New Bafang Crank-Drives

[leelorr]

Hello,

I am planning my first E-bike build and I am planning on using the Bafang BBS02 750w on a full suspension bike that I have not yet purchased. I have found what I think is a pretty good deal on a (2009?) Giant X0 trance and also on a 2008 Diamondback Sortie 2. I have read this entire thread, including the part about how there needs to be enough space for the suspension components on the right side of the BB for the Bafang gear reduction:
>Have a look if there is enough space around the bottom bracket on the right side. Around the milled down bottom bracket there >needs to 6cm(2.3 inch) space in a plane from the center. That's the space the secondary gear reduction of the Motor takes. If the >pivots of your frame are to wide. The motor won't fit.

The problem I have is that either bike would have to be shipped to me so I do not have the opportunity to look at this area of the bikes myself. The Diamondback is a few hundred dollars cheaper, but it seems like the Trance is a great bike so the price difference is not really as important as the possible fitment issue of the Bafang unit might be. I am amazed by the amount of expertise on this forum and hope someone might be able to offer advice. Can anyone here help me determine if either bike looks like a good candidate for the BBS02? I would really hate to purchase a bike only to find that the unit will not fit. I need an XL frame, which is making finding a suitable used bike a lot harder, especially locally. I have included a couple of links below to photos of the frames of the two bikes if that might help in telling if there might be an issue. I would appreciate any advice the members here might be able to give me. One of the reasons I would rather use the new Bafang kit is that I do want the ability to ride mild forest trails using the gears of the bike and a smaller, more "stealth" 48 volt battery back than I might need for an also large huge hub motor.

Giant X0 trance frame:
http://www2.giant-bicycles.com/_upload_us/bikes/models/xxl/2009/Trance-X-frame.jpg

Diamondback Sortie 2 frame:
http://www.bikemastertool.com/media/bikes/1111/xlarge/DBA_SortieBlack26_Frame_Black.jpg?1313527374
another view of the Sortie frame
http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb6189673/p4pb6189673.jpg
yet another view of the Sortie frame:
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz97/thejoetutt/DSC01256.jpg

Thank you in advance,
Lorrin (noob)

 

[spinningmagnets]

The Trance frame downtube has kind of an "S" bend just forward of the BB-mount. This will cause the BBS02 to be rotated downwards to fit. This will make the motor intrude into the ground clearance. This is not a "problem", just an issue you need to be aware of. The Diamond frame will be a better fit if ground clearance is of concern.

Here is a pic of a GNG-Gen2 to show what I mean:

 

[--freeride--]

The Trance frame has kind of an "S" bend just forward of the BB-mount. This will cause the BBS02 to be rotated downwards to fit. This will make the motor intrude into the ground clearance. This is not a "problem", just an issue you need to be aware of. The Diamond frame will be a better fit if ground clearance is of concern.

Right, better go for the Diamond Black frame as the ground clearence is better. And all the wires are on the downtube, that is perfekt for building a stealth Bike as you can tie the cabels to the braketubes easly!

 

[jerrypa]

Those who have C961 display (white frame), should know that the secret key combos for menu is press and hold plus and minus,
In menu you can set max speed, backlight brightness etc.
From menu you can open advanced menu by pressing and holding plus and minus and pressing power 8 times.
In advanced menu you can set wheel diameter, PAS power level and PAS cutoff time

I soldered the Battery conector to my drive and testet. Kai is right you can adjust the NUMBER of PAS power levels the wheel size and the minutes after what the display atomatically switches the system off...
But thats it. You can not adjust the settings of the PAS levels...

By pressing and holding plus and minus and pressing power 8 times in the advanced menu the Display clears all your settings and everything is like it came from the factroy.

Now I know the poor menu of the display, but that does not help me change those damn stock cadenze and Power settings..

I have C961 and i think that you can not adjust the power level. I think it will adjust only speed level?

Have anyone found a good english manual for C961? (One morning after rain my bike gives error code 4. After 40m ride its started work normally. Was the voltages to high....etc.)

 

[Kai]

Have anyone found a good english manual for C961? (One morning after rain my bike gives error code 4. After 40m ride its started work normally. Was the voltages to high....etc.)

Amy from General Electronics Battery sent me an english manual for Bafang C961 display. See attachment, or get it from my GoogleDrive https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9qEuEbl3yVYQ0kxbXRZRnN6N09MdG00ZHZUYU55R2dBcjlF/edit?usp=sharing

I'm pleasantly surprised how easy it was to do business with GEbattery through AliExpress. Amy even telephoned me just to make sure I had received the motor and when I asked for english translation I guess she did the translation herself quickly. Error codes are listed on last page.

