New Bafang Crank-Drives

[Oxnardken]

I am not sure. I am going to send it to lcrewze? Since he seems to be the expert. It's too expensive for me to mess with

 

[acn49]

ANDYS Bafang 750w mid drive conversion
Always wanted to build up a mid drive so when i saw these little units i decided to give it a try , i had a Felt hard tail MTB sitting around just crying out for a middy so why not , was very impressed with all the info on these systems and i was looking forward to an easier fast build , it sure didn't disappoint . I had used the Felt MTB for both light bike path use and also some hilly single track and found it to be a beaut bike , easy to pedal and good handling , so my hope was that with a fairly light conversion it would keep some of these attributes .

The conversion was very easy with the motor assemmbly fitting very snuggly and locked in tight , the wiring all just plugs in with only the lipo harness req soldering , i decided to use the topeak saddle bag for the two 6s 48v 5000 mah lipos , i do intend carry another two in my back pack if req . the bike has ended up fairly light compared with my other hubby drives and although i haven't had a chance to really test it out it still feels great to ride as before .


This would have to be one of the easiest conversions around and with a final build thats light and quite powerfull and the best part is the bike still feels nimble and so easy to pedal , Great !!!
andy

 

[Kepler]

Bike looks great Andy. Really stealth with the motor tucked right up like that. You got a black C961 display. Nice. suits the bike perfectly. I just came back from a hard spin around the Dell. Loving this drive.

 

[deffx]

thanks guys

Im really digging the sounds of this this motor, especially the 12s optimal configuration? so easy to charge, i think it will be perfect for my next build, how are your gear changes, is it worth waiting out for the torque version,also just a bit sketched out on were to get it and what you get.I'll try to order of your supplier kepler
Any advise

 

[kudos]

Andy,

Where did you source your kit from? The black C961 display looks much better than the white.

Kudos

 

[crossbreak]

BTW: Once I'm done testing this unlimited (no speed limit, throttle not linked directly to pedalec, works independent) on a bike or two I will be receiving my own sample units, 2 of each including the tool and programming adapter and software so I can configure these with physical speed limits, etc

I'm waiting keen an more info about the programming adapter. Seems like it has to be kind of special since common USB->Serial Adapter like the FTDI won't be recognized by the software. It would be nice to see which chip is on these Bafang programmers. Do you have an Idea where I could get one?


Common TTL Adapters can't be selected in the drop down menu:

 

[crossbreak]

problem solved... it just doesn't work with win7 x64. Tried WinXP x86 and all works fine

@mwkeefer thanks for your support!

 

[Kepler]

Ok, need to get some notes down after this evenings first serious shake down of the drive.

Fitted up a CA with remote shunt and calibrated the shunt with a Fluke amp meter to make sure all was accurate.

Max amps recorded 26A. (12S LiPo)
Max Watts seen 1150W
PAS is nice and responsive. Startup and shutdown are spot on IMO.
Set up mine with 9 speed/power settings. Sounds like overkill but it gives you plenty of resolution on the PAS (and on the throttle max)
Each PAS setting has both a max Watt and coresponding max speed
Setting 1 on PAS is around 150W on the 13 tooth and max's out at around 15 kph
Setting 5 on PAS is around 250W and around 30kph on the 13 tooth gear with light pedaling. Assist stops adding after this.
Setting 9 on PAS is around 450W and around 35kph on the 13 tooth gear with light pedaling.
Hard pedaling on setting 9 got me to around 40kph. Assist continued to 40kph and I think it would have continued to assist to whatever I could pedal to.

Touching the throttle instantly kills the PAS however the throttle is not a true throttle but rather a 3 position switch. Off / approx 250W / approx 1150W. Needless to say, it kicks the power in especially on setting 9.
The 9 power settings translate to the throttle also.

Preliminary impressions.
Bike has plenty of power but it not fast on PAS only. It is however quite quick if you use the throttle. Even with a 13 tooth, 45kph is not a problem. and 11 tooth would no doubt get you 50kph

Economy is great when using PAS. If you are happy with 35kph, range will be very acceptable.

