new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[gman1971]

17000 for 28 miles sounds really good... what kind of Wh / mile are you getting?

I have 10-12% hills around here that really take a toll on the packs. You must be living on a much flatter place; I cannot dream on getting those numbers, every time I hit one of those hills and want to maintain as close to 30 mph the wattage pegs to 2.2 kW and the mAh count skyrockets.

G.

 

[le15otl]

Don't have a CA but just calculated it to be about 30Wh/mile.
The route isn't flat but the hills that are there are pretty short and steep so overall there's not much climbing.
My bike wouldn't do 30mph up the hills but I do usually try to do them quick because whizzing up steep hills proportionally effects range less than going faster on flat since energy is put into gaining altitude rather than on high speed flat where it's wasted overcoming drag.

Tbh I don't really know why my battery consumption is as it is. Maybe it's because my AUW with everything is quite low at under 95kg or maybe my average spd is slightly off.

 

[juanfeli]

I have similar readings. I'm doing an average of 26.6 Wh/mi and 1.7 Mi/Ah. This is in a very zigzag trial, and I can't push all the power that my C3000 has to offer otherwise I'd crash into a tree.
Also 96Kg for Everything.

 

[gman1971]

Don't have a CA but just calculated it to be about 30Wh/mile.
The route isn't flat but the hills that are there are pretty short and steep so overall there's not much climbing.
My bike wouldn't do 30mph up the hills but I do usually try to do them quick because whizzing up steep hills proportionally effects range less than going faster on flat since energy is put into gaining altitude rather than on high speed flat where it's wasted overcoming drag.

Tbh I don't really know why my battery consumption is as it is. Maybe it's because my AUW with everything is quite low at under 95kg or maybe my average spd is slightly off.

I am not doubting of the results... I am getting low 40 Wh/ mile maybe high 30s Wh/mile when wind agrees; yeah, but some of those hills for me are long enough that coming with momentum doesn't help much.

Snafu, pulledd numbers from trike...
~7000 mAh for 8.2 miles, would come to ~14,000 mAh for ~16 miles. I weight 175 lbs, and bike IIRC weights about 49 lbs. So AUW with rider is 101 kilos.

G.

 

[gman1971]

I have similar readings. I'm doing an average of 26.6 Wh/mi and 1.7 Mi/Ah. This is in a very zigzag trial, and I can't push all the power that my C3000 has to offer otherwise I'd crash into a tree.
Also 96Kg for Everything.

With my old GNG and a 22.6 mph average I was getting around 24 Wh / mile... so perhaps your average speed is slower.

G.

 

[juanfeli]

Yes it is. Avg MaxS 25.8 and AvgS 13.6

 

[sather]

Gman, what maximum amps are you getting on your CycleAnalyst with the shunt? The Cyclone controller is listed as 40 amp nominal with 100 amp peak? Do you have to go to a larger voltage battery to keep the amps below 40? EG: (3000 watts / 58.8 volts = 51 amps) or (3000 watts / 67.2 volts = 44.6 amps)

 

[gman1971]

Gman, what maximum amps are you getting on your CycleAnalyst with the shunt? The Cyclone controller is listed as 40 amp nominal with 100 amp peak? Do you have to go to a larger voltage battery to keep the amps below 40? EG: (3000 watts / 58.8 volts = 51 amps) or (3000 watts / 67.2 volts = 44.6 amps)

On the trike I am peaking 41.9 amps, and I haven't shunt-modded the controller yet. I am getting peaks of 3100W when packs are fresh at 74.9 x 41.9 amps.

G.

 

[robocam]

How were you peaking at 50 on your bike? I'm only getting ~41A.

Gman, what maximum amps are you getting on your CycleAnalyst with the shunt? The Cyclone controller is listed as 40 amp nominal with 100 amp peak? Do you have to go to a larger voltage battery to keep the amps below 40? EG: (3000 watts / 58.8 volts = 51 amps) or (3000 watts / 67.2 volts = 44.6 amps)

On the trike I am peaking 41.9 amps, and I haven't shunt-modded the controller yet. I am getting peaks of 3100W when packs are fresh at 74.9 x 41.9 amps.

G.

 

[gman1971]

How were you peaking at 50 on your bike? I'm only getting ~41A.

Gman, what maximum amps are you getting on your CycleAnalyst with the shunt? The Cyclone controller is listed as 40 amp nominal with 100 amp peak? Do you have to go to a larger voltage battery to keep the amps below 40? EG: (3000 watts / 58.8 volts = 51 amps) or (3000 watts / 67.2 volts = 44.6 amps)

On the trike I am peaking 41.9 amps, and I haven't shunt-modded the controller yet. I am getting peaks of 3100W when packs are fresh at 74.9 x 41.9 amps.

G.

Yes, good point, and I was surprised about that too. I was expecting the same 49.1 peaks on this kit, but apparently not on this controller. So suspect the shunts on those guys are not "perfectly" calibrated from factory; and a 10 amp difference is a ~750 watt difference at 75 volts. That's a lot. I'll be shunt-modding it anyways so I am not worried; and even though its doing less amps than the other bike, where my ebike would struggle (even at peak 49 amps), this guy just pulls like nothing its there at 35 amps.

G.

 

[gman1971]

On another note, after a week of riding the trike my carpal tunnel syndrome is all gone so I am super happy about that too. Trikes FTW...

G.

