new eZip motor

[DrkAngel]

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... 250 pages of ...

Run with the watt meter in line to see exactly how many watts you use.
Motors rated watts-amps are at near top speed, when geared optimally.
Motors can use much more than their rated watts-amps at lower, less efficient, speeds.

"1600w" motor has potential to be true 1600w.
Brush motors can be as high as 80% efficient,
Brushless motors can be as high as 90% efficient,
but seldom that efficient at "rated"!
So I mathed at the highest possible watt output, not what they are actually capable of!

I still have the power meter and is not hooked up.

I have the extra bullets to make it happen.

I am expecting the 1,800W 26 amp ? brushless motor to put out at least 1,200W @ 40V on the meter.

The reason for this is because the last time I looked at the meter was when it was hooked up to the 500W 26" rear e bikeling motor.
It was a 20 mph motor with no where even close to the acceleration as the 1,800W rated brushless motor but saw between 600 and 700W on the meter. My guess is about 1,200W easily with the same 40V input. I base my guess on seat of the pants G force acceleration. Not any formula or specs. on a computer screen or wattage or amp sticker on the motor.


LC. out.

Meter shows battery input watts not motor output watts!
Ebikeling motor was likely accelerating when you saw 700w, possibly 350-400w motor output at slower less efficient speed, but settled into a more efficient 500w motor output when you attained cruising speed and saw "600w".

 

[tomjasz]

I dont know about JP's welder, he used to be active, maybe still is but I dont frequent battery thread much. Good design.
Yeah so becoming a pro searcher.

I have two and for occasional builds and repairs, it's fine. But due to a pacemaker, it's been suggested I stop using them. SUNNKO SUCKS HUGE!! Mine died on the first welds. A nightmare and a waste of money!

 

[latecurtis]

Meter shows battery input watts not motor output watts!
Ebikeling motor was likely accelerating when you saw 700w, possibly 350-400w motor output at slower less efficient speed, but settled into a more efficient 500w motor output when you attained cruising speed and saw "600w".

Yes. That is about right. 36V * 22A = 792. I know it spiked when accelerating and was around 500 to 650 at full throttle I think and over 700 up the hills but never saw 800W on the meter.

I need to hook up that meter to the 1,800W brushless motor for sure to see what I am working with. I know the 800W - 20" hub motor has about the same top speed as the e bikeling motors but a little better up the hills but think the 800W was rated at 48V so at 40V = 666W so up hills where it clearly out performed the 500W Geared hub motor it probably used between 850 and 1,000W I would guess.

Well The acceleration of the 1,800W brushless motor is a lot greater than the 800W DD hub motor so am thinking between 1,100 and 1,200W on the meter maybe even more. I guess we will see how close I am to guessing those numbers. I need a decent camera. I busted the cheap garbage I got at Wall-Mart and am looking for another Cannon like the one I had back in NY that is missing a charger. I will need to mount it so it will read the watt meter as well as a speedo. at the same time. That will tell us everything.

Thanks.

LC. out.

12/19/20 - 11:11 PM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pljSZcEwc8Q



I watched a video earlier and kind of made sense after what DA said about NOT using a BMS. I got to thinking as I was walking and came up with a great idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pljSZcEwc8Q

Basically I start by building 20 - 6S - 1P - packs each with a 6S balance plug.

Then I build 20 - 3S packs each with it's own balance plug.

They all connect to terminals one strip made out of wood for all 10 positive terminals and a second for negative. The same for the 3S packs.

The series wires will be twisted together with wire nuts. Not soldered and after every 3 or 4 charging cycles I can easily check EVERY SINGLE cell quickly with a balancer and then add the metal bars to parallel them all for 10P bulk charging. Also since no series connections need to be soldered it will take a minute to take out a bad cell and replace it with a good one.

In fact if the video of this guy who gave me the idea is correct I should consider tearing apart all my old packs that have BMSs and re assemble them like that. I will keep the new 10S - packs as they should be good for awhile but we all know I short circuited the old packs many times and the BMSs saved a catastrophe. Who knows if some of the cells are bad. A simple fuse is all that is needed for short circuit protection.

