new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[tomjasz]

Hey this is tame...and us snow bound folks have time to write. You can hardy get a sentence out of us when the riding weather is primo!

 

[Mikebike]

Had a chance to test the kit off the bike and connected to the battery. I'm happy to report that all is working well.
I like the full throttle grip with built in voltage display and on/off switch at thumb position.
I got a nasty spark when clipping the battery power connector to the controller power connector to power up the system. Didn't like that at all. Read about these (http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/10/29/xt60-xt90-with-spark-arrestors-why-you-should-make-the-switch/).
Do they work well?

 

[gman1971]

Hey this is tame...and us snow bound folks have time to write. You can hardy get a sentence out of us when the riding weather is primo!

True that... once spring rolls I'll be off the grid!

Have you gotten he kit to work?

G.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Mikebike,

do not construe the words "Spark Arrestor" to mean spark eliminator. They still will spark but the spark is trapped in the plastic walls when you make contact with both poles.

It seem this ebay seller can beat most others for XT-90's on and the item ships free.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291454334743?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[emaayan]

Em3ev also uses precharge

 

[markz]

DingusMcGee - Could be fakes, very easy to fake that product.

 

[DingusMcGee]

markz,

DingusMcGee - Could be fakes, very easy to fake that product.

Could you tell me whose design the Spark Arrestor XT-90's is and does Luna Cycle sell the genuine version if it exists?

yes, they could be genuine fakes but having both I know they work equally as good as the genuine?from Hobby King. Why pay more.

In others words why the "H" should I pay your buddies more for these when they buy from the same junk pile as I and then charge 3.5 x the junk pile price? Has the Rabi made theirs Kosher?

FYI: I just checked my yesterday's receipt of a triangle Battery pack from Luna Cycle and find the XT-90's on it does not have the Registered Trade Mark symbol nor the words "Anlilxx" . They must be fakes..... So much for stories from electric-fatbike.com

Busted!

 

[markz]

Could you tell me whose design the Spark Arrestor XT-90's is and does Luna Cycle sell the genuine version if it exists?

I do not know who's design it is, but with any reputable online retailer you can have confidence that they are genuine pieces.
I am sure Luna Cycle would sell genuine products, they seem to be to be a solid reputable company.

In others words why the "H" should I pay your buddies more for these when they buy from the same junk pile as I and then charge 3.5 x the junk pile price? Has the Rabi made theirs Kosher?

FYI: I just checked my yesterday's receipt of a triangle Battery pack from Luna Cycle and find the XT-90's on it does not have the Registered Trade Mark symbol nor the words "Anlilxx" . They must be fakes..... So much for stories from electric-fatbike.com

Well if you want them right away, and you are in North America you will get them right away. If not, I find ebay products from China can take 1 to 2 months easily! Really whats a few extra bucks, you are supporting American business, not some chinese hack taking away from North American commerce. I dont know about the TM symbol, nor would I know how to tell if they were cheap junk copy fakes, or good quality fakes. I read about people all the time buying good quality Mean Wells copies.

 

[Mikebike]

Thanks for the tips on the spark arrestors and the idea of the precharge for dealing with the power connection spark.
Back to the kit installation itself.
I installed the motor on my bike. I have a 68mm bottom bracket and purchased the specific kit for that size bottom bracket. Installation was straight forward. I had to purchase a square taper bottom bracket tool and a crank removal tool to do the job. I was able to reuse my existing pedals with the new cranks.
There were two bearings on the bottom bracket included in my kit. I only needed one bearing for my bottom bracket install. I would have needed the second bearing if my bottom bracket was a little wider.
I also test fitted the new cranks on the bottom bracket spindles and I have good clearance on both sides of the motor.
So, on to the dual chainring. My kit came with 2-44 tooth chainrings. The outside chainring for the motor chain and the inside for the chain going to the back wheel gears.
Are these chainrings the same/do both these chainrings use the same type of chain? The inner chainring to the back wheels appears to have very slightly smaller tooth/cupped area compared to the outer? Not sure on that though.
I plan on going to the store this weekend to get a kmc bmx chain for the motor chainring. I will need to buy a chain breaker tool also.
Anybody have issues with their existing chain working with the inner chainring?

