]

The software limiter can be trick easily... I set my wheel size 14inch the speed is half so 10mph is actually 20mph.

My 36V350W was running at 50kph (30mph) sprint on cycling tracks.

I am getting a throttle soon and will let you guys know Max speed with Throttle.

 

[amigafan2003]

Hope you're setting those Strava rides to private Melbourne

 

[Melbourne]

Hope you're setting those Strava rides to private Melbourne

lol... public don't know how to set to private.
its in the cycling Velodrome... Strava Speed Record set at 80 kph, i am only doing 50 kph for a second.

 

[amigafan2003]

lol... public don't know how to set to private.

https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/20420227-Can-I-make-an-activity-private-

 

[bose]

Has anyone done any checks on the bottom bracket threads after riding with the bafang drive?

 

[Samd]

It might be worth trying a slightly larger wheel setting Melbourne and seeing if you get the same top speed. There'll be a point where that unit can't deliver the wattage necessary to top 50kph.

Awhile back you asked if you could damage your bottle battery. It depends on the source but most of them don't like to have more than 10 amps continuous and 15amps peak.

Could someone please post a pic of the throttle plug please? Cheers.

 

[mwkeefer]

bose,

I have not yet had a chance to check on the bottom bracket but presuming accurate specs of 117 RPM @ 48v and 80% efficiency the torque at the bottom bracket will be over 50 ft lbs (I`ve posted the calculations in the other 350/750w thread and don`t want to cross post). I am a bit concerned about rotation however if I have seen all the installation videos correctly and understand the 18mb technical reference pdf I located then you are supposed to insert the unit into the bottom bracket then rotate it towards the downtube... this makes sense since there is a small piece of vibration dampening rubber on the side of the crank drive which would be against the downtube. Further if oppositional torque were to occur, it should rotate the drive in the direction of the downtube, so all this does make sense.

That being said, I too have some concern over torque at the bottom bracket and have considered a bracing arm to connect to the retaining ring bolts and then some frame mounted tube clamp style fixation just to prevent torque twist or spin.

With regard to the threads on the actual bafang drive, they are fairly well cut and if you don`t cross thread them or over torque (I think the spec is 40 N.M.) either of them then it should be fine


Everyone,

You may be interested to check out this video... it`s in German but it`s a complete tear down of the entire Bafang BBS-01 350w version of the drive system.... quite revealing, I didn`t notice one thing I have seen on the 750w version... on the 750w BBS-02 there is an inline fuse internally on the green phase power line, unsure what amperage or voltage it is for as I haven`t dissassembled mine but I`ve been sent pictures by some of the retailers now importing the unit.

Hope this helps!
Regards,
Mike

[youtube]b68fOrwcOcc[/youtube]

For those of us (me included, I did a rough translation of the text in the video... there is no audio so I thought it may help put what your seeing into context):

Frame #1 Remove Kettenbatt and protection Remove the hex socket screws holding the dust cover, ensure no dirt gets into the socket holes. Remove the small hex bolts and then finally remove the dust cover.
Engine Auben rainigen then
Carefully klelnen
Hexagon socket screws
Dust cover loose. Making sure that no dirt in the
screw
sitting and the small
Imbusschlussel
correctly seated ... Remove then cover
Frame #2 Put pedal arm loose and loose axle nuts Remove pedal arms and loosen the axle retaining nut
Frame #3 When pulling out the axle, be careful if beidseitgen parts of ball bearings and shells with loose When pulling the axle take care not to damage the internal parts of the ball bearings and retainers, ensure they are not damaged.
Frame #4 possibly bearing beiseitig remove this would be a small maintenance Remove and lubricate or replace the ball bearings if needed.
Frame #5 whether it `s more here just for experts This part is for experts only. Accessing the controller internals - remove the back via 4 hex bolts.