I will need to order all those balance plugs.( 20 - 6S) and (10 3S) Also I put 100 bucks on the card and am ordering about 150 of those cells from battery hook up.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pljSZcEwc8Q

The video is worth watching. Now I just have to figure out how I am going to build this thing. Any help will be appreciated. The cells are ordered and have the info. in my e mail. I am not sure if I should get spacers or cell holders. I know how to do the wiring for the balance plugs but need to figure out how to build the terminal blocks.

My blueprint is like a rough draft. It can be modified. The end result I am looking for is to be able to check ALL cells in like 1/2 hour before paralleling the packs and charging them. I plan on bulk charging and checking for bad cells every 3 or 4 cycles and can balance charge any 1P - 6S string as needed. separately if some cells are lower than others.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Ummm ...
I said "I, typically, do not use a BMS".
I'm not sure you have the patience, diligence or sobriety to do without?

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

150 cells are ordered. Thinking about ordering more for extra so they are available when I need them balanced and charged. I also will need a ton of 6S balance plugs with wires for building this.

Well soldering a wire to the top and bottom of a 18650 cell makes much more sense than soldering or spot welding a metal strip to parallel or series a string of cells together. If a cell goes bad you have to unsolder the strip to replace the cell. My way is untwisting a wire nut and removing the cell.

The only thing I need to do different is making strings of 6 series connections instead of 10 parallel connections like I was doing. Then twisting the wires from a 6S balance plug to the string of 6S cells.

After that it is just repetition.

Therefore the design of a 60 cell pack 6S - 10P is all about being able to quickly un-parallel all and be able to check all 10 balance plugs and then pull any strings out that need balance charging and bulk charging the others. With two 6S - LiPo chargers that part should also be simple. The only complicated part to any of this is the design of the pack for easy access to each string.

Also if extra strings ( 6S - 1P ) are already sitting on a shelf fully charged and balanced ahead of time then when an unbalanced string is found it can be replaced so you can run the pack then and run 6S - 10P in series for 12S then and worry about balancing strings later when you get back.

I am thinking hard about how to accomplish this.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Storage of fully charged batteries, I'd prefer to store them at 80-85% charged then its just a quick little charge to get them fully charged. Thats why I like to have 25-30 Ah battery but only ever really only use 15-20Ah on my longest route. Then you can charge to say 90% and still be well within your range capabilities with riding, say on the 30Ah battery you only really charge to 25Ah when your going out riding all the time, and charge to 20A on 30Ah battery when your off on vacation for 2 weeks. A better way to put the numbers would be on a voltage level. Storage @ 3.80V, Day to day riding @ 4.05-4.10V. Not because of any variant a cell group might have as the buffer for 4.10V charging, but for longevity. Not sure if thats true or not, maybe on the older batteries or generic grade C batteries. But I still wouldnt want to store my batteries at full charge. I just read this one post, might help ya, talks about a bms. Thread may get into storage voltages for long periods. Justin_le search term was storage voltage long time

sorry lost the link

 

[latecurtis]

Gearing for the 1,000W hub motor at 48V is about 28 mph I think @ 48V. With 12P - Lithium and a resting voltage of 4.15 - 12 * 4.15 = 49.8V. It should do about 29 mph then at full charge.

The 36V - 1,000W chain drive is 2,800 rpm @ 36V but a 10P or 8P 36V - 10S pack wont give too much SAG so at 40V it is almost 30 mph. (above pic)

So that is the plan. A 30 mph - 2,000 total watt BEAST. With a 15S pack for the hub motor and a 12S for the chain drive it should hit 35 mph easily on the flat.

I wont be swapping motors with the Currie. I am leaving the gear reduction motor on that.

As far as 40 mph goes I will take everyone's advice and order a 1,500W rear kit for the Haro V3 or the 27.5" Diamondback when we all get the 600 buck stimuli's check that just got passed. Looking at a 200 buck budget on that. I am saving the other 400.

