evolutiongts
10 kW
Here are the upgraded motor mounts, solid block aluminum motor mount and steel plates. The motor on the right is using the stock but drilled aluminum plates.
new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?
- Thread starter emaayan
- Start date
BoomerChomsi
1 kW
Looking good man! Hopefully it is good as it looks 8)
DingusMcGee
100 kW
There is a "manual cruise" labeled set of wires on the C-3000 controller and they works on my controller despite that I have run at 84 volts for some time. The nice feature about this is that it just takes a pulse to activate so one can use a momentary contact switch to activate it. The cruise speed is set at the current throttle position at the time of the momentary pulse. After activating manual cruise the throttle has no response when twisting the throttle. When an ebrakes is pulled the manual cruise goes off and throttle position becomes active.
The disconcerting feature of this type of manual cruise is that once it is on simply turning the throttle when you want momentary acceleration will not work until you apply an ebrake or touch the kill switch.
If you connect the manual cruise with a SPST switch, the cruise control effect, once on, will come on automatically again after ebrake use and the throttle has been zeroed, if the cruise control switch has been left on, even though you did not deliberately set a speed the second time. The speed the controller seems to lock into is the highest speed your throttle had before the first backing off of the advancing throttle. I did not like this SPST action and went to the momentary contact switch. Perfect? I have a CA v-3 but find its auto locking cruise control often unwanted when activated.
This topic may have been covered earlier? -- just do not remember any post.
The disconcerting feature of this type of manual cruise is that once it is on simply turning the throttle when you want momentary acceleration will not work until you apply an ebrake or touch the kill switch.
If you connect the manual cruise with a SPST switch, the cruise control effect, once on, will come on automatically again after ebrake use and the throttle has been zeroed, if the cruise control switch has been left on, even though you did not deliberately set a speed the second time. The speed the controller seems to lock into is the highest speed your throttle had before the first backing off of the advancing throttle. I did not like this SPST action and went to the momentary contact switch. Perfect? I have a CA v-3 but find its auto locking cruise control often unwanted when activated.
This topic may have been covered earlier? -- just do not remember any post.
Just getting out and about. Still need the tensioner so I can't punch it or the motor gear slips. Got off the trails right as the police were pulling in.
https://youtu.be/fGdI0OSQ0tM
Enjoy the video, sound did't upload, but there wasn't much, it's quiet.
https://youtu.be/fGdI0OSQ0tM
Enjoy the video, sound did't upload, but there wasn't much, it's quiet.
gman1971
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2015
- Messages
- 997
Well, today it finally happened what was destined to happen, regardless of stupid tangential load arguments, "cretinos" thinking otherwise, or even if Cycle Analyst could compute the inertia tensor of an Voronoy shatttered dodecahedron using a focking lollipop... etc... it didn't matter a bit in the outcome, really; because today..., today I just didn't barely inched the 60 mph barrier, today I demolished it with flying colors and let go of the gas at 66 mph; yes you heard it right: 66 MPH, that's a whole load of 106 blazing fast KPH for those who don't speak MPH... and the trike was still pulling; oh, and wait... and all that awesomeness while racing and smoking a 125cc scooter on the process too... yeaahhh.... thats more like it... So I think all my tangential loads and other nonsense and are just fine thank you, and thanks to Robocam's side plate mod (actually half of it, but 100% thanks nonetheless), so thank you Robocam, I could've not done this without your awesome mod. Oh, as for the other tangential resistant Frankenstein edition fug-as-heck motor mount from another member, lets just say I tested it and it was too heavy and induced too much drag to get any speed higher than maybe 30-35 mph, and that is with a good tail wind... frocking yeah!!
Oh, all this on 5.5 kW... there was no need to dump some stupid insane amount of power to reach 66 mph... oh, and its called aerodynamics... yeah, and now the thread know-it-all will give you guys a few lessons about how much he knows about aerodynamics... have fun!
Cheers, and now back to the regular E-S programming... roger out.
