new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[DingusMcGee]

robocam,

It is $200 more for the 25r's than the 26f. I chose the 26f's because I wanted to do some long loop rides and figured I did not need the extra current. A lot of trail riding is just putzing along.

Now that yu have filled me in on some additional details I suppose the 25r pack most likely would crank somewhat harder but 50%++ grade hill climbs are not exactly common on loop trails in the woods. And this bike can go up the 50%'s with the 26f's. Are you 285 lbs?

As Luna did not have the 25r pack in stock when I bought, the choices were to wait or to get what was likely suitable and in stock.

But I did chose to buy 150 Samsung 30q's over 150 Samsung 25r's. I need a custom shaped pack for my Specialized FSR bike.

 

[robocam]

So get 4 or 8 of these and run series parallel?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21384__ZIPPY_Compact_5800mAh_7S_25C_Lipo_Pack.html

I feel like I'd have to charge them outdoors in case the charger malfunctions. How would I make sure they don't go below 3V per cell? The BMSs on eBay go down to 2.5V.

The Cyclone controller will keep steady at 40 amps, but peaks will be closer to 50 amps, so expect the occasional 40+ amp peak for a second or so, especially when gunning it. I would go with the better battery; that's why I went with LiPos (vs LiFePo), so my performance wasn't limited by my batteries... but by my right hand twisting more or less...

G.

 

[gman1971]

So get 4 or 8 of these and run series parallel?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21384__ZIPPY_Compact_5800mAh_7S_25C_Lipo_Pack.html

I feel like I'd have to charge them outdoors in case the charger malfunctions. How would I make sure they don't go below 3V per cell? The BMSs on eBay go down to 2.5V.

The Cyclone controller will keep steady at 40 amps, but peaks will be closer to 50 amps, so expect the occasional 40+ amp peak for a second or so, especially when gunning it. I would go with the better battery; that's why I went with LiPos (vs LiFePo), so my performance wasn't limited by my batteries... but by my right hand twisting more or less...

G.

Sure, I am not going to argue with the dangers of Lithium chemistry. But is just like a firearm, you are not afraid everytime you discharge it at the range its going to blow up in your face, aren't you?

Personally I would go for something a bit better than the Zippys, I've used them for RC helis and they weren't particularly good at longevity (which is what you'll probably want on an eBike). I would think more like the Turnigy Nanotechs of which I've heard good things... but never used. In the old days used to purchase exclusively ThunderPower batteries... but these are a very expensive proposition for something like an eBike. Right now I am using two LiPo 6S 12,000 mAh Multistar batteries in series for 48V... I haven't had a single issue with those and they are near 100 cycles already, and almost 1k miles.

The key is just get a decent charger; I have three, a 400W Turnigy Mega, a Cellpro 10S and a Turnigy Reaktor 250W... you can build your own powersupply out of an old PC ATX power supply... that will give you enough power to charge the packs in under 2 hours.

G.

 

[gman1971]

I am uploading a helmet cam video of my ebike commute; I took a different route this time, seems to be better since I don't have to stop as many times as the other route and battery consumption seems lower.

G.

 

[Nathan]

So this motor only peaks at 3000w at 72v and 2200w at 44v ? i thought that 3000w was the continuous rating hence more like 5 to 6kw peak at 72v.

That is not that powerful or much different to the smaller and lighter 48v 1680w cyclone that's a continuous rating, i have seen that motor peaks at 2900w or ego kit list it up to 3400w !

so what is the advantage of this motor that is a lot heaver like 1kg more than that ? apart from the noise as it seems quieter.

The downsides are its a lot heaver and more volumne, power is similar and you need a more expensive 72v batteries to get the same power as the smaller cyclone gets at 48v, that's the downside of low Kv i guess....

I think this confusion is due to how cyclone lists the motors on their website, some of them are listed as peak power and others continuous and not clearly listed.