I will want the kit to include a controller with the amps to do 40 mph and handle 60 to 66V to achieve 40 mph. If not will have to order the 1,500W motor and have it laced to a rim and get a hub motor controller separate because the next hub motor I order absolutely MUST go 40 mph.

This will be the last chain drive build for a long time.

thanks.

LC. out

 

[tomjasz]

Well soldering a wire to the top and bottom of a 18650 cell makes much more sense than soldering or spot welding a metal strip to parallel or series a string of cells together. If a cell goes bad you have to unsolder the strip to replace the cell. My way is untwisting a wire nut and removing the cell.

Please you are making your own rules and flying in the face of ALL the best practices. If soldering was so effective, practical, and best practice, don't you imagine more builders wouldn't bother with welders?

 

[markz]

There is one way you could do it, tab weld on your tabs as per usual and use non stranded copper wire to do the parallel.

Like when you get a box full of say Makita drill battery packs. Makita's were 5S2P packs, good for a 10S battery pack. Solder your wire to a spot between the centers of the 18650 can and it would never take much. Tin the tab and tin the wire, though I kind of liked a little bit of a gob on the solid core 10awg wire to get lots of solder making it a solid joint. Is it best practices, maybe not but it sure beats heating up a 18650 can on its anode and cathode.

An oldie but a goody, he words it better.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8733&p=133516&hilit=soldering+18650#p133516

More wise words on more then just the quote
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28285&p=407768&hilit=soldering+18650#p407768

-Dont OVERHEAT THE CELLS TAB! that will damage the cells ( the trick of soldering on the nickel sheet that is already spotwelded on them if to prevent this... and avoiding you to remove the white stuff

Damn that thread brings back memories of the goold ole Makita's.

 

[latecurtis]

I am thinking about using hot glue and drill holes in the side close to the top and gluing all the male connecters into the sides near the top for positive and the other side negative. I can mark each side with red or black tape. Then hooking all up to two female bullets coming out the end of that container. one negative and one positive. I can mark all the female plugs on the wires coming from the strings with red or black tape before the plug for negative and positive or could get some plastic paint.

Each 1S - 1P string would have a female connecter on both positive and negative wires. and just stack up the strings inside and use bubble wrap on the top of the stack so they do not slide around inside. Also some type of plastic separators could work.

The wires coming from the controller will both be male with red on one and black on the other for hook up. Short circuits will be a thing of the past but will add a fuse to the positive BEFORE the bullet connecter coming out the end anyway.
Holes will be cut in the top edges of the lid for each balance and power wire. I can number them 1 - 10 and each string built will have a number on it. If I get a string with unbalanced cells I can pull it out and balance it with the 200W Sky Charger and bulk charge all the other strings thru the bullets on the end with the 400W Mega Charger.



As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. -----------------------new eZip motor.

That is a video of the Bafang motor. I read it will do 20 mph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJmYxtsJCE

I know I should not have spent the money especially since I have two bikes ( 700c and 27.5" ) that could use a motor and these are 26" wheels the motors are on.

HOWEVER. The Currie eZip Trailz has a 750W chain drive gear reduction motor that runs perfect and geared for hills and cargo at approx. 18 to 20 mph I think. The thing is it is just TOO LOUD!!! Gear reduction motors are loud and the variable controller with a speed control knob is loud also so when I ride it I have a constant assault on my ears.

I figure I will leave that 750 watt gear reduction motor turned off on flat and down hills and turn it on when I need to climb a hill.

The other 26" hub motor can go on the front of the Haro V3 as I am still thinking about a 3,000W brushless chain drive for the back of that as it has the stock Currie rack perfect to mount a motor with a base to. OR I might give it to Mike as he has that Schwinn Ranger that needs a motor. If these motors work good I might order two more for that price so I have spares.

The 700c hybrid will sit and collect dust awhile until I get a good deal on a MAC or a BMC motor and the 27.5" Dimond Back gets a 1,500W direct drive and a 66V battery and controller for 40 mph.

I remember when I was a kid. I learned how to make paper airplanes and started making hundreds of them and was laughing at myself as I could not stop making paper airplanes.

