new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[RageNR]

Spoken like a true "dingus". i kid, I KID! :lol: :lol: :lol:

But yeah, quiet is relative. YOU do not want to hear it, or you do not want OTHERS to be able to hear it? I imagine the latter.
Gonna take a bunch of custom work to quiet it down. Dingus lined out a few options for you.

 

[gman1971]

Spoken like a true "dingus". i kid, I KID! :lol: :lol: :lol:

But yeah, quiet is relative. YOU do not want to hear it, or you do not want OTHERS to be able to hear it? I imagine the latter.
Gonna take a bunch of custom work to quiet it down. Dingus lined out a few options for you.

I would say that the trike has quiet down in the 1000 miles it has racked so far, it is not silent, but it has quiet down enough that it doesn't sound like an F-1 like in that video anymore. The same happened to my eBike, which is now pretty silent for bystanders...

Also remember that the C3000W motor is going to be noisy when you're going all out, but if you stay at say, 50% throttle the noise is barely audible. The chain noise is inevitable with a chain mid drive, unless you completely enclose the chain in some sort of case, or as Dingus suggested, you go belt drive. Which might help dampen the gear noise as well... since a tight chain is a perfect vibration transmission medium. However, even if you managed to muff all the motor noises and chain noises, then at high speed you have the wind noise as well.

G.

 

[le15otl]

The motor itself when you run it on the ground is dead quiet. But it having contact with the bike amplifies the sound as well as chain movement etc. Lubrication helps a lot.
At high speed I can barely hear the motor over the sound of the wind

 

[gman1971]

The motor itself when you run it on the ground is dead quiet. But it having contact with the bike amplifies the sound as well as chain movement etc. Lubrication helps a lot.
At high speed I can barely hear the motor over the sound of the wind

Same here at speed all you hear is the wind noise.

BTW, could you elaborate in the "lubrication helps a lot" you mean taking it apart and adding grease?

I also thought that maybe the 3D printed plastic motor mount shown here could help in the noise matter?

Any thoughts on that?

G.

 

[RageNR]

I am wondering if using a thin cork or gasket type material between the bracket and mounting points on the motor would dampen the vibration noises any.

 

[gman1971]

I am wondering if using a thin cork or gasket type material between the bracket and mounting points on the motor would dampen the vibration noises any.

Cork not so sure, but maybe urethane?

G.

 

[RageNR]

Cork not so sure, but maybe urethane?

I would think that keeping the dampening material as thin as possible would be the best idea.
If you make the distance from the mounting plate and mounting point on the motor too far apart, this could cause stability issues.
Since the Cyclone already has problems with mounting stability, this may not work out too well. Thin urethane might work ok.

Cork is strong when compressed. Not the most ideal material, mostly just thinking aloud.
Just my $.02

 

[robocam]

If you're after super quiet, you should look into a hotrodded BBSHD.

http://www.electricbike.com/project-x-building-the-baddest-and-fastest-3000w-bbshd-ebike-ever/

Stability isn't really the issue. The problem with the Cyclone's stock mounts is that they permanently deform, so the goal of reinforcement is the prevention of permanent deformation. Using rubber would be the best way to dampen the noise (this is what they use in engine mounts and stabilizer bar mounts in cars). Urethane is typically used in high performance vehicles because it doesn't deform nearly as much as rubber but since it's much stiffer than rubber, it transmits much more noise. If you can figure out some way to put rubber between the Cyclone and the bike frame, that would solve your problem, but I feel like there's no easy way to do it. How are you going to isolate the Cyclone from the bottom bracket?

I really don't think the Cyclone is that noisy though. People don't even realize I have a motor on my bike. Like Gman said, it's quiet at mid throttle. You should just try it. I think you'll just get used to it and leave it alone =)

Cork not so sure, but maybe urethane?

I would think that keeping the dampening material as thin as possible would be the best idea.
If you make the distance from the mounting plate and mounting point on the motor too far apart, this could cause stability issues.
Since the Cyclone already has problems with mounting stability, this may not work out too well. Thin urethane might work ok.

