new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[tomjasz]

I called electric rider and got the shunt adapter without the connectors I believe it was just $30

Thanks that's great, I like not waiting. Another source in the market

 

[cwah]

I start to be considering cyclone if it has enough torque as my leafmotor at on kelly 300A doesn't feel torquy enough...

However, is it reliable enough for a daily commuter? What chain and cassette are you using? What about rain and parts that may need replacing?

 

[tomjasz]

I start to be considering cyclone if it has enough torque as my leafmotor at on kelly 300A doesn't feel torquy enough...

However, is it reliable enough for a daily commuter? What chain and cassette are you using? What about rain and parts that may need replacing?

Hey cwah I run into you nearly everyday. Do you have any pictures of your Leaf? I've only seen photos of Neptronix. Which Leaf do you have? Solid mid drive guy here but I have a front wheel maxus and am constantly going back and forth on a rear DD.

Thanks!!

 

[lantice13]

1k peak is nothing, I'm doing 750w-2.5kw on steep climbs, inclines so steep the front wheel lifts up, but the back tires wants to keep going and going.

lol coming from a GNG gen 1, 1.5 kw can lift the front pretty good already specially with the stock controllers with that unknown motor control profile. it will bend stuff over time too with hard hammering of the throttle.

 

[gman1971]

What is the best way to remove all these unneeded wires?
How do I avoid shorting something out and causing damage?
Electrical newb here...don't wanna hamburger it...so much wirey mess...
Connections all make sense, but lot of leftovers.

I tucked all the wires inside the motor plates. I also put everything inside ziploc bags and ziptied everything for waterproofness... so far it hasn't missed a beat in Wisconsin's salty and sludgy roads.

G.

 

[gman1971]

I start to be considering cyclone if it has enough torque as my leafmotor at on kelly 300A doesn't feel torquy enough...

However, is it reliable enough for a daily commuter? What chain and cassette are you using? What about rain and parts that may need replacing?

It is my daily commuter and water hasn't been a problem since I wrapped all the connectors inside ziploc bags in, all tucked between the motor plates so you can't see any cables at all. So far nothing has needed replacement and I've clocked ~400 miles, all troublefree miles.

I am running a Shimano Deore RD-615 Shadow Plus (wanted the clutch) on rear, Shimano Altus front derailleur; both SLX index shifters (and the right one is modified to work with throttle) I am running a KMC 10 speed chain. (I think is 10.99) Cassette I am running Shimano Deore 10speed CS-HG62-10. I am running Avid BB7 disc on front on 180mm rotor and Avid BB5 on rear on 160mm rotor.

On 12S as it stands now it can pull two trailers with a combined weight of ~100 lbs up a 10% snow covered dirt hill at 10+ mph, so.... if that isn't enough torque for you then perhaps you should consider a Hayabusa...

G.

 

[gman1971]

1k peak is nothing, I'm doing 750w-2.5kw on steep climbs, inclines so steep the front wheel lifts up, but the back tires wants to keep going and going.

lol coming from a GNG gen 1, 1.5 kw can lift the front pretty good already specially with the stock controllers with that unknown motor control profile. it will bend stuff over time too with hard hammering of the throttle.

Well, 1k peak is nothing for this kit as well. On 12S (48V) this kit will easily pull ~2.2kW when batts are fresh; and about 1600 when batteries are at 43 volts. Hammering the throttle on the 34-36T sprocket, at any battery level, at low speed is an instant bike flip if you hold the throttle for more than a fraction of a second. It runs very cool as well, I have attached a temp sensor to the side and so far the motor case hasn't reached 60F on a 20F ambient at 1800 watts sustained cruise commute at 30mph.

This kit offers something no GNG kit has: it is super compact and doesn't have all the extra crap hanging out exposed. For me riding around Wisconsin salty and sludgy roads in a Gen1 GNG wasn't the way to go: belts will corrode, salt will get everywhere... plus GNG customer service is utter rubbish... had to get Payal involved with a serious dispute just to get a "replacement" crank which they should've sent as a replacement for free. They will nickel and dime you every step of the way, asking to help their roommate with the expenses on the plane ticket... etc. GNG is NOT worth it, seriously....