Now I am an adult child. I am living like a spoiled rich brat as I can't stop building electric bicycles. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes. My Santa Claus works for FED X and his Elves USPS this Christmas as all my gifts are being shipped out.

The torque rating is 45 Nm on the Bafang motors and only 40 Nm on the e bikeling motors. However the rpm is only 205 on the Bafang motors and 300 on the e bikeling motors. The Bafang motors are rated at 500W and the Bafang is only 250 to 350W.

It don't really matter as I am using these front motors on bikes that will have powerful chain drives on the back so I can run the front motor solo on flat ground and have a quiet ride except for up hill. It will also be more efficient and can get more range that way.

I have a question. Is there a difference between a brushless controller for a chain drive and a hub motor. DAN sent me a 36V brushless controller awhile ago and I think he said it was 500W ????

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out

 

[latecurtis]

Does anybody know if a regular 500W brushless controller will work for a hub motor. ??????????????????

If not what is a cheap hub motor controller that will work ?????????????????????

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[tomjasz]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/business-commerce-invest-investor-investing-stocks-stocks_and_shares-aban225_low.jpg

 

[99t4]

My way is untwisting a wire nut and removing the cell.

I am thinking hard about how to accomplish this.

Are you still thinking about using wire nuts? In an application subject to vibration & movement?

 

[DrkAngel]

Those moli cells are perfect for soldering, unless LC rips the tabs off.
With similar, I just cut the tabs between cells, fold tabs away from edge and solder to p-rail.
Separation is necessary due to poor cell stacking pattern of 3s modules, could just separate 3rd cell?

Will require a large pack due to 2C max limit.

 

[latecurtis]

Basically for now I only need an 8P to 10P - 12S pack for the 48V - 1,000W hub motor that is going on the back. This bike will be no pedal and the 36W - 1,000W motor up front will hook up to one of my 10S packs. I just want 48V going to the rear so both motors are geared about the same , between 28 and 30 mph depending on the charge of the packs. It should hit 30 mph with all batteries at a full charge and 28 mph after being run for about 10 miles.

The bottom line is it will be a beast and if / when I want to I can increase the voltage to both motors to squeeze 35 mph out of it and not damage either motor. 40 mph is not happening with this build and NO DAN , This chain will not come off at 30 or 35 mph.

I need to get two more wire straps like the ones holding the motor but smaller for the bottom (bottom pic). I do not want to drill a hole and bolt it because I need about an inch to move the motor up to tighten the chain and if I need to take off the chain to fix a flat tire on the front I can slide it down an inch.

I am going to order #25H chain. It is a little stronger than #25. This build will be my main ride when it is done, With two motors and controllers it will be perfect for long distance and about any hill. I can put a large cargo basket on the back and a small basket on the front to mount that 1,700 lumen - 22W - 12V light with its own 3S - 12V pack. It also has a large triangle bracket for a lot of batteries and a controller on either side.

I am still wondering if any 500W brushless controller will work for those Bafang motors I ordered or is there a difference between hub motors and brushless motors for chain drives. I believe they both have 5 sensor wires. I want to put one Bafang motor on the front of the Currie. I might give the other away or I might keep it. It depends if I can get that 48V chain drive installed on the back of that black dual suspension I gave Mike. If it wont fit then I will throw him the other Bafang motor for the front of that Schwinn Ranger I passed Mike.

Also if I can get more of those Bafang motors for that price , about 50 bucks with shipping I will start building e bikes and sell them for a profit. I can buy brand new 26" bikes from Wall-Mart with all the gears and brakes perfect and just add a Bafang on the front and a small home build 10 or 15 ah 10S - 4P - pack and factor in parts and make 150 bucks for my time and labor. The cheaper I can get a controller for those motors the better.

Please let me know about controllers for the Bafang hub lotors.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Trying to blend in are you now. Maybe paint that wood black or just start building hub motor ebikes or mid drives.

 

[latecurtis]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Should have made the back braces longer.

Not cutting new but adding a little steel for the feel. More of those metal braces.

These type of motor mounts is like mad Max shit. I wish we could make a mad Max movie with electric bikes. :lol:

Thanks.