Cork is strong when compressed. Not the most ideal material, mostly just thinking aloud.
Just my $.02

 

[le15otl]

The motor itself when you run it on the ground is dead quiet. But it having contact with the bike amplifies the sound as well as chain movement etc. Lubrication helps a lot.
At high speed I can barely hear the motor over the sound of the wind

Same here at speed all you hear is the wind noise.

BTW, could you elaborate in the "lubrication helps a lot" you mean taking it apart and adding grease?

I also thought that maybe the 3D printed plastic motor mount shown here could help in the noise matter?

Any thoughts on that?

G.

I meant lubricating the chain to reduce rattling sound, yeah but also after taking off the front cover (and presumably shifting the grease in the nylon gears around) it seemed to make less of a whiny sound. I found the high-pitch noise most annoying so was glad that was reduced.


That's a good idea I think it probably would help. I guess you mean between the down tube and the motor? If not some plastic at that point could help dampen it too.

 

[DingusMcGee]

robocam,

I looked at

Project X: Building the Fastest BBSHD EBike Ever

Note a line using the wording we think

We think that the sine wave controller helps silent it down.

We also find the words:

.and boy was I stupid.

And I might question, "And how long are you [Hicks & group] going to be stupid?" Eric Hicks and group were the harbingers of what we do. I appreciate. But can you imagine trying to build a wooden a house without using a tape measure? In the same sense these guys are trying to build a quiet ebike without using a sound decibel measuring device. If they had used a sound meter they would not had to have used the words, "...we think..." but quantitatively they could have said something like, "...the Adappto Mini -E Controller reduced the sound only one decibel". They also mention," Of course being the owner of Luna Cycle has its perks. " Perks or not they could have afforded and used a sound meter and then we all would have a better idea how much specific component additions and changes contribute to ebike sound reduction.

And they could have located where the noise comes from!!!

Quantities mean something. Do you count your $$$$$$?

We have no idea just how quiet this ebike is without knowing decibels.

http://www.alliedelec.com/flir-commercial-systems-inc-extech-division-407730/70117351/?mkwid=sabYU23qn&pcrid=30980760979&gclid=CjwKEAjwp-S6BRDj4Z7z2IWUhG8SJAAbqbF3YSEHtW4L-dv-fAiYawrkLh26d35UXOMAazoklKAgwhoC6OHw_wcB

$89.00

 

[RageNR]

Well to be fair, not all noises are equal.
For instance: A high pitched "whiny" noise may be perceived as louder and more annoying than a low pitched sound which actually is louder.
I do agree that having quantifiable data in the form of db readings is a better approach. At least you have a basis for your claims. However, the hard data may not be applicable to everyone in the same way.
Just like how older people have a hard time hearing higher pitched noises, something may be super annoying to you and me, but another person may not notice it at all.

The main point here is, everyone is different. We all perceive the would around us in our own way.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Just like how older people have a hard time hearing higher pitched noises

What?...what did you say?...speak up, you young whippersnapper! (*sips his whiskey and apple-juice...yells out "HEY, you kids get offa my lawn!")..."dont make me get outta this rocking chair and kick your skinny ass!" ...(*coughs repeatedly, and has a hard time breathing. Clutches chest, and grits teeth in anticipation of the next stroke)

 

[RageNR]

That's a good idea I think it probably would help. I guess you mean between the down tube and the motor? If not some plastic at that point could help dampen it too.

If your motor is physically resting against the frame, then putting a dampening material between the two should make a difference.
My point was to add a grommet of sorts between the brackets and the motor. Where the 2 bolts attach the bracket to the motor, pull those out and add something behind the bracket and on top of holes on the motor where the bolts go through.
But don't add too much. If your grommet is thick, it could allow more flex of the BB brackets.
Not sure how much noise that will cut out, but every little bit adds up if you are going for quiet. You'll just have to experiment.

What?...what did you say?...speak up, you young whippersnapper!

Oh no, not you too... SOMEONE GRAB THE EAR TRUMPET AND JAR OF VASELINE!!!
Lookin a lil thin up top my friend. :lol:

 

[DingusMcGee]

a dampening material between the two should make a difference.

To the point: You say "should" but with a decibel meter speculation is not the outcome. I would rather hear "does"

And eliminating that," something [which] may be super annoying to you and me", will easily be determined and confirmed with deaf ears and the meter.