In my 400 mile experience with this Cyclone kit, 12S LiPo won't lift the front wheel at any road speed on its own, and I doubt anything ebike-wise with just 2.5 kW will do as well, again, not it at any road speeds and definitively not without any help from the rider (leaning back, jerking the front up... etc) From a dead stop or very slow speed? Absolutely, it will flip the bike on command. Now, running it on 72V might pull a wheelie at speed, but seriously, why abuse the bike drivetrain? In my experience the bike is perfectly well mannered with a 30mph cruising speed and at 1500-1800 watt power draw.

G.

 

[tomjasz]

Another shunt source! $34.95 delivered Grin version
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/connectors/cycle-satiator-shunt-ca3/

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

1k peak is nothing, I'm doing 750w-2.5kw on steep climbs, inclines so steep the front wheel lifts up, but the back tires wants to keep going and going.

lol coming from a GNG gen 1, 1.5 kw can lift the front pretty good already specially with the stock controllers with that unknown motor control profile. it will bend stuff over time too with hard hammering of the throttle.

Well, 1k peak is nothing for this kit as well. On 12S (48V) this kit will easily pull ~2.2kW when batts are fresh; and about 1600 when batteries are at 43 volts. Hammering the throttle on the 34-36T sprocket, at any battery level, at low speed is an instant bike flip if you hold the throttle for more than a fraction of a second. It runs very cool as well, I have attached a temp sensor to the side and so far the motor case hasn't reached 60F on a 20F ambient at 1800 watts sustained cruise commute at 30mph.

This kit offers something no GNG kit has: it is super compact and doesn't have all the extra crap hanging out exposed. For me riding around Wisconsin salty and sludgy roads in a Gen1 GNG wasn't the way to go: belts will corrode, salt will get everywhere... plus GNG customer service is utter rubbish... had to get Payal involved with a serious dispute just to get a "replacement" crank which they should've sent as a replacement for free. They will nickel and dime you every step of the way, asking to help their roommate with the expenses on the plane ticket... etc. GNG is NOT worth it, seriously....

In my 400 mile experience with this Cyclone kit, 12S LiPo won't lift the front wheel at any road speed on its own, and I doubt anything ebike-wise with just 2.5 kW will do as well, again, not it at any road speeds and definitively not without any help from the rider (leaning back, jerking the front up... etc) From a dead stop or very slow speed? Absolutely, it will flip the bike on command. Now, running it on 72V might pull a wheelie at speed, but seriously, why abuse the bike drivetrain? In my experience the bike is perfectly well mannered with a 30mph cruising speed and at 1500-1800 watt power draw.

G.

Gman, when you are going at ~30MPH, what gear ratios are you using? In other words:
How many teeth on the motor output?
Teeth on the ring driven by motor?
Teeth on the chain ring driving rear cog?
Teeth on rear cog?

 

[gman1971]

Another shunt source! $34.95 delivered Grin version
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/connectors/cycle-satiator-shunt-ca3/

Nice find! That should work.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Motor is stock cyclone freewheel, haven't count how many teeth... stock.

Running the HG-62-10 casette...http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/mtb1/drivetrain/cassettes/cs-hg62-10.html

My crank is triple chainring 44-44-32T.

I am cruising either on 8th gear (15t) for a 26-28mph speed when I am going slightly uphill, 9th gear (13t) at 30-34 mph on pure flats or 10th gear (11t) at 36-40 mph downhill.

Bike in 10th with the rear tire off the ground gear spins all the way up to 49 mph.

G.

Gman, when you are going at ~30MPH, what gear ratios are you using? In other words:
How many teeth on the motor output?
Teeth on the ring driven by motor?
Teeth on the chain ring driving rear cog?
Teeth on rear cog?

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

On the HG-62-10 casette...http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/mtb1/drivetrain/cassettes/cs-hg62-10.html
My crank is triple chainring 44-44-32T.

I am cruising either on 8th gear (15t) for a 26-28mph speed when I am going slightly uphill, 9th gear (13t) at 30-34 mph on pure flats or 10th gear (11t) at 36-40 mph downhill.

Bike in 10th with the rear tire off the ground gear spins all the way up to 49 mph.

G.

Gman, when you are going at ~30MPH, what gear ratios are you using? In other words:
How many teeth on the motor output?
Teeth on the ring driven by motor?
Teeth on the chain ring driving rear cog?
Teeth on rear cog?

Great, thanks. Ok, so the 32T front ring is driving the rear cogs, and one of the 44T rings is driving by the motor. How many teeth are on the motor output?