 

[--freeride--]

The C961 Manual says:

error code 4 -> Throttle no homing

 

[Spacey]

No ideas on why my throttle does not work on my bafang? I was wondering if maybe it had been disabled for the european market and disabled in software.

 

[jerrypa]

Have anyone found a good english manual for C961? (One morning after rain my bike gives error code 4. After 40m ride its started work normally. Was the voltages to high....etc.)

Amy from General Electronics Battery sent me an english manual for Bafang C961 display. See attachment, or get it from my GoogleDrive https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9qEuEbl3yVYQ0kxbXRZRnN6N09MdG00ZHZUYU55R2dBcjlF/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks. This helps a lot.
In fact, I don't connect the brakes and throthle at all. Perhaps the uncoupled connection was only wet.

 

[Tiverion]

No ideas on why my throttle does not work on my bafang? I was wondering if maybe it had been disabled for the european market and disabled in software.

The possibilities are endless but I doubt it has been disabled entirely.

First to do is check the connections; make sure you haven't folded a pin over during assembly. Don't loose the water proofing silicone washers.

Next, disconnect the throttle and see if you get an error code. If you do, the system knows the throttle is there but it has no way of knowing you are operating it.

After that you will need someone who understands electronics and can check the throttle and everything else.

Good luck.

 

[Spacey]

Cheers for reply

I'm pretty good with electronics but was wondering if maybe it might have been disabled for the euro market. Have tried both throttle but not the other motor.

I might open her up and disable the PAS wire and see if that chages anything.

 

[footloose]

Current state of Raleigh 20 / Bafang BBS02 750W / Shimano 8 IGH / 50V build.

It is a screamer. Tops out >30mph (a bit too fast for this bike really). Have to be careful re torque: on hills, it can easily pop wheelies using either PAS or throttle input. Bike just "rode out from underneath me" once last weekend. Fortunately I rolled off power quickly as front wheel lifted, system power reduced immediately, and my hands stayed on the bars.

I know it may sound like heresy, but I'm exploring ways to reduce power for this particular bike. Would like to see how it performs with 36V battery and lower amps.

Also plan to move battery weight forward, possibly onto a front rack. The front end is just too light in current setup.

 

[Spacey]

OK, so I tested both throttles on both of the motors I bought.... nothing.

Stripping the wires on the throttle I tested the Positive and Negative for power whilst hooked up to the controller...a healthy 5v supply.

I then checked that the throttles themselves work whilst plugged into the controller, yep 1.5v to 4.3v.

Unplugging the throttles and powering up gave no error message on the display, the only way to get a throttle error message was to connect the signal wire (Blue) to ground (Black) then error 7 came up on the display. Connecting the wires properly again made the error go away.

Soooooo..... The throttles themselves work, the controller knows they are there.... but on both motors I get nothing from the throttles. Have tried peddling first then applying throttle...nothing.

Supply disagrees that they might have disabled the throttle for the European market but it's starting to look like they are not broken just not doing anything with the throttle information?

 

[footloose]

"... exploring ways to reduce power..."

I take it back! Out for a ride on flatlands by the bay.
It is glorious!
Just need to be careful on the hills,
and do need to move c.o.g. forward a bit
by mounting battery forward or going to
lighter 50V battery.

 

[spinningmagnets]

There are freestanding 3-way power switches that can be added to limit the power temporarily. That way you (or a friend who is "borrowing" your bike, or a test ride) won't accidentally flip onto your back on a steep uphill.

Normally I would recommend a bike with a longer wheelbase if you like lots of power, but I understand that folders are very valuable when you commute on a train or have to park it inside your office...

 

[Warren]

footloose,

Looks like that battery pack should fit on top of the "top tube/downtube/only tube".

 

[footloose]

There are freestanding 3-way power switches that can be added to limit the power temporarily. That way you (or a friend who is "borrowing" your bike, or a test ride) won't accidentally flip onto your back on a steep uphill.

Normally I would recommend a bike with a longer wheelbase if you like lots of power, but I understand that folders are very valuable when you commute on a train or have to park it inside your office...

Spinningmagnets --

Can you point me towards a 'freestanding' 3-way switch?

I have a 3-way on separate Mac setup, and love it.

This Bafang is kind of engineered as a closed system. Might be challenge to incorporate a 3-way switch. The've engineered in favor of easy connections, versus flexible connections.

The system itself does kind of incorporate a software power level switch. When using pedal inputs, you can select from 5 power levels. Works pretty well.
However, when using throttle... it isn't in the loop... no ability to moderate via power level switching. Good and bad I guess.

I love this little folder, it is a long-term favorite bike, but this system does push its envelope.
Think system would be *terrific* for a long wheelbase bike.
A guy near me is doing a Yuba Mundo build. It could be a winner. Hoping to take it for a test ride sometime soon.