 

[DingusMcGee]

Markz,

you are supporting American business, not some chinese hack taking away from North American commerce

Your naive idea of supporting American Business misses at least one pertinent fact. They buy their wares cheaply from some "Chinese hack" [your words] and try to charge me an exorbitant price. With the likes of ebay it is easy to circumvent such overcharging by buying from these same hacks. I do not owe American Businessmen a living nor in any rational economic sense should I support any more middle men than are necessary to the achieve the level of expediency I want -- Pure Adam Smith Economics. In a sense I am in business for myself when I build an ebike or whatever and I would think that I would have [even from you ] the self same sovereignty as the sovereignty you grant to American Businesses to choose their suppliers as they please. Otherwise your line of "support American Business" is pure Bullshite and perhaps even a form of guilt projection due to your own insecurity regarding who you buy from. Or maybe you just can not see your inconsistencies?

Recently I wanted some of those screw on rubble nipples that cover toggle switches to keep the moisture out. NAPPA at $10.47 each. From Ebay China a dozen came in 2 weeks for $9.99 with free shipping and no sales tax. And the bottom of the NAPPA carton said, "Made in China."

And may I ask, "What Chinese hack made your ebike motor?"

 

[DingusMcGee]

Mikebike,

There were two bearings on the bottom bracket included in my kit. I only needed one bearing for my bottom bracket install. I would have needed the second bearing if my bottom bracket was a little wider.

What holds up the other side of the axle? Maybe something going on here I cannot immagine?

 

[markz]

Thats just it huh, Napa a known entity, china an unknown, you just might get the lead tainted batch and no one would care.
Burn down your house poison your kid, good luck in China courts!

A dozen, might work, might not work. Like going to Crapo-Rama and buying their merchandise, their can openers work for about a week. Sure they are $1, but you can spend $5 and have it last forever.

I dont care what you do.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Markz,

you are going to have to present more than these strawman arguments and speculations,[ maybe I will get lead poisoning], to look any more reasonable than lantice13, who has zero hands on experience with the C3000, when he talks about frame flexing in the C-3000

I dont care what you do.

Then why have you been advising/suggesting me to buy American?

 

[tomjasz]

jeez, don't smear yer lipstick...it was a useful thread.

 

[tomjasz]

Hey this is tame...and us snow bound folks have time to write. You can hardy get a sentence out of us when the riding weather is primo!

True that... once spring rolls I'll be off the grid!

Have you gotten he kit to work?

G.

Nah ordered a new frame and another BBSHD. Cyclone to the back of the line again. Rear DD hub and mid-drive fat bikes for snow riding first..

 

[robocam]

Has anyone measured the cadence/rpm of the Cyclone 3000W at 48 or 52V? With a 48T on the crank, does it spin faster than the average person can pedal?

What's the distance between the center of the crankset and the motor output sprocket? I'm trying to determine the largest chainring that will fit before the chainring hits the motor sprocket.

I understand that the motor sprocket is adjustable via a setscrew. Is the output shaft long enough for the sprocket to be adjusted to operate with a chainring bolted to the side of the 48T chainring (not using a spacer)? That's the only way I can think of for mounting a larger chainring to the crankset. For example, if I wanted to mount a 60T chainring to the Cyclone crankset, I would attach it directly to the stock 48T chainring (not using it of course). I would then have to adjust the motor sprocket out slightly, about the width of the 48T chainring. Is the shaft long enough to accommodate this adjustment?

 

[gman1971]

Has anyone measured the cadence/rpm of the Cyclone 3000W at 48 or 52V? With a 48T on the crank, does it spin faster than the average person can pedal?

What's the distance between the center of the crankset and the motor output sprocket? I'm trying to determine the largest chainring that will fit before the chainring hits the motor sprocket.

I understand that the motor sprocket is adjustable via a setscrew. Is the output shaft long enough for the sprocket to be adjusted to operate with a chainring bolted to the side of the 48T chainring (not using a spacer)? That's the only way I can think of for mounting a larger chainring to the crankset. For example, if I wanted to mount a 60T chainring to the Cyclone crankset, I would attach it directly to the stock 48T chainring (not using it of course). I would then have to adjust the motor sprocket out slightly, about the width of the 48T chainring. Is the shaft long enough to accommodate this adjustment?