 

[gman1971]

That seems correct, for my 44v setup (12S lipo) the motor will do 1800 sustained and 2200 peak. With that said I don't know at 72V but I assume that it will peak 49A x 72V which should be roughly 3500 watts peak and 2880 sustained (40A) Like that ergo kit you are describing.

Some people are reporting less than 40 amp draw at 72V, but I am not sure if these are a one-off or the rule for 72V application.

I would add that a motor is just something to convert electricity into mechanical work; the differences would be the ability to withstand heat and survive. So you could potentially get 320 kW out of this motor, but the chances of the motor surviving are slim... vs a motor that was built to take 320 kW.

G.

So this motor only peaks at 3000w at 72v and 2200w at 44v ? i thought that 3000w was the continuous rating hence more like 5 to 6kw peak at 72v.

That is not that powerful or much different to the smaller and lighter 48v 1680w cyclone that's a continuous rating, i have seen that motor peaks at 2900w or ego kit list it up to 3400w !

so what is the advantage of this motor that is a lot heaver like 1kg more than that ? apart from the noise as it seems quieter.

The downsides are its a lot heaver and more volumne, power is similar and you need a more expensive 72v batteries to get the same power as the smaller cyclone gets at 48v, that's the downside of low Kv i guess....

I think this confusion is due to how cyclone lists the motors on their website, some of them are listed as peak power and others continuous and not clearly listed.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Nathan wrote,

I think this confusion is due to how cyclone lists the motors on their website, some of them are listed as peak power and others continuous and not clearly listed.

I suggest to you get this clear: There is no standard of measuring power output for how these BLDC motors are rated. Even the continuous rating given is subject to not knowing what was the ambient temperature when the test for how long? was given [unless they tell you and still data is not a standard]. And any Peak Power Rating would have to give at what ambient temperature, for how long and a temperature rise rate to be of much design use. But there seemingly is a standard for BLDC motor Kv rating = revs / volt when motor is unloaded.

From such data given, as the motor is a 48v 1600watt, we would suspect, that if they reported the data correctly, the motor at 48v with an unlimited current supply consumed 1600 watts for a given effective R*. The effective R* here is due to the electrical resistance of the motor and the load put on the motor. A 300lb rider puts more effective R* on a given bike/motor setup than a 150 lb rider. But we do not know what R* they were using for their test. We could work backwards by experimental loadings and figure out how much load they had used in the test.

The motors do approximate Ohm's law in that V = I x R* and P = V x V / R*. So at 48v, P = 1600 = 48 x 48 / R* Where R* = 1.44 effective ohms. Then at 72v, we can approximate P = 72 x 72 / 1.44 = 3600 watts when allowed an unlimited current supply and the same effective R*.

 

[gman1971]

Another commute, this time from the helmet cam...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5AAqN1IwDk

Enjoy, 42mph top end! With winter spiked tires... can't wait for summer to roll... I am sure I can break into the 50s with this eBike...

G.

 

[gman1971]

Yet another commute (today's commute) This time a different route...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8ZOCdyOtCs

G.

 

[evolutiongts]

Switched to my greentime controller got 43mph on 74v but throttle is very twitchy. Motor was also very warm.

 

[gman1971]

Switched to my greentime controller got 43mph on 74v but throttle is very twitchy. Motor was also very warm.

SWEEET!!! Hot dang, 43 mph!! Now you're talking... what RPM are you achieveing the top speed at? and what gearing?

G.

 

[evolutiongts]

Switched to my greentime controller got 43mph on 74v but throttle is very twitchy. Motor was also very warm.

SWEEET!!! Hot dang, 43 mph!! Now you're talking... what RPM are you achieveing the top speed at? and what gearing?

G.

Not sure about the RPM, i was in top gear. 26 inch wheel. 48t middle ring and 32t rear

 

[gman1971]

Switched to my greentime controller got 43mph on 74v but throttle is very twitchy. Motor was also very warm.