Do as I say: I sprang for the decibel meter and soon will determine if what you have said has any likelihood of being correct!

 

[RageNR]

To the point: You say "should" but with a decibel meter speculation is not the outcome. I would rather hear "does"
And eliminating that," something [which] may be super annoying to you and me", will easily be determined and confirmed with deaf ears and the meter.

Not sure if you misunderstood my point.
If someone is wanting to quiet a noise THEY hear, the amount of db on the meter may have no relevance.
The user complaining about the "noise" may hear it, but another individual may not. It doesn't matter how many db the "noise' is emitting. Two individuals, two different observations of the same event.

There is also the phenomenon that is vibration. Technically speaking, all sounds are vibrations. But stick with me for a moment...
What I am alluring to is the vibrations felt by the rider. The person on the bike is physically connected to the object emitting the noise.
The vibrations from the motor are transferred to the mounting brackets, which are connected to the frame, which is connected to the saddle ON which thy ass is firmly planted, and the ass-bone is connected to the ear-bone.
Vibrations are heard through mechanical transfer.
THAT type of noise will not be detected by a db meter. And neither will the person you just rode past, be able to hear what you do.

Again, a more scientifical approach is warranted, but keep in mind THAT data is not indicative to ALL situations. YMMV

 

[DingusMcGee]

RageNR,

If you eliminate a sound to some low amount it is likely gone as being noisy. You seem to confusing annoying little noises which to the oddball folks you talk about annoy them compared with actual measurable noise. You may never satisfy such an ebike owner -- maybe they had a hash childhood and they amplify such low input?

I am not trying to satisfy these oddballs.

THAT type of noise will not be detected by a db met

er.

Put an accelerometer on you seat and get some data. Next do a power band plot from the data to find frequency Hz of the high power points. Then move the accelerometer to what you think is source and measure frequency at that place and see if has the right Hz to cause such forced vibration. I think this disturbance is usually called vibration as opposed to sound. I suspect these vibrations [of metal] do make sounds [rattle the air] that are inaudible to most ears and maybe as you say to the ranges of most decibel meters.

 

[RageNR]

I suspect these vibrations [of metal] do make sounds [rattle the air] that are inaudible to most ears and maybe as you say to the ranges of most decibel meters.

Right. That's all I was trying to get across. The db meter would not be the "end all" of the scientific analysis on the matter. So we both agree.
I guess you could press the db meter up against the seat. But then your shiny new sound ANALyzer will reek of yesternights mishap, courtesy of TacoBell. :lol: :lol: :lol:
That, my friend, is TEH POWAH UV SYUNCE!

 

[juanfeli]

I’ve been busy playing with a small programmable controller and a CA3. Now I have an efficient and civilized Cyclone 3000 but I miss a lot the original wild setup.

The noise of this kit is the less of my concerns. Mine is not as loud as G trike. Also I can’t notice a vibration problem. Probably because I cut a piece of tire to hold the motor against the frame from the begining.

I like it a lot to ride it gearless and is a lot quieter.

In order from quieter to loudest setup that I’ve tried: Single speed, 1x10 and 1x10 with narrowide chainring. None of the noise of the three setups bothers me.

It would be nice to see how a FOC or sina wave controller improves its sound or performance.

[#img#]PequeFile_000.jpg[/img##]

 

[robocam]

The grommet idea is a good one if you can figure out how to implement it. You would need to make sure there is no metal-to-metal contact at the grommets. I don't think flex would become much of an issue because the motor can move quite a bit and still work just fine. When my mount deformed, my issue was the crank arm hitting the motor. The mid drive still worked just fine.

If your motor is physically resting against the frame, then putting a dampening material between the two should make a difference.
My point was to add a grommet of sorts between the brackets and the motor. Where the 2 bolts attach the bracket to the motor, pull those out and add something behind the bracket and on top of holes on the motor where the bolts go through.
But don't add too much. If your grommet is thick, it could allow more flex of the BB brackets.
Not sure how much noise that will cut out, but every little bit adds up if you are going for quiet. You'll just have to experiment...

