New controller needed

D

Drizzt321

100 mW
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
39
So, a few weeks ago I got an AmpedBikes stealth front wheel kit. Working fine, but I then got a Watt meter to measure my actual power usage so I could end up doing some estimates for how I was using the bike for pedal assist. Put the Anderson power poles on the meter, then went to hook it up. I wasn't paying close enough attention, plugged in the controller, had a *POP* and then smoke. Oh crap. I accidentally hooked up the wrong polarity to the controller. The only positive of this all is my controller was NOT hooked up to anything else. So, blown controller. Went back to Amped, ordered a new one. Got a refund notice today, and when I went to their website, nothing. It's at a "the website is temporarily unavailable". Uh oh. I emailed them at the support email I had...but I'm not going to hold my breath.

All that said, I need a new controller. I found em3ev.com, and in their controller section (http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=38) it looks like the Sensorless 6FET controller is probably what I want (36v pack). I think it's the one I want anyway. How would I go about verifying that? Or might I possibly be able to repair the one I blew? Is it worth the risk? I figure that if it popped, even if I replace anything obviously blown, I probably can't trust it without doing a full proper test, which I don't have the knowledge or tools to do.
 
At 36v you could use a sensored or sensorless controller, at higher voltages sensored is the best bet. I run a 12 fet sensorless controller on a 9c 2806 36V@50A and works flawless.
 
Thanks, that helps reinforce my thought that the 6 or 12 FET would work fine for me. Maybe I should just go for the 12FET to overspec. I'm a big fan of that :)
 
IF your motor is geared, it is a MXUS.
Here is the controller Mxus sells for that motor;

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Minshine-eBIKE-Kits-with-LCD-excellent-solution/939343390.html

This one has the display with 5 level assist mode which is really nice. You can set the cruise control and adj. the top speed with the assist mode.
The info here is sketchy, it says 250 Watts, but I'm pretty sure it's 14 Amps.
If you want more popwer(torque, sort of), there is a 6-FET 36V 500 Watt version probably 17 Amps.
You can get and use the controller without the display, but maybe the Ebike Gods were telling you to upgrade :roll: .
Shop here at Aliexpress, not Alibaba.
You can search for more info on these units, starting with the MXUS motor home page.
 
Identifying exactly which motor came with your kit and what it's true capabilities are would help you make a more informed decision on whether to go with a 12 FET or not.

In your situation, you would probably want to investigate whether or not the controller you are considering is user programmable. If it is, do you want to program it yourself? If not, does it have the HVC and LVC cutoffs programmed to match the battery you are using? Also check the wiring layout for compatibility. Fixing the one you have is an option if you are really into fixing stuff, but a small controller like that really is so inexpensive, it's not worth it IMO. One thing about replacement is that you can cannibalize the connectors off the old controller if they are not compatible with the new one and splice them in as needed.

If your old controller is rated for say, 14A, as motomech suggested and you start putting 40A into the motor with a new 12FET, it may become rebellious and take up smoking, misbehave, or flat lay down and die on you.
 
Hugechainring said:
Identifying exactly which motor came with your kit and what it's true capabilities are would help you make a more informed decision on whether to go with a 12 FET or not.

In your situation, you would probably want to investigate whether or not the controller you are considering is user programmable. If it is, do you want to program it yourself? If not, does it have the HVC and LVC cutoffs programmed to match the battery you are using? Also check the wiring layout for compatibility. Fixing the one you have is an option if you are really into fixing stuff, but a small controller like that really is so inexpensive, it's not worth it IMO. One thing about replacement is that you can cannibalize the connectors off the old controller if they are not compatible with the new one and splice them in as needed.

If your old controller is rated for say, 14A, as motomech suggested and you start putting 40A into the motor with a new 12FET, it may become rebellious and take up smoking, misbehave, or flat lay down and die on you.
Click to expand...

Do you have any recommendations for identifying the exact motor? It is a geared front hub motor. Only markings on it are XF07 1310 0154. Doing some google searches, this seems remarkably similar, although the last 4 numbers are different. Only has 3 connectors, none of the small 5-wire connectors that I've read indicate a motor with a sensor.

On the controller, it has some info:

Model: 36v
phase degree: 120
limited Current: 22A
Low voltage protect 31.5v
Electric frequency: low frequency
Function: E-ABS, Energy Feedback, Mute

Then there are 2 plugs for handle-bar break cut-off, B+R battery power in, a whiteish large 2-pin on/off, a 5-pin connector for the thumb throttle (so hall effect throttle?), and then Y-G-B anderson poles for the motor.

Need me to crack it open and take some pictures inside? I've got a macro lens, so I can get some good shots of part numbers. As for repair...I figure it's probably not worth it due to possible hidden damage, and it isn't going to be _that_ expensive to replace.
 
I wish I could help you on the motor. My immediate thought after considering the fact it is not a direct drive motor is that more current (power) possibly could damage the gears.

You seem to have plenty of info available on the controller. Going back to your first post, I would suggest contacting EM3EV again and give them all the info on your controller, send them some pics of the unit and the connectors and see if they can clone it for you. They probably know exactly what it is. In addition , they have the knowledge and ability to customize stuff, unlike some "suppliers" You could chase this around on your own for some time and not find what you are looking for. It may not be the least expensive way to go, but your time is worth something.
 
when you reversed polarity the current flowed through the body diodes of the mosfets and immediately reverse charged the capacitors which blew up and the shunt is now blown open from the huge the current surge your BMS should have stopped it as soon as over current was reached.

if you replace the caps and the shunt it may work again since the shunt would have blown open early in the event so the reverse voltage applied to the regulators may not have damaged them so the remainder of the controller would be ok.
 