With the supplied 44-44T crank mine was running at 115-120 cadence on 48V 12S LiPo, average top speed of around 32 mph.

There is more than enough to run a 60T chainring, but I don't think you really need to bolt a 60T chainring in there, personally I would go with a smaller drivechain chainring. In fact, I got today my new 44T-48T (drive chain, bike chain) and the difference is noticeable. Now I can reach top speed in 8th gear (15T), so that leaves the 13T and 11T pinions only used for going downhill, and with bike off the ground on the 11T the top speed I read is 58mph, so if you can push enough torque out of this guy it will probably do 60 mph. Cyclone sells a 36T drivechain chainrings, so you could use a 36T-48T crank which should will give you a much more compact crankset than a 60T which might also require some modification to the derailleur... etc...

With the 44/48 motor overdrive the cadence has gone up to 130 when cruising in 8th gear, but not that I really care when I am going to work with 3 layers of coats and snowmobile boots...

G.

 

[gman1971]

Hey this is tame...and us snow bound folks have time to write. You can hardy get a sentence out of us when the riding weather is primo!

True that... once spring rolls I'll be off the grid!

Have you gotten he kit to work?

G.

Nah ordered a new frame and another BBSHD. Cyclone to the back of the line again. Rear DD hub and mid-drive fat bikes for snow riding first..

Shame, kit is working really well... if you stop by Madison drop me a PM so we can meet.

G.

 

[tomjasz]

No shame, just a matter of time and the right bike. Hopefully we'll be there in the spring visiting. Now that the Vespa's are gone I don't visit as often, but a nephew just bought a country home so a spring visit is a definite! We'll probably bring the leisure bikes 20mpg BBS01's. Still my favorite bike path motor.

 

[robocam]

Please ignore this post. Somehow I accidentally quoted myself.

 

[robocam]

44T-44T? This page lists it with a 44T-48T.

http://lunacycle.com/motors/mid-drive-kits/cyclone-mid-drive/cyclone-mid-drive-3000-watt-planetary/

So with your new 44T-48T, your motor is driving the 44T while the 48T is driving your rear cassette?

Are you referring to the motor-to-crankset chain as the drive chain and the crankset-to-rear as the bike chain? If so, going with a smaller drive chain chainring will increase the cadence.

If I use a 36T-48T, the cadence won't be affected. I'm not trying to increase the gear ratio. I'm trying to make it so that I can pedal with the motor while it is spinning as fast as it can for maximum efficiency. That's why I want to increase the size of the drive chain chainring.

Basically, I want to find out what chainring I need in the crankset to make the maximum crankset rpm around 85 or whatever maximum cadence I'm comfortable with for extended periods of time.

With the supplied 44-44T crank mine was running at 115-120 cadence on 48V 12S LiPo, average top speed of around 32 mph.

There is more than enough to run a 60T chainring, but I don't think you really need to bolt a 60T chainring in there, personally I would go with a smaller drivechain chainring. In fact, I got today my new 44T-48T (drive chain, bike chain) and the difference is noticeable. Now I can reach top speed in 8th gear (15T), so that leaves the 13T and 11T pinions only used for going downhill, and with bike off the ground on the 11T the top speed I read is 58mph, so if you can push enough torque out of this guy it will probably do 60 mph. Cyclone sells a 36T drivechain chainrings, so you could use a 36T-48T crank which should will give you a much more compact crankset than a 60T which might also require some modification to the derailleur... etc...

With the 44/48 motor overdrive the cadence has gone up to 130 when cruising in 8th gear, but not that I really care when I am going to work with 3 layers of coats and snowmobile boots...

G.

 

[gman1971]

No shame, just a matter of time and the right bike. Hopefully we'll be there in the spring visiting. Now that the Vespa's are gone I don't visit as often, but a nephew just bought a country home so a spring visit is a definite! We'll probably bring the leisure bikes 20mpg BBS01's. Still my favorite bike path motor.

True and you should know I was really tempted to get the BBSHD... but the triple chainring for me tipped the scale in favor of the Cyclone. I think if you come by and you have a chance to try it you'll like it a lot... is superquiet and pretty powerful.