G.
Oh, all this on 5.5 kW... there was no need to dump some stupid insane amount of power to reach 66 mph... oh, and its called aerodynamics... yeah, and now the thread know-it-all will give you guys a few lessons about how much he knows about aerodynamics... have fun!
Cheers, and now back to the regular E-S programming... roger out.
G.
adam333
1 kW
Gratz on the 66 mph G man 
DingusMcGee
100 kW
gman,
you're clueless and smell of being full it.
I've hit 69 mph here in WY with my Crystalyte Hub bike going downhill and with a Wyoming wind. Easy task.
but, I'd rather be trail riding. No skill in flat speed ---fuking boring
Trykes are for kids that have no balance skills.
you're clueless and smell of being full it.
I've hit 69 mph here in WY with my Crystalyte Hub bike going downhill and with a Wyoming wind. Easy task.
but, I'd rather be trail riding. No skill in flat speed ---fuking boring
Trykes are for kids that have no balance skills.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
The 72v battery for the C-3000 sold by Luna Cycles arrived yesterday and they insisted the shrink wrapped battery have an additional case. Rather than making an aluminum case I choose to make the panels from mahogany underlayment and "weld" the joints using nylon drywall tape as the tension agent and the bonding agent was ironed out hot glue from a standard hot glue gun. I have used this method of making battery boxes on half dozen packs and they hold up very well to the jolts of riding cobbles. Abrasions on the waterproof case are easily repaired with hot glue.
Here we see a close up the taping job which can be done with a few simple tools -- hot glue gun and an old iron.
The battery has been dubbed the Gman72 for a loggerhead trike authority on this site that irrationally insisted not to use 72v on C-3000 builds -- no evidence given to bolster his case -- different from this case. Now Luna guarantees the controller for 6 mo if you buy this battery pack and use it with the C-3000 controller.
The Gman72 battery comes with a free 84v Charger to blow the caps off those 80v c................... Joke is on gman. Well it just does not happen.
I wonder, can gman1971 read? This sites general group is for ebikes not etrikes. Yikes.
And yes this is not a washer job nor a blow job with hot air..............
The battery is what Luna Cycle calls their most compact battery -- I have gone for 2nd one.
Here we see a close up the taping job which can be done with a few simple tools -- hot glue gun and an old iron.
The battery has been dubbed the Gman72 for a loggerhead trike authority on this site that irrationally insisted not to use 72v on C-3000 builds -- no evidence given to bolster his case -- different from this case. Now Luna guarantees the controller for 6 mo if you buy this battery pack and use it with the C-3000 controller.
The Gman72 battery comes with a free 84v Charger to blow the caps off those 80v c................... Joke is on gman. Well it just does not happen.
I wonder, can gman1971 read? This sites general group is for ebikes not etrikes. Yikes.
And yes this is not a washer job nor a blow job with hot air..............
The battery is what Luna Cycle calls their most compact battery -- I have gone for 2nd one.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Well, finally yesterday I got to petal some 18 miles home. The breakdown wasn't from using 84v on those 80v caps -- you know -- the gman71 warning -- that never happens. Actually it may have been the gman2017th warning?
The [Sick Bike Parts heavy duty] motor freehub insides scattered on the road at the top of the last hill -- some 600 miles of use before failure on this one. It was quite obvious what happened. The threaded retaining plate simply backed out and fell off some where along the ride and I expect that soon to follow was the pawls of which I did see one drop to the dirt.
The likes of this failure was posted earlier but as I remember the poster did not have an idea how this could have happened. Maybe the plate on his motor freewheel backed out?
I have concluded the cover plate does need an occasional inspection and tightening or some locktite or spot welding to keep it from backing out and the insides falling out. Even a simple peening at the inner circular boundary of the annular plate with a center punch may hold the cover secure enough to keep it from backing out. Otherwise I think the freewheel from Sick Bike Parts was still in good condition bearing wise and pawl loading. I did buy from them again but will watch or modify this batch. The SBP motor freewheel does outlast the OEM C-3000 motor freewheel.