LC. out.



12/22/20

yea. I went to bed thinking about that. two 1/4 inch bolts thru the side and the ones on the bottom are so the steel strap can't slide down and off. The straps will make the top bracket even stronger and two on the bottom will keep the entire structure very ridged. The chain will not come off. This is very very strong. When I hook up the chain the entire bracket will slide up about 1 inch until the chain is tight then all bolts and straps get tightened down and I will install the front basket.

I will be painting it black. The basket is for my headlight and 12V battery pack. I also need a basket on the back for cargo. The hub motor on the back and batteries on top of the frame will make weight distribution even. This bike will be the ultimate beast. 2 kilowatts @ 30 mph gearing and approx. 2,500 watts for 35 mph if I upgrade the voltage to both motors.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Hose clamps are a nice touch but the running joke is if you can find black anodized hose clamps, and yes its about my 4th comment on black hose clamps but first attempt to look for any: https://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/parts-sale/112466-wtb-black-hose-clamps.html

and extra style points for the easy layup of black anodized bolts, nuts, washers, would match your black leather jacket for when you pull up to the biker bar but my guess is black fastener hardware is to expensive for your liking.

Of note, that wood aint pressure treated is it

oh and just noticed your handlebars with predrilled holes in the wood for flush mount, sheeeesh you went all out in refinement and design, yet no flush mount on the other fasteners.
congrats

 

[latecurtis]

Yes.

I do not think it is pressure treated but I used extra large washers and that steel on the bottom seals the deal as far as strength. I figured it was not pressure treated when sawing and drilling thru it as it was like butter compared to the pressure treated stuff.

No cracks at all with the washers and ready for primer and paint. I need to get primer first since it is not pressure treated it won't be as weather resistant so the primer and two coats of oil based paint will make up for that. It is also considerably lighter than pressure treated.

The only bad thing I can think of about this design is the van. The handle bars are too high and only way it can fit is putting it in on it's side horizontally. That means I wont have room for the Currie and both 20" bikes so will have to find room up stairs for them. That will be challenging. Also hauling it up those stairs if I have to work on it will be like wrestling a grizzly bear. I suspect that with the weight of two motors , batteries ect. It should stick to the ground at 35 mph. It is almost like a small motor cycle. With the bright headlight at night people might think it is a motor cycle. This is a really fun build.

I just added another flat steel bar on the opposite side for each. I need to get the metal straps for those. 2 on top and two on the bottom. I need some exercise anyway so will try Auto Zone. It is a lot closer than Home Depot. I found more #25 chain but not sure about master links. All I have is a 36V - 800W controller. That is a problem. It will run at 800W but the motor is 1,000W and if I over volt it at least 1,200W.

However I do not have a 48V battery yet so will probably be running both motors off of 36V. That is not the ideal gearing I was looking for as at 40 - 36V the front motor will be geared for 30 mph and the rear about 23 or 24 mph. It will run like that and total power will be 750 for the hub motor and 800 for the chain drive due to the controller so 800 + 750 = 1,550W.

Since the front motor will be 800W and not 1,000 it won't reach 30 mph but should be good for 25 mph and the hub motor might do that at 40V so will still work and be a beast. Once I get 48V going to the back and a 1,000W controller up front it will be a beast unchained.

Thanks.

LC. out.

12/22/20 8:10 PM. I just vacuumed the sawdust that got tracked all over the apartment and too late for Auto Zone tonight. Hopefully tomorrow.

I just calculated the gearing for the Haro V3 and it is very high for a 3 kilowatt motor.



I have the 8mm chain and breaker tool and in February Electric scooter parts are getting the 72T - 8mm freewheel sprockets in stock for about 27 bucks each. I guess I will need two then and BMX handle bars for the front of the Haro V3. The stock heavy duty Currie rack is on the back so a 60V - 3 Kilowatt brushless motor with a base can go on the back and bolt to the bottom where the electrodes were and put a second 3 kilowatt motor with no bracket on the front exactly like I just did on my current build.

THEN 56 mph won't be over geared as total power will be 6 Kilowatts.