SWEEET!!! Hot dang, 43 mph!! Now you're talking... what RPM are you achieveing the top speed at? and what gearing?

G.

Not sure about the RPM, i was in top gear. 26 inch wheel. 48t middle ring and 32t rear

48T and 32T? that sounds a little odd, shouldn't it be 11T or 13T? 1st gear is usually the big sprocket (32T or 36T), and the larger the gear the smaller the cog in teeth count. For me 10th gear is 11T, 1st gear is 36T

G.

 

[evolutiongts]

Its the 11t in the rear.

 

[evolutiongts]

In the quest for more power and better control I'm putting on, one of my 12kw sinewave controllers.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75235

 

[gman1971]

In the quest for more power and better control I'm putting on, one of my 12kw sinewave controllers.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75235

Sweet deal! Let us know how it holds, I suspect you'll breach 50mph if you can make the motor spin high RPM...

G.

 

[evolutiongts]

Hit 45mph and still no maxed out, unfortunately the chain fell and locked up.

 

[gman1971]

Ouch, is the bike okay?

G.

Hit 45mph and still no maxed out, unfortunately the chain fell and locked up.

 

[skyeg3]

Does anyone know if this motor can do regenerative braking? I am thinking of using it for a buggy..

 

[spinningmagnets]

No regen.

 

[gman1971]

Does anyone know if this motor can do regenerative braking? I am thinking of using it for a buggy..

yep, no regen as is with the freewheel; but if you take the freewheel and replace it with a solid sprocket then I see no reason why it wouldn't be able to do regen.

G.

 

[evolutiongts]

There's a bit of play on the freewheel crank. Not good but bike still runs great.

Consumption is a bit higher since I'm running 70A battery and 120A phase.
Acceleration is fantastic.
The original cyclone controller was very twitchy and would wheelie with slight throttle, its more tame now. Power now kicks in toward half to full throttle. More controllable.
Don't want to set the phase too high otherwise power kicks in too abruptly. Right now its perfect and its smooth.

 

[gman1971]

Well, that was expected, the consumption I mean... and a new crank is not too bad/expensive to fix so that's great!

And 70A x 72V is around 5kW, holy smokes, it must be a freaking crouch rocket. Any new top speed? with 5kW you should be pushing 50mph...

G.

There's a bit of play on the freewheel crank. Not good but bike still runs great.

Consumption is a bit higher since I'm running 70A battery and 120A phase.
Acceleration is fantastic.
The original cyclone controller was very twitchy and would wheelie with slight throttle, its more tame now. Power now kicks in toward half to full throttle. More controllable.
Don't want to set the phase too high otherwise power kicks in too abruptly. Right now its perfect and its smooth.

 

[DingusMcGee]

gman1971,

come this Monday [receiving day]my C3000 ebike will be one up on yours. Yes, a Sabvotan controller from evolutiongnts is in the mail. I do not think the OEM controller can handle much over 80v maybe 82v briefly not to mention the low amperage and lack of programming features[but yes, thanks for informing us about 3 power modes]. I had been looking at a Kelly Sinusoidal Controller of similar capacity but with its shipping from China it's $ outlay compared to the Sabvoton is about the same. Plus with the Sabvotan controller, I have a line to the local expert. Thanks to Gman1971 and evolutiongts.

 

[evolutiongts]

I opened the cyclone controller and it only has 80v caps, and was only hitting 38mph max, I believe the cyclone controller limits top speed if over a certain voltage, the 3 speed switch didn't make much difference to me.

With the Sabvoton I'm hitting over 45mph on the same voltage with a greater degree of tunability. This controller supports flux weakening to boost top speed even more. I'm running 110a phase amps but can do up to 350a, which will make for crazy wheelies and burnouts but I want to minimize shock to the drive train.

I'm familiar with the sabvoton controllers and have been using them for two years now.

I'm ran cromotor, mxus, QS motor, transmag mid drive and now cyclone mid drive.