Out on the tracks, the drive is a hoot and gives you a great workout. Setting 9 gives you enough climbing power and speed with the throttle then acting as boost when you need it.

Even on the 750W BBS02, the PAS will only give you 450W max. This means that as a commuter, 35kph is going to be the max comfortable speed no matter what gearing you have. You can go faster with the throttle but as the throttle acts like a boost switch, economy will go out the door.

I pushed the drive hard on this test and the ambient was 35 degC. When I got the bike home, I was still able to hold my hand on the motor casing for as long as I liked.

I am enjoying this drive a lot

 

[acn49]

Thanks Kudos , well Kepler , Avigo and i ordered our kits from a ALI Express , we all have recieved slightly different displays , i was just lucky to get the black C961 , it sure is going to be interesting to find out how these go , our bafang hub drives are really good just hope these turn out ok .
andy

 

[madin88]

@ Kepler

thx for your experience report.
Is there a way to set up the unit to give full power out of the controller also with PAS assistent and not only throttle?
It would be nice to pedal around 50kph or more

Anyone know if we could use the internal PAS sensor with CA and an external better controller for more power?
This would also keep heat out of the motor.

 

[Kepler]

thanks guys

Im really digging the sounds of this this motor, especially the 12s optimal configuration? so easy to charge, i think it will be perfect for my next build, how are your gear changes, is it worth waiting out for the torque version,also just a bit sketched out on were to get it and what you get.I'll try to order of your supplier kepler
Any advise

So far, gear changes have been fine. Changing down (to larger gear) seems fine under power. change ups need the throttle to be backed off though. I just touch the ebrake to cut the motor then change up. On the lower power settings, changing up or down feels fine. As the max power on PAS is only 450W, this is obviously helping out the gear changes.

In relation to purchase for us down under, This is where I got mine from. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...eletric-bicycles-trike/326611_1259610070.html. Andy and Avig got theirs at the same time.

Just make a note on the order that you want the speed limiter removed and if you plan to run LiPo, I would suggest you ask to have the LVC set to 40V. The Sales Rep, Amy, is quite good to deal with and will correspond with you.

 

[Kepler]

@ Kepler

thx for your experience report.
Is there a way to set up the unit to give full power out of the controller also with PAS assistent and not only throttle?
It would be nice to pedal around 50kph or more

Unfortunately not without having access to the software. you will get 35kph to 40kph on PAS with an 11 tooth on flat road. 450W is all you get when on PAS. I am sure they have set it up this way so you don't destroy your gear system.

 

[madin88]

Unfortunately not without having access to the software. you will get 35kph to 40kph on PAS with an 11 tooth on flat road. 450W is all you get when on PAS. I am sure they have set it up this way so you don't destroy your gear system.

ok that will be the cause. it will last longer and also doesn't get to hot with the built in controller. with that setting they are on the safe side. ok.
It would be really nice if we could use the built in PAS sensor with CA and external controller (im thinking of a Kelly min KBS with torque mode feature)

 

[Tom L]

...however the throttle is not a true throttle but rather a 3 position switch. Off / approx 250W / approx 1150W. Needless to say, it kicks the power in especially on setting 9.
The 9 power settings translate to the throttle also.

Just to clarify, is the three position effect due to the controller or thumb throttle? I purchased a 1/2 twist throttle with my kit from lcrewse and am wondering if I can expect the same response.

 

[Rollodo]

Sounds good. There not too bad to buy from but they are a bit slow. Took 6 Weeks to finally get mine. Price was right though @$550 AUD landed.

Including customs?

 

[Kepler]

Yes, custom programming was provided free of charge.

 

[Rollodo]

Yes, custom programming was provided free of charge.

I meant like US customs, once an item over $200 reaches the US border, the recipient is supposed to pay a customs fee. Is there anything like that in Australia?

 

[Kepler]

...however the throttle is not a true throttle but rather a 3 position switch. Off / approx 250W / approx 1150W. Needless to say, it kicks the power in especially on setting 9.
The 9 power settings translate to the throttle also.