 

[markz]

Until the first crash and the wood breaks, but hey look on the bright side if you crash and break it, you'll get some exercise out of either the walk home of shame or pedaling with no juice.

Your luck would be the bicycle leaning against the wall would fall on the ground when your inside the beer store and the wood breaks.

I remember clearly I had a pathetically weak 36V 25A setup with a cheap 9c clone dd hub (25H) that did not have enough power to go up a steep hill but totally doable hill, so I was walking up the hill, and this punk ass on a store bought fat bike whizzed by me. I was still in my being cheap phase, and hammered my fist down and said "Never again" when I got home I ordered a 36V 50A controller and built a battery that could handle it and of course I ordered a bigger motor. Having not enough power is demeaning.

This is very very strong.

 

[latecurtis]

Until the first crash and the wood breaks, but hey look on the bright side if you crash and break it, you'll get some exercise out of either the walk home of shame or pedaling with no juice.

Your luck would be the bicycle leaning against the wall would fall on the ground when your inside the beer store and the wood breaks.

Not possible. although it is not pressure treated it is soft wood. Not hard wood and won't crack easily. Also I would have my chain and lock wrapped around a pole that would stop the bike from hitting the ground.

Also there will be no pedal option as the 26" hub motor is getting a new rim at the bike shop and putting it on the back so if something were to go wrong with the front motor I still get home with no pedal.

I remember clearly I had a pathetically weak 36V 25A setup with a cheap 9c clone dd hub (25H) that did not have enough power to go up a steep hill but totally doable hill and this punk ass on a store bought fat bike whizzed by me.

Not sure if I will build a 65 mph Haro V3 with two 3 kilowatt brushless motors. I will probably save my money and just put a 1,600W brushless chain drive on the back and over volt it for 40 mph. I will put one of those Bafang motors on the front and when one of those 50 cc bikes or mini bikes fly by me when I am going 15 mph I hit the breaker for the rear motor and press a thumb throttle and fly past him. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am not sure about those brushless motors on e bay. Most are silver and look alike however many different power ratings, There is 1,500W , 1,600W , 1,800W , 2,000W 2,500W and 3,000W. Most don't list amp ratings so they could be using the same motor on three or four power ratings. That would make it a scam so am not sure what motor I will order or if I might get a 1,600W DD hub motor instead.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Free money coming your way courtesy of Mr Chump.
Spend Wisely

65 mph Haro V3 with two 3 kilowatt brushless motors.

No one should build that on bicycle frame and bicycle components.

I should have added I was walking up that hill because the ebike setup I had was so weak when the other ebiker cruised up by me so effortlessly. I will add that to the story I posted hours ago.

I am not sure about those brushless motors on e bay.

There are countless hub motors on fleabay, and you notice non mention how wide the stator is, but they're sure pleased to list a random wattage # to get the scaredy cats to buy 250W.

It comes down to buying from known seller on ebay/alibaba/aliexpress/amazon to know exactly what your getting. That is true for batteries as well.

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-DC-Motor-Brushless-Electric-Motor-1600W-BLDC-sprocket-stable-mini-bike/264629650671?hash=item3d9d2804ef:g:tnUAAOSwfopeQUzM



Notice the rpms. on that is 3.900. @ 48V.

3,900 rpm / 48V = 81.25 * 60V = 4,875 rpm.

All those 60V - 3,000W motors are rated at 4,800 rpm.

They could be the same motor.

Actually the 2,000W and 2,500W are also probably all the same as the 1,600W.

DA. might know as he is on top of these scams e bay has been pulling lately.

That is why I mentioned the 1,600W motor but if it is the same as the 3 kilowatt and the kit is cheaper than the 1,600W kit I get a controller also and @ 48V the 3 Kilowatt motor will have about 3,900 rpm. so two motors , one on the back and one on the front with a 72T sprocket would be 3,200W total power and do 46 mph. I could live with that.


Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

So you question the wattage listed but wont question the rpm stated.

They will tell ya anything to get a sale.