Frame #6 disconnect it carefully connector Disconnect all connectors carefully
Frame #7 out without the rubber seals Carefully remove the RTV/Rubber seals from the back side of the motor.
Frame #8 Loose bolts of linen cover Loosten and remove bolts from the left side motor / controller cover.
Frame #9 Screw M4 screw axis in Screw M4 screw into center of exposed shaft and then lightly tap with a hammer, this will force the right side lid open and push the assembly partly out.
then stick with light hammer blow and screw on the lid while
Frame #10 Now the worm gear shaft is visible Quite accurate, first time for everything
Frame #11 Seal testing I presume, checking or removing the seal.
Frame #12 Clean everything, if necessary Very clear
Frame #13 the exposure of the gear is not necessary (heir intended only as a single block)
Frame #14 Axle grease and left screw the cover back, prepare drive axle Grease the axle and gears and replace the right size. Once installed screw the left side cover back in place to seal and mount the opposite side (approximately
Frame #15 Bearings and ball bearing grease, attention to proper assembly Fairly clear when watching the video
Frame #16 Grease the needle bearing inside
Frame #17 Tighten the axle nut and bold underline in the interstices Tighten the axle nut and apply ample grease
Frame #18 Screw the cover right, now it's done Screw the right cover on and in place, now your done.
Frame #19

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

I always thought the hub drive was a bit archaic and obsolete, I just didn't have the skills to build a mid drive. Hubs are unsophisticated, a great place for beginners and noobs and people with no facilities to start their quest into ebikes. But the mid drive is surely where it is at in terms of refinement, balance and efficiency through the gears. My only main beef is the lack of stealth.

only the last sentence is correct.
the rest you have backwards.
you mistake simplicity for unsophistication when simplicity is sophistication.

crank drives are a dead end, been thoroughly explored for over a century ever since the industrial revolution with its ice predecessors.
hub drive is the new kid on the block even though they've been around about as long.
they've been ignored for the most part so their evolution is only just begining.
but that's for another day so you gotta work with what you got available now.

 

[Rollodo]

crank drives are a dead end, been thoroughly explored for over a century ever since the industrial revolution with its ice predecessors.
hub drive is the new kid on the block even though they've been around about as long.
they've been ignored for the most part so their evolution is only just begining.
but that's for another day so you gotta work with what you got available now.

Actually, I think this whole thing is a bit backwards, sorry. Crank drives are indeed the new kid on the block.

 

[Samd]

New? Tonight I'll go home and repair my eleven year old Aprilia Enjoy crank drive gearbox. Nothing new about that. The limit ended up being about 100Nm for an engineering group that makes superbikes.

What makes sense about crank drives is using the machine's gearbox, just as for cars to get higher torque from a small motor.

EDIT: Just watched the movie. Even if we can get that little motor to take up more current and not saturate, I think the gears at 1:59 in the video aren't going to take a lot more torque I suspect. Looking forward to finding out though

Think I saw some push on bullet connectors in there - hmmm.

 

[mwkeefer]

New? Tonight I'll go home and repair my eleven year old Aprilia Enjoy crank drive gearbox. Nothing new about that. The limit ended up being about 100Nm for an engineering group that makes superbikes.

What makes sense about crank drives is using the machine's gearbox, just as for cars to get higher torque from a small motor.

EDIT: Just watched the movie. Even if we can get that little motor to take up more current and not saturate, I think the gears at 1:59 in the video aren't going to take a lot more torque I suspect. Looking forward to finding out though

Think I saw some push on bullet connectors in there - hmmm.

Yes the phase lines internally are linked to the inboard controller with generic quick disconnect plugs, on the 750w units there is an inline fuse too. The hall sensors are using a normal 4S (5 conductor) JST-HX balance connector just like a 4S battery would...

Connecting external power would not be difficult, you may be right about saturation but this video is the 350w model... there is atleast 3/4 - 1 lbs of additional copper in the 750 so saturation levels should be manageable I would assume... Im guesstimating that 30-35A will be the maximum safe power level and perhaps upping the voltage to 55.5v nominal at 15S, should raise maximum RPM at crank to approx 130 RPM at wide open throttle.

Regards,
Mike