 

[gman1971]

Not always, I have two gears available on the chainring: The 32T is my towing, offroad gear, but I do most of my road riding on the 44T; the other 44T is the motor drivechain to the stock freewheel on the motor... I just counted and it appears to be a 13tooth freewheel at the motor .

G.

On the HG-62-10 casette...http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/mtb1/drivetrain/cassettes/cs-hg62-10.html
My crank is triple chainring 44-44-32T.

I am cruising either on 8th gear (15t) for a 26-28mph speed when I am going slightly uphill, 9th gear (13t) at 30-34 mph on pure flats or 10th gear (11t) at 36-40 mph downhill.

Bike in 10th with the rear tire off the ground gear spins all the way up to 49 mph.

G.

Gman, when you are going at ~30MPH, what gear ratios are you using? In other words:
How many teeth on the motor output?
Teeth on the ring driven by motor?
Teeth on the chain ring driving rear cog?
Teeth on rear cog?

Great, thanks. Ok, so the 32T front ring is driving the rear cogs, and one of the 44T rings is driving by the motor. How many teeth are on the motor output?

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

I am cruising either on 8th gear (15t) for a 26-28mph speed when I am going slightly uphill, 9th gear (13t) at 30-34 mph on pure flats or 10th gear (11t) at 36-40 mph downhill.

So for those speeds you listed above, are you on your 44T or 32T?

 

[gman1971]

I am cruising either on 8th gear (15t) for a 26-28mph speed when I am going slightly uphill, 9th gear (13t) at 30-34 mph on pure flats or 10th gear (11t) at 36-40 mph downhill.

So for those speeds you listed above, are you on your 44T or 32T?

The 44T-13T combo gives me the ~31mph cruise on flats with about 46 volts on the pack; but it will get up to 34 on a fresh lipo pack. and when pack gets down to 42 volts it will get up to 29 mph. BTW, this is running low pressure snow metal spike tires on it, so if you were to run this with road slicks I am sure it will probably ride faster

So put this in an easy to read way:

Motor teeth count : 13T
Drive chain Crank teeth count: 44T
Pedal chain Crank teeth count: 44T
Rear Sprocket : 13T

G

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

I am cruising either on 8th gear (15t) for a 26-28mph speed when I am going slightly uphill, 9th gear (13t) at 30-34 mph on pure flats or 10th gear (11t) at 36-40 mph downhill.

So for those speeds you listed above, are you on your 44T or 32T?

The 44T-13T combo gives me the ~31mph cruise on flats with about 46 volts on the pack; but it will get up to 34 on a fresh lipo pack. and when pack gets down to 42 volts it will get up to 29 mph. BTW, this is running low pressure snow metal spike tires on it, so if you were to run this with road slicks I am sure it will probably ride faster


G

This sounds very promising. Are you running 26" wheels? Is this all without pedaling?

 

[Warren]

So you are pedaling about 120 rpm cadence at 31 mph. That is pretty fast, but I find it just doable with power assist. 90-100 rpm is much easier to sustain.

But with you watts I'm guessing you aren't pedaling much?

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

The 44T-13T combo gives me the ~31mph cruise on flats with about 46 volts on the pack; but it will get up to 34 on a fresh lipo pack. and when pack gets down to 42 volts it will get up to 29 mph. BTW, this is running low pressure snow metal spike tires on it, so if you were to run this with road slicks I am sure it will probably ride faster

So put this in an easy to read way:

Motor teeth count : 13T
Drive chain Crank teeth count: 44T
Pedal chain Crank teeth count: 44T
Rear Sprocket : 13T

G

So if I'm looking at this correctly, this could be an ideal setup for direct drive to left hand side. If I'm targeting ~31MPH on the flats at ~46/48 volts, then I could just do a 1 to 1 ratio from motor to rear wheel. If I want to run at 72 volts and gear down to a target of 31MPH, I would need around a 1.5 reduction, so put a 20T ring on the back?

Can the rotation direction be easily reversed?

 

[gman1971]

So you are pedaling about 120 rpm cadence at 31 mph. That is pretty fast, but I find it just doable with power assist. 90-100 rpm is much easier to sustain.

Yes, agree, my cruising cadence is 90-95 on my road bike. On the ebike its all throttle tho, I just peg the "pedal to the metal" and I pedal along with it. But I don't pedal all the time during commutes either, mostly on a H.I.I.T. fashion for training: I'll go balls to the wall on the uphills until I am absolutely breathless (I wear full face helmet and snowmobile boots so you can imagine pedaling isn't easy anyways) and since I am trying to force my legs to pedal at higher cadences this is a great tool to teach my muscles to work in sync at 110+ for when I finally start riding my road bike this spring.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Yes, no pedal at all. 26" wheels with spiked tires, see my pictures. I run 120 cleats on front and wide Continental Ice Spikers 240 studs on the rear.