The [Sick Bike Parts heavy duty] motor freehub insides scattered on the road at the top of the last hill -- some 600 miles of use before failure on this one. It was quite obvious what happened. The threaded retaining plate simply backed out and fell off some where along the ride and I expect that soon to follow was the pawls of which I did see one drop to the dirt.
The likes of this failure was posted earlier but as I remember the poster did not have an idea how this could have happened. Maybe the plate on his motor freewheel backed out?
I have concluded the cover plate does need an occasional inspection and tightening or some locktite or spot welding to keep it from backing out and the insides falling out. Even a simple peening at the inner circular boundary of the annular plate with a center punch may hold the cover secure enough to keep it from backing out. Otherwise I think the freewheel from Sick Bike Parts was still in good condition bearing wise and pawl loading. I did buy from them again but will watch or modify this batch. The SBP motor freewheel does outlast the OEM C-3000 motor freewheel.
OK I took it to work friday and stashed it for later. Did a Long Wharf, lighthouse point, and east rock ride all after work. This is the New Haven CT area, to fill you guys in. If you have been through this area you remember the traffic Getting all good feedback from people about the bike. I even got some hipsters to pose for me for a picture. That ride was over 3 hours and was the best. I 3d printed the part to allow me to hook up the speedo. Fresh charge it does 35 on the flats and 30 up some steep hills. I head out at 75 volts and can go for a while before it gets below 70 volts, drops fast after 65 volts. Don't want to ride or push this to far, I have though. Doing %20, or less of 75 volts as my stop point, which is 60 volts more or less.
Rob
Rob
Attachments
DingusMcGee
100 kW
There are 2 motor freewheel hubs available from Sick Bike Parts either of which cost $24.95. The 14T hub is sold as the "heavy duty" one and its cover plate is not welded or peaned. The 13T hub has 2 welds to keep the cover plate from backing out.
View attachment 1
I have not yet used SBP's 13T motor hub and haven't much of clue which lasts longer.
I was able to salvage with pipe wrench and vise the 20mm hub adapter and reuse it with the 14T hub. With some 20mm shaft stock that was key wayed one could do a pretty clean extraction job of salvaging the hub. Mine has some pipe wrench marks on it now. On its first installation I liberally applied the copper colored anti-seize compound to both set of threads. The new hub adapters are a quite gummy alum and without the anti-seize would likely get well locked to the freewheel.
View attachment 1
I have not yet used SBP's 13T motor hub and haven't much of clue which lasts longer.
I was able to salvage with pipe wrench and vise the 20mm hub adapter and reuse it with the 14T hub. With some 20mm shaft stock that was key wayed one could do a pretty clean extraction job of salvaging the hub. Mine has some pipe wrench marks on it now. On its first installation I liberally applied the copper colored anti-seize compound to both set of threads. The new hub adapters are a quite gummy alum and without the anti-seize would likely get well locked to the freewheel.
Dogboy1200
100 W
Just got my Cyclone 3Kw from Luna and mounted it with my own spin on stiffening the mounting. There's been a lot of great ideas on how to do this in this thread that helped me formulate my own plan. Here's some chicken scratch showing my reasoning behind it.
Basically the motor pulls on the chain generating a coupling force that is reacted in 2 places causing forces X and Y in my chicken scratch. Distances A and B decide how much leverage (force multiplication) will be applied to X and Y. The easiest thing for me was to leave A as original and lengthen B as much as possible. This has been done in several other mods with great success. In the ones that I have seen a plate is put on the end of the motor and the main bolts are lengthened and spacers added to connect to it. This seems to work very well but it does put those extended fasteners in bending. I choose to add 2 struts that tie that point to the stock mounting plate near the bottom bracket where it is very strong. I also added 2 struts between the stock plates that prevent the plates from parallelograming (if that's even a word but you know what I mean). The struts are made from 1/8 in x 1/2 steel I got from Home Depot for 5 bucks. I just drilled a hole near the end then bent it to shape with a hammer and vise (very easy, don't really need the hammer but it helps make the bend radius a little tighter), cut it with a hacksaw and match drilled the other end and bolted it. I also cleaned up the rough edges on the bench grinder. The whole process was quite easy and the finished product is solid as a rock.