Just to clarify, is the three position effect due to the controller or thumb throttle? I purchased a 1/2 twist throttle with my kit from lcrewse and am wondering if I can expect the same response.

The thumb throttle looks to be a standard hall effect proportional throttle. Its a bit hard to test on its own though because of proprietary plug the Bafang uses. It does have 3 pins though. I suspect the 3 position effect is programmed within the controller. Perhaps this can be programmed out but I am not sure. Since you are purchasing from Icrewse and he has the software, perhaps he can give us a little more information on this. I would love to see some screen shots of the other 2 page tabs on the software GUI.

 

[Kepler]

Yes, custom programming was provided free of charge.

I meant like US customs, once an item over $200 reaches the US border, the recipient is supposed to pay a customs fee. Is there anything like that in Australia?

Sorry . Australia does have custom fees to pay on the declared price depending on what the item is classed as. i.e. gift, sample, etc. I didn't get an option to specify anything specific on this purchase. Not sure what the supplier placed on the customs declaration but it did get through without any extra charges.

 

[Rollodo]

Sorry . Australia does have custom fees to pay on the declared price depending on what the item is classed as. i.e. gift, sample, etc. I didn't get an option to specify anything specific on this purchase. Not sure what the supplier placed on the customs declaration but it did get through without any extra charges.

Ok, thanks - good to know. Is there a specific reason you purchased it from this company as opposed to mkeefer or lcrewse? (I'm not sure if they still have it ) Btw, I never congratulated you on the purchase or the setup - it looks very neat installed!

EDIT: I guess aside from the price

 

[Kepler]

Price was the main driver. Also location. Postage from China is typically cheaper than from the US. If I was in the US, I would seriously consider purchasing from within the US mainly for the reduced risk and to support the local market. For us down under though, it makes little difference to the risk either way so price again was the key.

And thankyou for compliment on the bike. You tend to feel like a bit of fraud when fitting this kit though as it doesn't take much skill to complete a neat install. :lol:

Personally, I think l enjoy the evaluation process more than the actual install.

 

[jk1]

Kepler: you will get 35kph to 40kph on PAS with an 11 tooth on flat road. 450W is all you get when on PAS.

So the max continous power with PAS is only 450w, and the maximum power continous with the throttle is 750w ? Thats bad as this is suppoed to be the POWERFUL version. It could explain why people have said this feels underpowered compared to other kits like the GNG and cyclone, imagineing what the BBS01 350w version would be even worse on the PAS maybe 200w continous on PAS?

A normal rider for long distance can peddle about 250w of power output. So for peddling with PAS =450w total ~ 700W

Which is the same or LESS then throttle only of 750w. So either way the max u get is around 700w.

That would mean that this kit even thought its rated 750w in reality the continous maximum power with peddling is comparable to the power of the lower power 500w cyclone kits when peddling, Which is 500w plus 250w peddleing watts = 750w .

 

[footloose]

Nice thing is you can use it in two complementary modes: pedelec + throttle.
Each mode seems to have ample power for it's purpose.

I'm running BBS02 on 50V, speed limit removed in software, through a Shimano 8 speed IGH with 13 tooth sprocket, and a 20" wheel.

In pedelec mode, up to about 30 kph, plenty of boost from motor yet I can still contribute power through the pedals.

Around 30 kph, it exceeds my cadence and I move to throttle.

From there, it zips up to a top speed of >50 kph, which feels way fast on a 20" folder.
I was surprised to see >50 kph on 20" wheel.

 

[coachstevo]

Kepler: you will get 35kph to 40kph on PAS with an 11 tooth on flat road. 450W is all you get when on PAS.

A normal rider for long distance can peddle about 250w of power output..

Are you talking unassisted? Or with some electric assist?

A top tour domestique puts out that kind of wattage...

 

[Kepler]

So the max continous power with PAS is only 450w, and the maximum power continous with the throttle is 750w ? Thats bad as this is suppoed to be the POWERFUL version. It could explain why people have said this feels underpowered compared to other kits like the GNG and cyclone, imagineing what the BBS01 350w version would be even worse on the PAS maybe 200w continous on PAS?

On throttle, I was seeing 1150W.