New controller lacks power

[tombenn444]

Hey everyone I would appreciate some help I'm kinda new to ebikes here's my situation.

1500w 48v rear hub Amazon motor

I bought a 3000w 48-72v nonhub Amazon motor with matching controller

New motor came with annoyingly short chain. Too short . Waiting on more chain.

In the meantime hooked up new controller to old motor, same battery.

Motor lacks torque, alot. Making horrible noise in controller. Sounds like driving wood screws into some hippie's big toe. The top speed might be improved, not sure can't get the torque to reach the rpms. Controller getting warm quick, motor getting hot quick. Should also note I also am using the twist throttle that came with the new kit, instead of my old thumb throttle.

1500w motor is practically stock, only mod is I've replaced the wiring in the motor leads with a size bigger.

Had hooked everything up correctly last night, I hit the throttle and it goes reverse. I swap a couple phase and hall sensor wires goes forward now, albeit at a painfully low amount of torque.
Here is a picture of what I got. Also is a picture of my gf bike same exact bike bought about same time

 

[lnanek]

Sounds like you don't have the phase wires correct:

 

[tombenn444]

Ok trying those now. I should mention that the rpms are just as I would expect with a bigger controller but no torque to it

 

[tombenn444]

Okay I got the wiring correct it only took me 35 tries but I got it. Smooth rotation, no noise and good torque. Only it's still not getting the rpms I know it should be. Results with + & - reverse allowed me to reach rpm at least double what I'm getting now. I've tried the three speed, the speed limiter, the hard start wires, and even another type of throttle.

 

[E-HP]

Okay I got the wiring correct it only took me 35 tries but I got it. Smooth rotation, no noise and good torque. Only it's still not getting the rpms I know it should be. Results with + & - reverse allowed me to reach rpm at least double what I'm getting now. I've tried the three speed, the speed limiter, the hard start wires, and even another type of throttle.

Why are you expecting a higher rpm? Did you increase the voltage?

 

[lnanek]

If you know the Kv rating of the motor, you can get the expected RPM by multiplying by voltage.

 

[tombenn444]

While I was the working on getting the wiring correct I found some negative reverse combinations that spun at rpms that are at least double what it spins at currently. I even found a good positive reverse. Had the high rpms and it even had the torque to to deliver. It's just the only positive forward combination I have found has the torque but lacks rpms

 

[docw009]

With the good reverse spin that you had, what happens if you follow the flow chart to reverse the spin? Maybe it will retain the rpm.

I use geared motors so reverse spins the motor internally, but being curious I have followed the chart on a working motor to spin it backwards, and it did reverse.

 

[tombenn444]

I just tried that, and all three combination gave me a locked wheel except for one that gave me a negative forward result. Like the others, great rotation but little to no torque. I don't think it's the hall sensor. The throttle that came with the controller was the potentiometer type I believe. It also has a toggle switch for forward and reverse. I never hooked up the plug for reverse because I wasn't sure which plug it was meant to plug into. Maybe if I hook just the toggle switch up and flip the switch to reverse? And wire it according to the positive reverse?

 

[tombenn444]

No luck tried wiring it to a positive reverse and selecting the reverse on the throttle switch same result. Great rpms and torque going backward but forward goes much slower

 

[tombenn444]

It would be easier if I could figure out how to upload videos. I mean it's crazy how fast this back wheel spins when it's not hooked up right I honestly don't even know how fast it will spin I get scared and back off the throttle before it gets to its Max RPMs. And I regularly ride this bike constant 32mph

 

[TommyCat]

Hi tombenn444,

This just doesn't sound right...

I just tried that, and all three combination gave me a locked wheel except for one that gave me a negative forward result.

There shouldn't be any trying of combinations.

It's a straightforward...

"Exchange the YELLOW and BLUE hall sensor wires of the controller."
And
"Exchange the YELLOW and GREEN phase wires of the controller."

Both completed at the same time.


Sometimes controller manufactures will purposely reduce the available RPM for switched reverse operation...
I know for sure that my Magic Pie V5 controller does for one.


Regards,
T.C.

 

[neptronix]

Is the controller programmable? amazon controllers from fly by night companies usually aren't.
There may be a specific setting you can't change on that controller because it was fixed to work with a specific motor and nothing else. For example, a setting like hall angle will vary across motors, but for some controllers, they are fixed.

If you fail to find a working combination then you don't have much options. I imagine no support from the seller is available.

I'd very strongly recommend buying a decent quality programmable controller that includes instructions and software. Most of them are flexible enough to work on anything from a RC motor ( very fast and hard to drive ) to a direct drive bike motor ( very slow, easy to drive ).

 

[tombenn444]

Hi tombenn444,

This just doesn't sound right...

There shouldn't be any trying of combinations.

It's a straightforward...

"Exchange the YELLOW and BLUE hall sensor wires of the controller."
And
"Exchange the YELLOW and GREEN phase wires of the controller."

Both completed at the same time.


Sometimes controller manufactures will purposely reduce the available RPM for switched reverse operation...
I know for sure that my Magic Pie V5 controller does for one.


Regards,
T.C.

My wires are not color coded, and this controller usually does slow down when the 'reverse' setting is selected

 

[tombenn444]

Is the controller programmable? amazon controllers from fly by night companies usually aren't.
There may be a specific setting you can't change on that controller because it was fixed to work with a specific motor and nothing else. For example, a setting like hall angle will vary across motors, but for some controllers, they are fixed.

If you fail to find a working combination then you don't have much options. I imagine no support from the seller is available.

I'd very strongly recommend buying a decent quality programmable controller that includes instructions and software. Most of them are flexible enough to work on anything from a RC motor ( very fast and hard to drive ) to a direct drive bike motor ( very slow, easy to drive ).

I didn't consider the hall sensor arrangement. Chances are that is the issue then, tho I cannot understand why

 

[neptronix]

Ya probably never will, these randomly named amazon sellers never provide support, nor produce enough units for people to spend time reverse engineering how to support them..

A majority of questions like these end up with no working configuration, but more often than not, the problem is that there's no labeling as to what the wires connect to. If you got through that, then there's more layers of undocumented issues to make it through!

 

[tombenn444]

Hi tombenn444,

This just doesn't sound right...

There shouldn't be any trying of combinations.

It's a straightforward...

"Exchange the YELLOW and BLUE hall sensor wires of the controller."
And
"Exchange the YELLOW and GREEN phase wires of the controller."

Both completed at the same time.


Sometimes controller manufactures will purposely reduce the available RPM for switched reverse operation...
I know for sure that my Magic Pie V5 controller does for one.


Regards,
T.C

Does it matter which hall sensor is in the middle?
I did just as u said and it still rotates same direction just a little bit rougher of a rotation

 

[TommyCat]

My wires are not color coded

Your first move would be to properly label each of your phase and hall wires. Both coming from the motor, and from the controller.
Colored electrical tape would be the best but use whatever you have. To distinguish and keep track of your same-colored wires whilst trying different combinations and swaps.

Does it matter which hall sensor is in the middle?

As far as phase to hall sensor configuration I think not.

I did just as u said and it still rotates same direction just a little bit rougher of a rotation

If this is using that high RPM configuration, it's my understanding that it may be a false positive. Or another issue.
See this thread...
Weird issue with motor going too fast FIXED!!!

So don't be too disappointed not being able to use a too good to be true higher RPM.

Look for good amp draw, quietness, operation, and in the typical RPM range that you would expect.


To take a deeper dive into how the sensors and phases relate to each other and configured, as well as testing.
See this thread...
Testing BLDC motor's Phase Wiring - Hall Sensors and Wiring. - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

Hang in there!