View attachment 2
View attachment 1
Basically the motor pulls on the chain generating a coupling force that is reacted in 2 places causing forces X and Y in my chicken scratch. Distances A and B decide how much leverage (force multiplication) will be applied to X and Y. The easiest thing for me was to leave A as original and lengthen B as much as possible. This has been done in several other mods with great success. In the ones that I have seen a plate is put on the end of the motor and the main bolts are lengthened and spacers added to connect to it. This seems to work very well but it does put those extended fasteners in bending. I choose to add 2 struts that tie that point to the stock mounting plate near the bottom bracket where it is very strong. I also added 2 struts between the stock plates that prevent the plates from parallelograming (if that's even a word but you know what I mean). The struts are made from 1/8 in x 1/2 steel I got from Home Depot for 5 bucks. I just drilled a hole near the end then bent it to shape with a hammer and vise (very easy, don't really need the hammer but it helps make the bend radius a little tighter), cut it with a hacksaw and match drilled the other end and bolted it. I also cleaned up the rough edges on the bench grinder. The whole process was quite easy and the finished product is solid as a rock.
View attachment 2
View attachment 1
juanfeli
100 W
That's a pretty cool mod!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dogboy1200
100 W
Thanks!juanfeli said:
I have now placed and received two orders for Cyclone 3000 products from Sick Bike Parts. What a great experience. They answer emails promptly and ship product immediately. I received one order in 3 days and the other is 2 days with standard shipping rates. They easily have the best customer service of anyone I have done business with in the E-bike industry.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Dogboy1200,
from some of your photos I see the gear clamp around the aluminum hinges section of the motor. Is the gear clamp part of your system even with all the bracing?
The action of what you call paralelogramming is discussed engineering wise usually as shear motion. In general the 2 ways of restraining shearing motion is with diagonal bracing or shear walls. Diagonal bracing is usually a lighter fix to prevent shear motion but such bars can be accidentally deformed easier than shear walls can be altered enough to cause misalignment problems.
You have made the better choice in your frame stiffening design by not using the cantilever bending strength of bolts to lessen motor rotation [flexing] about the right side anchors. Your design [thru bolts] will eliminate the slinky hook up that the threaded sleeves allow. The stiffness is likely to be enough so that maximum loaded deflection is less than the play between [the bigger] chain link and a motor freewheel teeth.
from some of your photos I see the gear clamp around the aluminum hinges section of the motor. Is the gear clamp part of your system even with all the bracing?
The action of what you call paralelogramming is discussed engineering wise usually as shear motion. In general the 2 ways of restraining shearing motion is with diagonal bracing or shear walls. Diagonal bracing is usually a lighter fix to prevent shear motion but such bars can be accidentally deformed easier than shear walls can be altered enough to cause misalignment problems.
You have made the better choice in your frame stiffening design by not using the cantilever bending strength of bolts to lessen motor rotation [flexing] about the right side anchors. Your design [thru bolts] will eliminate the slinky hook up that the threaded sleeves allow. The stiffness is likely to be enough so that maximum loaded deflection is less than the play between [the bigger] chain link and a motor freewheel teeth.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
sather,
so true. Sick Bike Parts ship very quickly. I have no hesitation in doing business with them.
so true. Sick Bike Parts ship very quickly. I have no hesitation in doing business with them.
Dogboy1200
100 W
DingusMcGee said:
I put that clamp around the motor and aluminum blocks and then another one that's perpendicular to it (and captured by it) that goes around the frame tube. The combination of these 2 clamps prevent rotation around the bottom bracket. I did the same thing on my BBSHD after it rotated a little bit after hitting some big jumps. I covered the clamps with some heat shrink for looks.
spinningmagnets
100 TW
Dear Dogboy1200, your angled braces are correct.