 

[sather]

My question is: am I doing the Cyclone 3000 controller harm by hitting it with a steady 50 amps at 58.8 volts? My 14s 25r pack has a 50 amp continuous 80 amp burst BMS. Is there any protection circuitry in the controller to prevent damage? I do not have a CycleAnalyst to monitor what is going on.

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

Hey EMCO, did that 148mm spindle length Giga Pipe ISIS bottom bracket allow the cranks to clear the motor?

Just got all my parts, hope to start on it this weekend.

EMCO, so did it work?

 

[gman1971]

My question is: am I doing the Cyclone 3000 controller harm by hitting it with a steady 50 amps at 58.8 volts? My 14s 25r pack has a 50 amp continuous 80 amp burst BMS. Is there any protection circuitry in the controller to prevent damage? I do not have a CycleAnalyst to monitor what is going on.

My gut feeling tells me NO, you'll be fine; as I was pulling 49 amps peaks when climbing hills, for probably ~1000 miles, the controller never got warm to the touch.

If you don't have CA, how do you know your current draw?

G,

 

[sather]

I don't. That why I was worried about the controller. I just know the amp rating of the controller (40amps) and the amp rating of the battery (50amps) and the volts of the battery (58.8) and the watt rating of the motor (3000 watts). I'm just going by the math. Amps X Volts = watts. 3000 watts divided by 58.8 volts = 51 amps.

 

[gman1971]

I don't. That why I was worried about the controller. I just know the amp rating of the controller (40amps) and the amp rating of the battery (50amps) and the volts of the battery (58.8) and the watt rating of the motor (3000 watts). I'm just going by the math. Amps X Volts = watts. 3000 watts divided by 58.8 volts = 51 amps.

Most likely you're somewhere between 40 and 50 amps peaks... so you should be fine, and also, 50 amps is only for uphills on the wrong gear... I rarely hit 49 amps on the eBike as I always downshift to get the motor spinning real fast when on uphills... keeps things running nicely.

G.

 

[gman1971]

I don't speak Russian but this link has a lot of useful information about our motors. If someone speaks Russian can probably get something out of it.

http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=34238.0

Looks like the C3000W motor is most efficient in around the 1500-2500 Watt input power window, so its good to know that I've been running my eBike always in the 1500-2000 ballpark... the trike is about the same Wattage average, but cruise is usually lower wattage than my ebike.

Interesting to see the torque at different slip RPM from unloaded, you can see torque almost triples from 1500W to 4.5kW when motor is pushed (or dragged).. also look at the thermal power, almost 1600 watts at 63V and only 1200 at 85V so perhaps this motor might like to be pushed higher voltage... but looks like efficiency suffers past the 4 kW mark...

Whoever wrote that post, very nice! благодаря (thanks)

G.

 

[1KW]

curious how it would ride if one switched to 72v but ran lower amps, on a sine wave controller....

 

[Esting]

Gman1971 and all.
right click on your link and use Translate with Bing

 

[gman1971]

Playing with the Batmobile trike Cyclone powered... HQ pics during the day!

I already have 120 miles on the trike... real happy with the results.

G.

 

[chupa]

I don't speak Russian but this link has a lot of useful information about our motors. If someone speaks Russian can probably get something out of it.

http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=34238.0

Looks like the C3000W motor is most efficient in around the 1500-2500 Watt input power window, so its good to know that I've been running my eBike always in the 1500-2000 ballpark... the trike is about the same Wattage average, but cruise is usually lower wattage than my ebike.

Interesting to see the torque at different slip RPM from unloaded, you can see torque almost triples from 1500W to 4.5kW when motor is pushed (or dragged).. also look at the thermal power, almost 1600 watts at 63V and only 1200 at 85V so perhaps this motor might like to be pushed higher voltage... but looks like efficiency suffers past the 4 kW mark...

Whoever wrote that post, very nice! благодаря (thanks)

G.

Hi ! I am author of this test.

I have extended test with kelly kbs72181-x controller.
Tables here:

http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=34238.msg790744#msg790744

Also i have test with noname sensorless low cost controller. The effective poor 20% with Kelly. You can read more info here:

http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=34238.msg792685#msg792685

Those tests made with 10 different levels of throttle. All range of throttle is divided by 10 levels and made test with fixed input power 300 700 1600 2400w.

Do not use this controller with this cyclone Kelly - the best .

 

[gman1971]

Very nice dude, thanks!

So, use the Kelly controller better than the Cyclone controller??

G.

 

[chupa]

Very nice dude, thanks!

So, use the Kelly controller better than the Cyclone controller??

G.

Cyclone controller is not tested , but i think that kelly will be better than Cyclone.

Also i have other test my tuned Cyclone 1650w with custom heatsink.

Translating of header of table:

КПД - is a EFF%
P потребляемая - is a P input
P механическая - P Out


The EFF% of this tuned motor like Cyc.3000w. But cyc 1650w have weigth 3kg. I wanted to change my Cyclone 1650w to new 3000w , but after compared tables I stay with my old cyclone 1650w.

For explanations - Cyclone 3000w - made in a china motor with mid quality . Cyclone 1650w made in Taiwan have good quality. But 1650w have loud sound of reducer . The 3000w - reducer sound is off...

 

[adam333]

The bike looks really clean Gman!

I really like what you did with your fairing. And your fender holder seems of much better quality than those I bought initially with the bike.

 

[dekes1]

a few pics of my Cyclone 3kw build.

Gravity FSX2.0 f/s bike, 19s10p 18650 pack, Cycle Analyst v3