OK, so took some good photos of the controller after pulling it apart. I have small images, and then click on it and you'll get the full resolution image (very large, >10MB each).

It definitely looks like the 2 large blue caps on the end together have blown. And I'm guessing the 2 wires in the middle sorta underneath the red & green wires that have a gap between them are the shunt.

http://www.darkobjects.net/controller/
 
too bad the BMS did not shut off or it mighta saved the shunts. also regretable, the value of the shunt is not labeled on the pcb so you would know which to order from mouser or digikey.
 
Dnmun has got the path of destruction laid out pretty well. You can see the two shunts blown open, and the one cap is popped for sure. I noticed two small burn marks on the traces on the board near the VB- marker. They look like two tiny cigarette burns. If these traces are burned through, you would need to fix those also. Then there are the regulators. If you had these parts in your back pocket, it would certainly be easier to make a decision.
 
Your motor is a MXUS XF07.

It will run up to about 22 amps. depending whether you have the domestic or export windings and magnets. Any controller up to 22 amps will work with it. It would probably be best to get a hall sensor one for smoother operation. As your present controller has nine FETS, I'd guess that you have the export motor, and the controller's set to the motor's maximum 22 amps.

If you want the easiest replacement, get a KU93 from BMSBattery. They have automatic phase and hall sequence detection, so should work directly after connection. For other controllers, you have to find the sequence yourself.

If you want to use the pedal assist, get a controller with an LCD and 5 levels. BTN on Aliexpress have some nice ones.
 
That's a controller that Ampedbikes doesn't show on their site. There's been talk for the last couple of years about them sub'ing kit parts without informing the customer. They are pretty sketchy outfit anyway.
As far as I know, the only two motors they offer are both made by MXUS, the DD 9c type and the 2.3 Kg. geared mini. The original poster should look at the motor in my second link to make sure that is the motor he has. That is a Ampedbikes MXUS geared mini.
I have used 4 different controllers on my motor over the years, ranging from 15 amps to 25 Amps, and they all have worked fine. The MXUS geared is a low count pole motor and it not at all picky about the controller.
Currently, I'm using a 22 Amp 6-FET Mini-monster from Lyen.
A 9-FET controller is certainly not needed for that motor and a 6-FET is easier to mount. Any 15 to 22 Amp brushless controller will work, but if the battery doesn't have a BMS, attention should be payed to the LVC value which should be 31 to 32 V.
Speaking of LVC, the battery you have is probably more important than the controller. If you have the Ampedbikes "bottle battery", it is doubtful that it could "feed"a 22 Amp controller. I would think they would know that, but I wouldn't put it past them to ship out a kit configured that way anyhow.
I am assuming that you would like to ride your bike sometime soon, so I would suggest that you buy a new controller rather than trying to fix that one. You can try and repair it later, a spare controller, as you have found out, is good to have.
If you want to get on the road ASAP, an option would be to talk to the nice folks at Ebike CA. They offer a conversion kit which uses the Outrider motor, a motor that is very, very close to the MXUS geared mini.
or_stdkit_1.jpg
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/conversion-kits/geared/front-mini-geared-kit-basic-throttle.html
Justin offers controllers both in 15 A and 20 a versions. They have direct plug-in for the Cycle Analyst, an accessory many here consider almost a "must have".
 
Personally, I would buy a controller that mates to the new S-LCD3 display.
s-led770-e-bike-led-meter.jpg


http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/670-s-led770-e-bike-led-meter.html

Everyone who has used this display with 5 level assist, loves it. It really makes the Ebike experience much nicer.
 
Thanks for giving me a bit more info on the controller. I've been emailing with some great guys over at ebikes.ca, and the C3620-NC should work perfectly fine for my setup. Only thing lacking would be the remote on/off switch, but I might just de-solder on/off switch they have and run some wires out to a connector for the on-off switch on the handlebars. Maybe. As for the remnants of my controller...I'll keep it around for some spare parts, perhaps. Otherwise, I don't think I'll trust it.

And to prevent this from happening again, I need to put in a fuse on the battery pack. Would those auto blade fuses work? What size should I use for a 36v pack? I'm guessing a 20A, since the controller maxes out at that.
 
Yes a 20A auto in line fuse will work. But they have be known to arc and melt sometimes, maybe buy 2 fuse holders so you have a spare one if you need it.
 
You could start there with the fuse, but I would anticipate going a little higher, which may affect your choice of fuse holders. Those blade type fuses are regarded as fast acting, so they may not tolerate the inrush current when you hook up the controller.

There is another thread floating around. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61521&hilit=fuse+holder. The suggestion was to use two fuses in parallel at 1/2 the desired protection each, in order to increase reliability.

You might consider making a nice little precharge gizmo that you could install temporarily in one of the fuse holders when hooking up your battery. After a few seconds the capacitors would be charged, and you could install the first fuse, then remove and replace the precharge gizmo with the remaining fuse.
 
I think we all have had a few unwanted sparks.
Choice of hardware, connectors that foolproof polarity, protect live surfaces.
I just got a jst parallel harness from Hobbyking, hooked up one set of balance leads, plugged in the second set and you guessed it, SPARKS. Have to check and check again before any connection.
 
Wow, got my new controller FAST. I wasn't expecting the FedEx option to be next-day. For only $10 more over the Canada Post options, although I imagine if it had been something heavy like batteries it would have been a different story. Either way, I think next time I'm doing any e-bike parts shopping, I'll probably send it to ebikes.ca.

More on topic, got my fuses, but the fuse holders are estimated to get to me Friday. How positively annoying :cry: Tonight I'll just go ahead and make sure everything works as it should.
 
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