Dogboy1200
100 W
spinningmagnets said:
Thanks!
DingusMcGee
100 kW
SpinningMag
What the hell does correct mean in this context? There is no set standard on how one chooses to beef up the C-3000 motor frame to justify making such a claim as correct. In fact his braces incorporate one of worst choices as to how to connect them: Bending the ends of flat stock braces.
Here is a line of truth about braces made of flat stock: When they lay flat and are pinned in the same line as they lay they are the strongest. Dogboy1200's braces have bends at each end that can straighten out some [gain length] under loading and may result in a permanent set with a little more length than what would be good alignment in the action he is trying to prevent.
How could such an event happen? By hitting rocks. Perhaps not to likely on pavement. But bending could happen on trails when having a little riding setup error in passing through slightly offset rock slots that the pedals and bike angle need to be synchronized with travel sort of precisely. They are somewhat exposed.
Dogboy has incorporated several sets of braces [known as redundancy in engineering] that restrain the tangential chain force at the motor and the motor torque couple. So if end straightening of one flat bar occurs the others could likely hold alignment close enough? The outside braces are somewhat exposed.
What the hell does correct mean in this context? There is no set standard on how one chooses to beef up the C-3000 motor frame to justify making such a claim as correct. In fact his braces incorporate one of worst choices as to how to connect them: Bending the ends of flat stock braces.
Here is a line of truth about braces made of flat stock: When they lay flat and are pinned in the same line as they lay they are the strongest. Dogboy1200's braces have bends at each end that can straighten out some [gain length] under loading and may result in a permanent set with a little more length than what would be good alignment in the action he is trying to prevent.
How could such an event happen? By hitting rocks. Perhaps not to likely on pavement. But bending could happen on trails when having a little riding setup error in passing through slightly offset rock slots that the pedals and bike angle need to be synchronized with travel sort of precisely. They are somewhat exposed.
Dogboy has incorporated several sets of braces [known as redundancy in engineering] that restrain the tangential chain force at the motor and the motor torque couple. So if end straightening of one flat bar occurs the others could likely hold alignment close enough? The outside braces are somewhat exposed.
spinningmagnets
100 TW
Just my opinion, I like them. Of course, even these could be further improved? Your suggestion to upgrade to something better than flat bar stock sounds useful.
KalSteve
1 W
I took Spinningmagnet's comment that Dogboy's braces are "correct" to mean that his calculations are correct and his solution is pretty neat. I agree.
Dingus' assertion that the braces are not perfect and may be subject to distortion at the bends under extreme load is technically correct. However, given the bends are very close to the fastening points the amount of extension possible in the event of major torsion is minimal. Of all the solutions offered so far, most of which are excellent, I think this one is the strongest and most elegant.
Dingus' assertion that the braces are not perfect and may be subject to distortion at the bends under extreme load is technically correct. However, given the bends are very close to the fastening points the amount of extension possible in the event of major torsion is minimal. Of all the solutions offered so far, most of which are excellent, I think this one is the strongest and most elegant.
spinningmagnets
100 TW
I'm sure there is some "perfect solution", but...I recall a saying that "let not the perfect be the enemy of the good".
Continue to work towards a perfect solution if you desire that, but...a "good solution" today...is sometimes better than a perfect solution that never gets produced...
I am of a firm opinion that the Dogboy1200 braces are a significant improvement, obviously affordable and readily available to those with basic fabricating skills. Anyone wishing to counter that they are inappropriate in some way, are recommended to post pics of a better solution.
If a suggested "improvement" over these is not so improved as to warrant the actual production of a prototype and pics to present as a persuasive argument in their favor, then perhaps their improved status is self-evident as to being so modest, that it is not worth the effort of fabrication and public consideration?...
If anyone thinks there is something better...how about you show us?