Notice the rpms. on that is 3.900.
3,900 rpm 4,875 rpm.3,000W motors are rated at 4,800 rpm.
They could be the same motor.
Actually the 2,000W3,900 rpm

 

[latecurtis]

So you question the wattage listed but wont question the rpm stated.

They will tell ya anything to get a sale.

Well it is just suspect if a motor rated at 48V is close to the rpms. of a 60V motor when you do the math.

3.900 / 48 = 81.25. RPM per volt.

4800 / 60 = 80 RPM.

My guess is it is the same exact motor. Brushless motors can be over volted. more than brush motors so would make complete sense.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124106065215?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACQBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickk%252FQO4nGv0YVpMJX2AIYwOOTFceYNb%252F1myxI7zeDZ7igjhmdqYDqJknLUNZiOj1c88wyp9IYE9wFFT1%252B%252BRXuMv0MXvaXY8qNyzWlErxBPmsvRIyMHo4ZRpaI7mjwy0ydiOHxmyFSeRzQdystdqtCPCWcNRJlywP2okeF6vF15zDqWWrtSh%252Fu%252FzYFKyLZQtyPcZfqkrKSsyt2oiyxJ8TheCL3PbkZoxfUv3GmOWk5xYU0hIT%252B8LryqJf0Vq7Bms1d76ieuobOO1QUi7L0WLGXctzewFBv6kDrcuBQ%252FG35Q0FYTW9hIa56x14RgLREDy4HZXQbuY%252Bygn3TmWjyeisu6W%252B21BFR%252B%252FoRWzwoox0eA9cYY35196yaMSA%252FZDrC0hVimNeT9GMtr0QO2cVw8gqjYh7MO9V3bIvkl5dGtrmKf7fZuM%252B0y%252F9Y8NFB0ZmrbsSiL8vFTbg9i1e3zrUarBN%252B1qDLgYt6o69irNKjDoNt%252Bqbej8zZVfX00dMmyF5wPsJ0FEJCo%252Fisf7eiSojyq5jdtCe%252F5PArfjQWuDeaIybRfNaV6UiYq2gdRVtXnzn5fJ1SYMIB2pCJZtSTw27y8jAxEEhjM0%252FfXnAs54YF%252BSjVZU9W4sQCZpz0v%252BSgAjBu6dEvOJM825o25iBdpXakpNAO3rE%252BSrGX0slEikaLJ%252F8H2%252BG0hXKLMsGjhQwCW4NCn6Ing%252B9VhlatehD45XWrnQ3mXqXw%253D%253D%7Ccksum%3A12410606521593f960923a704f2988999afd0b8dda47%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A3268220&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=124106065215&targetid=1098102009964&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1023608&poi=&campaignid=11774045932&mkgroupid=117378450867&rlsatarget=pla-1098102009964&abcId=9300473&merchantid=118852911&gclid=CjwKCAiA8ov_BRAoEiwAOZogwY3iEgzOkh4TMiTmQmkhpABn8DSgaoBXi2tEMQEsRcLd12Cld0ZWOxoC-bQQAvD_BwE

they rated the 2,000W at 4,300 RPM.

4,300 / 60 = 71.6. It is still not that far away from 80.

I also think the 2,500W was around 4,500 RPM which also supports my theory.

4,500 / 60 = 75.

.I do not see one listed today. The 72V 3,000W motor is rated at 4,900 RPM. but what if it is really 5,600 RPM.

5,600 / 72 = 77.7.

The reason why I picked 5,600 is a lot of brushless motors list 4,800 - 5,600.

I see it a lot looking at specs.

I know DA. is already investigating this sort of thing to make people aware of scams. I just care about the true KV. of the motor for gearing purposes.

If I do order one I want to get the lowest number when dividing the rated RPM by the rated voltage as do not feel like ordering a 150 tooth custom sprocket the size of a buzz saw. I do not want a motor that has an RPM a lot higher than the rating. I am not so much concerned about the scam otherwise as brushless motors can run at a wider range of voltage without harm. It is the RPM per volt which must be accurate or it will be way over geared and burn up from heat and be inefficient like DA. says.

The motors in question all look alike , and most are silver.

Thanks.

LC. out.