Today I resurrected the GNG Gen2 kit and installed it on my wife's bike. The clutch was fixed a while ago using a drill press and some metal plates to sandwich around the rollers... and it works almost like new again. Got it installed on my wife's 29er hardtail, coupled with another Cyclone custom made 44-48-32T three chainring crank. After we finished the install my son and I went for a drag race and the GNG gave the Cyclone a good run for its money... but in the end the Cyclone beat the GNG in top speed; acceleration was pretty close, but considering that my wife's bike is 15 pounds lighter than mine and my son is 100 lbs lighter than me (he weights 56 lbs, and I weight 169 lbs) I was peaking 2200 watts during acceleration, and I know from when I had the GNG that it was probably pulling ~1100 watts... Unfortunately my son is not tall enough yet to swap bikes and see how bad the Cyclone would've destroyed the GNG carrying 100lbs less of rider.

So as of today I officially have three working eBikes... woohoo

Once the GNG Gen2 clutch fails again I'll probably get another 3000W Cyclone motor/controller and install that.

G.

 

[cwah]

What is the 3 chaining for?

 

[gman1971]

Kit comes with a 44-44T, not with a 44-48T... I also had already 44-44-32T I was using with my GNG (purchased it directly from Cyclone Taiwan)

Yes, motor drives the 44T and the 48T (or 32 for towing) drives the rear cassette.

Drive chain is what goes from motor to crank.
Bike chain is what goes from crank to cassette.

I am trying to reduce stress and wear on the entire bike drivetrain and cruise around at top speed with the 15T cog (instead of 13T or 11T which eat chains); that's why I have overdriven it.

However, if you want the opposite then get a 48T drivechain and a 38T bikechain crank. That will give you a ~25% underdrive (but beware that can probably eat chains like "no mañana" if you cruise in 11 or 13T with full throttle.)

So if my bike was doing 115 cadence on 48V, and you take 25% off and that leaves it with about 86 RPM cadence at max speed... much easier to deal with that.

Parts for the cyclone cranks can be found here:

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-chainwheel.htm

G.

Supplied 44T-44T? This page lists it with a 44T-48T.

http://lunacycle.com/motors/mid-drive-kits/cyclone-mid-drive/cyclone-mid-drive-3000-watt-planetary/

So with your new 44T-48T, your motor is driving the 44T while the 48T is driving your rear cassette?

Are you referring to the motor-to-crankset chain as the drive chain and the crankset-to-rear as the bike chain? If so, going with a smaller drive chain chainring will increase the cadence, which is the opposite of what I'm trying to do. If I use a 36T-48T, it still won't help lower the cadence. I'm not trying to increase the gear ratio. I'm trying to make it so that I can pedal with the motor while it is spinning as fast as it can for maximum efficiency. That's why I want to increase the size of the drive chain chainring.

Basically, I want to find out what chainring I need in the crankset to make the maximum crankset rpm around 85 or whatever maximum cadence I'm comfortable with for extended periods of time. Then I want to see if it will fit. If it fits, then I will consider buying it.

With the supplied 44-44T crank mine was running at 115-120 cadence on 48V 12S LiPo, average top speed of around 32 mph.

There is more than enough to run a 60T chainring, but I don't think you really need to bolt a 60T chainring in there, personally I would go with a smaller drivechain chainring. In fact, I got today my new 44T-48T (drive chain, bike chain) and the difference is noticeable. Now I can reach top speed in 8th gear (15T), so that leaves the 13T and 11T pinions only used for going downhill, and with bike off the ground on the 11T the top speed I read is 58mph, so if you can push enough torque out of this guy it will probably do 60 mph. Cyclone sells a 36T drivechain chainrings, so you could use a 36T-48T crank which should will give you a much more compact crankset than a 60T which might also require some modification to the derailleur... etc...

With the 44/48 motor overdrive the cadence has gone up to 130 when cruising in 8th gear, but not that I really care when I am going to work with 3 layers of coats and snowmobile boots...

G.

 

[gman1971]

What is the 3 chaining for?

The 32T chainring I use for towing heavy loads up hills and rough terrain... and my 48T chainring is used mostly for driving on the road with nothing but the rider.

G.