Continue to work towards a perfect solution if you desire that, but...a "good solution" today...is sometimes better than a perfect solution that never gets produced...
I am of a firm opinion that the Dogboy1200 braces are a significant improvement, obviously affordable and readily available to those with basic fabricating skills. Anyone wishing to counter that they are inappropriate in some way, are recommended to post pics of a better solution.
If a suggested "improvement" over these is not so improved as to warrant the actual production of a prototype and pics to present as a persuasive argument in their favor, then perhaps their improved status is self-evident as to being so modest, that it is not worth the effort of fabrication and public consideration?...
If anyone thinks there is something better...how about you show us?
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Cal Steve,
you have offered:
without any criteria for excellence.
A most reasonable and measurable criteria for excellence and good engineering/design is: Does the motor bracket allow less movement under heavy loading and interior forces to deflect less than 1/2 the space between a motor freewheel tooth and the narrow link of the chain. Why this? To keep the motor chain on under the highest likely loads encountered with perhaps a safety factor of[ 2?]. For that criteria we would have 0.5 x ( 0.092" - 0.078") = about 0.007" max deflection under a tangential chain load 400lbs + 200ils?? for inertial loading [the symmetrical torque couple contributes much less deflection]. The deflection measured between the bottom bracket shell and the motor freewheel.
You also offered:
As for elegance, what is the criteria? May I suggest expense, number of pieces, number of holes, total added weight [? maybe] and meeting the above minimal deflection. Just so you have the data of what my design takes: 1 piece of alum "Z" stock and one 2.5" circular section [can be made of PVC] & longer bolts. Minimum holes drilled into the motor frame is 3. The bolt compressed circular section creates a shear wall which prevents the parallelogramming of the motor frame.
Oh, and my motor frame's deflection is 0.0015" per 150 lbs of tangential chain pull as measured with a dial gauge fixed tangential loading weight. I have not thrown a motor chain on this ebike under all my trail riding loadings but I have changed out the Cyclone BB freewheel for the White Industries made BB freewheel sold by Sick Bike Parts. My other ebike with the C-3000 supporting an array of 4 gear clamps has on a couple of severe occasions thrown the motor chain -- it has the OEM C-3000 BB freewheel.
Spinning Mag, we agree on some of the criteria for the motor bracket enhancements.
you have offered:
without any criteria for excellence.
A most reasonable and measurable criteria for excellence and good engineering/design is: Does the motor bracket allow less movement under heavy loading and interior forces to deflect less than 1/2 the space between a motor freewheel tooth and the narrow link of the chain. Why this? To keep the motor chain on under the highest likely loads encountered with perhaps a safety factor of[ 2?]. For that criteria we would have 0.5 x ( 0.092" - 0.078") = about 0.007" max deflection under a tangential chain load 400lbs + 200ils?? for inertial loading [the symmetrical torque couple contributes much less deflection]. The deflection measured between the bottom bracket shell and the motor freewheel.
You also offered:
As for elegance, what is the criteria? May I suggest expense, number of pieces, number of holes, total added weight [? maybe] and meeting the above minimal deflection. Just so you have the data of what my design takes: 1 piece of alum "Z" stock and one 2.5" circular section [can be made of PVC] & longer bolts. Minimum holes drilled into the motor frame is 3. The bolt compressed circular section creates a shear wall which prevents the parallelogramming of the motor frame.
Oh, and my motor frame's deflection is 0.0015" per 150 lbs of tangential chain pull as measured with a dial gauge fixed tangential loading weight. I have not thrown a motor chain on this ebike under all my trail riding loadings but I have changed out the Cyclone BB freewheel for the White Industries made BB freewheel sold by Sick Bike Parts. My other ebike with the C-3000 supporting an array of 4 gear clamps has on a couple of severe occasions thrown the motor chain -- it has the OEM C-3000 BB freewheel.
Spinning Mag, we agree on some of the criteria for the motor bracket enhancements.