 

[footloose]

footloose,

Looks like that battery pack should fit on top of the "top tube/downtube/only tube".

It just misses fitting on top of the "only tube", dang it!

 

[spinningmagnets]

Can you point me towards a 'freestanding' 3-way switch?

________________________________________________
You can buy a Lyen controller and specify it needs a 3-way
________________________________________________
You can buy new CycleAnalyst (highly recommended), and add the $22 3-way "CA3_switch"
http://www.ebike.ca/store/store_CA.php
________________________________________________
You can buy a throttle with built-in 3-way (I will search)
$8 here: http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=41
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54620&p=814028#p814329

 

[coachstevo]

There are freestanding 3-way power switches that can be added to limit the power temporarily. That way you (or a friend who is "borrowing" your bike, or a test ride) won't accidentally flip onto your back on a steep uphill.

Normally I would recommend a bike with a longer wheelbase if you like lots of power, but I understand that folders are very valuable when you commute on a train or have to park it inside your office...

Spinningmagnets --

Can you point me towards a 'freestanding' 3-way switch?

I have a 3-way on separate Mac setup, and love it.

This Bafang is kind of engineered as a closed system. Might be challenge to incorporate a 3-way switch. The've engineered in favor of easy connections, versus flexible connections.

The system itself does kind of incorporate a software power level switch. When using pedal inputs, you can select from 5 power levels. Works pretty well.
However, when using throttle... it isn't in the loop... no ability to moderate via power level switching. Good and bad I guess.

I love this little folder, it is a long-term favorite bike, but this system does push its envelope.
Think system would be *terrific* for a long wheelbase bike.
A guy near me is doing a Yuba Mundo build. It could be a winner. Hoping to take it for a test ride sometime soon.

Got the kit yesterday, and have it mounted, black motor looks beautiful on the black Mundo. needed some new cables and such, but if you want to take a drive up north a bit on Sunday it should be ready for its maiden flight.

 

[Avigo]

My Bafang MD 750 watts came from Ali Express(GE Battery) It was delivered within 25 days, arrived in excellent condition.
I have opted for the cable disk brakes so I can use the supplied brake levers with brake switch. Installation only took couple of
hours after the removal of the BB. Quality of the kit is very good as compared with the Bafang Hub system. Its all plug and ride.
My system came with the speed limiter remove, as instructed. Lipo stored in the TopPeak seat post bag.

 

[Avigo]

The ground clearance is sooo much better than the GNG.
It is very compact, great for MTB trail.

 

[Avigo]

Chain line is way off with my gear cluster, I cannot use gear1 34T, it will pop the chain off the crank. My
lowest is 26T and highest is 11T. These are the 2 main test gears for my ride. I will change to a better setup
with spacer arrangement. My current cluster is 8 gears. 2-8 gear works fine with the crank (48T).

 

[Avigo]

DATA COMPARING MD VS HUB 13T SYSTEM ..see graphs

This MD vs Hub test is fully identical in riding habit ,location distance and duration.
Here are the comparision data....full throttle, no pedalling on both system and using the same pack(fully charged)
.................... MD...... HUB

Amps used 1574 1156
Watts used 73 54
Watts/km 22.1 16.4
Max amps 28.1 30.3
Watts max 1293 1383
Max speed 42 37( MD 11T)
Climb speed 22 27
Km ride 3.3 3.3
low volt/load 43.2 44.7 (note factory default LVC 42V)

This is a high load test as shown in the watts/km.
If the PAS is on setting 3, the watts/km will be high.
Only advantage,minimum..is in a really steep climb
>40 deg but the is no guarantee it will need no assist.

The advantage of hub is there is no surge current.
With the MD I have to throttle down when l reach the
base of hill from a fast run to change to low gear
and throttle up again. The hub system with the run inertia
I do not have to cut power and throttle full again
incurring surge current..

 

[Kai]

Chain line is way off with my gear cluster, I cannot use gear1 34T, it will pop the chain off the crank.

A chain guide is a must with derailleur. If the most of your riding uses the smallest chain qogs then your chain line is OK most of the time.
With Internally geared hub the chain line is perfect or near perfect (like with NuVinci)

 

[Avigo]

Chain line is way off with my gear cluster, I cannot use gear1 34T, it will pop the chain off the crank.

A chain guide is a must with derailleur. If the most of your riding uses the smallest chain qogs then your chain line is OK most of the time.
With Internally geared hub the chain line is perfect or near perfect (like with NuVinci)

Are u refering to the front derailleur, it will still rub creating heat.
I will make a tubular roller guide to stop the chain from going
off the crank.