 

[robocam]

I completely agree. The quality of the sound is far more important. A sound might get quieter, but its characteristics could make it far more annoying. On the flipside, there may be no difference in SPL readings, but the tone could be completely different. Different frequencies are perceived differently by the human ear, so unless you have a frequency vs. SPL plot and the knowledge to interpret it, SPL numbers aren't very useful. This is why SPL numbers aren't very useful in choosing a quiet CPU cooler. The way the setup actually sounds matters more. This is also why loudspeaker specifications are practically meaningless, and probably the main reason why Bose doesn't publish specifications for most of their products. The best way to choose is to experience it yourself.

Well to be fair, not all noises are equal.
For instance: A high pitched "whiny" noise may be perceived as louder and more annoying than a low pitched sound which actually is louder.
I do agree that having quantifiable data in the form of db readings is a better approach. At least you have a basis for your claims. However, the hard data may not be applicable to everyone in the same way.
Just like how older people have a hard time hearing higher pitched noises, something may be super annoying to you and me, but another person may not notice it at all.

The main point here is, everyone is different. We all perceive the would around us in our own way.

 

[robocam]

I've decided not to limit anything except for maybe speed. When I'm riding, I just use the 3-speed switch (only sometimes when I want to make sure I don't go too fast when I'm towing the kids). The Cyclone is too much fun to be tamed =)

I wonder if a sine wave controller would be noticeably less efficient. But since the noise is coming from the gears, I don't think any reduction in motor noise would make much of a difference. The motor is already very quiet.

To anyone reading this out of context, the Cyclone is not loud at all. We're just discussing ways to make it super silent.

I’ve been busy playing with a small programmable controller and a CA3. Now I have an efficient and civilized Cyclone 3000 but I miss a lot the original wild setup.

The noise of this kit is the less of my concerns. Mine is not as laud as G trike. Also I can’t notice a vibration problem. Probably because I cut a piece of tire to hold the motor against the frame from the begining.

I like it a lot to ride it gearless and is a lot quieter.

In order from quieter to loudest setup that I’ve tried: Single speed, 1x10 and 1x10 with narrowide chainring. None of the noise of the three setups bothers me.

It would be nice to see how a FOC or sina wave controller improves its sound or performance.

[#img#]PequeFile_000.jpg[/img##]

 

[le15otl]

I've decided not to limit anything except for maybe speed. When I'm riding, I just use the 3-speed switch (only sometimes when I want to make sure I don't go too fast when I'm towing the kids). The Cyclone is too much fun to be tamed =)

I wonder if a sine wave controller would be noticeably less efficient. But since the noise is coming from the gears, I don't think any reduction in motor noise would make much of a difference. The motor is already very quiet.

To anyone reading this out of context, the Cyclone is not loud at all. We're just discussing ways to make it super silent.

[/quote]

One of the main benefits of a sine wave controller is actually better efficiency. If I remember right with a standard 3 phase controller highest efficiency can't exceed ~90% but with a true sine wave it can 'theoretically' have 100% efficiency. Which obviously isn't going to happen but still

About noise I also think it's more important about the frequency of it than the db. The lower pitched sound I don't mind at all it's the high pitched that is annoyig

 

[juanfeli]

I agree but I've been looking for a free maintenace setup.

I've decided not to limit anything except for maybe speed. When I'm riding, I just use the 3-speed switch (only sometimes when I want to make sure I don't go too fast when I'm towing the kids). The Cyclone is too much fun to be tamed =)

I wonder if a sine wave controller would be noticeably less efficient. But since the noise is coming from the gears, I don't think any reduction in motor noise would make much of a difference. The motor is already very quiet.

To anyone reading this out of context, the Cyclone is not loud at all. We're just discussing ways to make it super silent.

 

[gman1971]

Just like how older people have a hard time hearing higher pitched noises

What?...what did you say?...speak up, you young whippersnapper! (*sips his whiskey and apple-juice...yells out "HEY, you kids get offa my lawn!")..."dont make me get outta this rocking chair and kick your skinny ass!" ...(*coughs repeatedly, and has a hard time breathing. Clutches chest, and grits teeth in anticipation of the next stroke)

LMAO...

hahaha...

 

[juanfeli]

Another big noticeable difference is to run motors almost silent.

One of the main benefits of a sine wave controller is actually better efficiency....