This sounds very promising. Are you running 26" wheels? Is this all without pedaling?

 

[gman1971]

Well, you could do that; but it will probably struggle with uphills since you are losing all the gears... if you were to DD it from the left side.

I think the motor rotation can be easily reversed by swapping two of the main power phase cables, but since these use the hall sensor stuff it might require changing the hall wiring too (all my sensorless RC motors direction reverse is achieved by swapping phase cables). The freewheel I am not sure how easy it is to reverse, but I am sure that is easily doable too. The motor will mount facing the left side, but it might not line up correctly with the bottom frame tube. Other than that it might work... why not use it with the gears? If you are going to DD why not get a hub motor?

G

The 44T-13T combo gives me the ~31mph cruise on flats with about 46 volts on the pack; but it will get up to 34 on a fresh lipo pack. and when pack gets down to 42 volts it will get up to 29 mph. BTW, this is running low pressure snow metal spike tires on it, so if you were to run this with road slicks I am sure it will probably ride faster

So put this in an easy to read way:

Motor teeth count : 13T
Drive chain Crank teeth count: 44T
Pedal chain Crank teeth count: 44T
Rear Sprocket : 13T

G

So if I'm looking at this correctly, this could be an ideal setup for direct drive to left hand side. If I'm targeting ~31MPH on the flats at ~46/48 volts, then I could just do a 1 to 1 ratio from motor to rear wheel. If I want to run at 72 volts and gear down to a target of 31MPH, I would need around a 1.5 reduction, so put a 20T ring on the back?

Can the rotation direction be easily reversed?

 

[gman1971]

But with you watts I'm guessing you aren't pedaling much?

I am pedaling as hard as I can, but at 1800 watt motor power my input doesn't mean much...

G.

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

Valid points.

I want to avoid the unsprung mass of a hub motor.

So you think running at 72volts but geared down to top speed of 30MPH, this motor would not have enough torque to climb hills? I do have some serious off-road hills, with short sections of around 30%. I'm guessing geared down to 25MPH still wouldn't be enough?

i'm also thinking it would be quieter to direct drive to the rear wheel. On my previous mid-drive builds, I think a lot noise comes from the freewheel spinning on the front chain ring. I was running a White Industries freewheel. Maybe they are louder than others.

 

[gman1971]

30% is pretty steep; perhaps I would recommend you doing a normal right side install and use a three chainring setup like what I have? I do a lot of uphill towing on my bike with 100lbs of cargo on the snow during my family weekend adventures; now, I have to admit that the motor struggles in certain passages of the trail even with a 32T chainring and a 36T rear cog... so I would say that a direct drive left side might not be able to deliver the performance you seek for your application.

On 72 volts on a steep uphill you are going to have a MASSIVE amount of torque transfered over the chain, the internal motor planetary assembly and the rear sprocket, all without any way to lever that torque; and chances are that things could snap rather fast... again, I would advise to go from high motor RPM to high torque at the wheel in a progressive manner, not the other way around...

Most of the noise on mine comes from the motor, my experience has told me that excesive chain noise was due to chains not being tensioned/lined up properly (and lubed to some extent) The motor in this kit is fairly silent tho, doesn't sound like angry hornets but again, thats running at 48V; if you run this motor at 72V I am sure it is going to sound like an F1 during a qualifying lap...

G.

Valid points.

I want to avoid the unsprung mass of a hub motor.

So you think running at 72volts but geared down to top speed of 30MPH, this motor would not have enough torque to climb hills? I do have some serious off-road hills, with short sections of around 30%. I'm guessing geared down to 25MPH still wouldn't be enough?

i'm also thinking it would be quieter to direct drive to the rear wheel. On my previous mid-drive builds, I think a lot noise comes from the freewheel spinning on the front chain ring. I was running a White Industries freewheel. Maybe they are louder than others.

 

[Warren]

"I am pedaling as hard as I can, but at 1800 watt motor power my input doesn't mean much..."

Yeah. I guess an upright MTB, with studded knobbies is pretty inefficient compared to a laid back recumbent with high pressure street slicks.