Newbie - Just Finished building a SideKick

[rsisson]

I just finished the basic construction of a Sidekick, which is a hybrid Quadracycle/bicycle thing....

Basically its a 4-wheeled cart made from MOSTLY 1.25" PVC Pipe. Seats two, and can carry over 400#'s.

http://www.americanspeedster.com/side-kick.htm

I will be adding a Phoenix Racer Hub Motor on a 20" wheel, and a crystalite 4840 controller. The Kit comes with SLA batteries, and I will be doing the debugging with those, but am planning to convert to LiPo's when the budget allows.

The frame is remarkably stiff, much to my surprise. It has a nice high gear, but not a very good low gear, it was designed for flatter territories, (Florida) so I am not surprised. (I am in Maryland)

I will be adding 2 super bright LED headlights, running lights, a horn, and some other stuff to make it more comfortable. Everything will be LED based to keep the drain down. I will be using a 48V->12V converter so as to not unbalance the battery pack... So far, my "auxiliary" drain will be less than 6A at 12v, or about 1.5A at 48V

The cost, well under $500 for the Sidekick, and then another $1K for the Hub motor, controller etc....

I think that it will top out at about 25 Mph, but I will still be able to go on Bike Paths... The Phoenix can go faster with a 26" wheel, but this thing uses 20"'s, and wind resistance is going to be an issue, even at 20Mph in this thing.

It is not as fancy or slick as some of the other vehicles on the forum, but it is fun, and was/is fun to tinker with. As mine is not painted yet, it has lots of Lowes and Home Depot stickers all over it, so it gets attention... (did you BUILD that, uhm, thing...)

Oh well, look for lots of post in various sections as I document my trials and tribulations with this...uhm... thing.

Well, I guess it qualifies as a NEV ??

Bob Sisson
Gaithersburg Md

 

[Ypedal]

Cool Rig !!! way to go !

Got good brakes ? 8)

 

[rsisson]

Uhm, Yea...

That was the first thing that got replaced. The Chinese brake shoes wouldn't stop me from rolling down my own driveway, much less haul it down from a good clip..

I am thinking about trying to figure out how to put brakes on the front... disks perhaps...

 

[Rassy]

Welcome to the forum rsisson. The Quad looks good. In the factory picture it looks like only one person gets to pedal? If only one wheel is driven be the pedals, it seems like it would be desirable to put the hub motor on the opposite wheel. Maybe I just can't see the detail clearly enough.

I like the canopy and framework. I've thought about doing something like that to my trike with a plexiglass front window, but decided to just ride in nice weather for now.

edit: I looked at your factory link, and see that there are two sets of pedals.

 

[fechter]

Welcome!

Once you get the motors on there, you won't need any pedals :wink:

PVC pipe? I never would have thought of using that as a DIY frame material. Pretty cool. Even I could do that (I don't have a welder).

 

[xyster]

Welcome!

Once you get the motors on there, you won't need any pedals :wink:

PVC pipe? I never would have thought of using that as a DIY frame material. Pretty cool. Even I could do that (I don't have a welder).

I thought I'd use thinner PVC pipe for the framework of a polycarbonate fairing. Good to see a working example of its use as a cheap, available, and easily-fashioned building material.

 

[Geebee]

The brakes look like Cantilevers, ie. they have a wire strap between them and you pull on this to stop.
If so you can dramaticaly increase braking power by shortening the wire strap to the absolute minimum needed to clear the tyre, doing this means you can exert much greater power on the pads with the same input at the lever.
Ignore this if you are already aware of it.
It looks like it would be easy to bolt mounts on the front wheel straps for caliper brakes (weak) or 2 mounts for v-brakes.
Or final easy option setup a caliper mount and fit v-brake adapter plates easy and very powerful.

How do you find the quads rigidity? handling etc. I was tempted to go this way a while back but I wonder how they would cope with getting airborne an inch or so at 40 mph or more specificaly the landing impact, lots of hills and some very rough roads down here.

 

[Malcolm]

Now that's neat. I looked at the photo first and thought "Wow, that must be heavy", then I read your description. Great use of materials. It's a shame the pipe couplings don't come in a wider range of angles. You could start triangulating then and create something very stiff and light.

Reminds me of my kids' Connex construction set

 

[rsisson]

The thing probably weighs about 80#'s right now, less the hub motor & stuff.

The two bottom rails are "re-enforced" with the top rail pipe from a chain link fence that fits INSIDE the PVC.

I am still playing with it so I don't know about handling.

I can say that on steep hills it does HORRIBLE as only one side is currently driven, and it has a LOT of torque steer. The front end is VERY light, so that is where I am going to put the batteries.

Just had a Blow out in the garage this morning, must have folded the tube when I put it in... so I am off to the shop for something non EV related...

Ok...back with bits and a few test rides.... Still working on the NON-Electric stuff... making sure it will be safe when we bump up the speed...

Definitely going to need some beefier brakes... and it is TWITCHY.. on the steering...

 

[fechter]

If you added a motor to the other side it would get rid of the torque steering problem

I wonder if you could re-design the steering linkage to give a variable rate steer. I had a RC car with something like that. This makes it much less twitchy but still gives the full steering range.

If you put a bunch of batteries behind the back bumper, perhaps you could make it do wheelies.

 

[maytag]

PVC pipe? I never would have thought of using that as a DIY frame material. Pretty cool. Even I could do that (I don't have a welder).

Some of you old VisforVoltage forum members should remember this PVC gokart. Somebody posted details and pics of this kart way back in the day, I'm surprised Fechter didnt remember (actually totally slipped my mind too until this thread came along). The post on Vis4V included larger photos, pretty darn slick.

http://robertklee10.tripod.com/shock_pictures.htm

 

[fechter]

Some of you old VisforVoltage forum members should remember this PVC gokart. Somebody posted details and pics of this kart way back in the day, I'm surprised Fechter didnt remember (actually totally slipped my mind too until this thread came along). The post on Vis4V included larger photos, pretty darn slick.

http://robertklee10.tripod.com/shock_pictures.htm

I totally don't remember that one. I probably killed that brain cell last week. I get a kick out of the cooling fan on the motor. A pair of those cheap Kollmorgen motors would make something like that go pretty quick.

 

[rsisson]

Got the Motor in today...Phoenix Racer on a 20" wheel.

A bit of pedaling and it makes it up even my STEEP driveway...

Thats the good news...

Bad news... first distance/speed test I found out what part of the frame was loose...

One Pothole and the frame popped a joint, everything went separate ways...

Everything stayed upright... but the batteries bounced off their shelf and took some wires out...

I will need to re-fasten some stuff after I solder the wires back...

Oh yes... 22MPH when catastrophe struck...

at 22MPH the Sidekick is a bit TOO responsive, twitchy even...

The steering is set for Toe-In, I think I will set it for toe-out, slow things down and make it more stable...

 

[Geebee]

Be very careful if you decide to try toe-out, it is a major no-no on tadpole trikes as it makes the steering upredictable and even more twitchy and increase drag more than toe in.

 

[TylerDurden]

Ja... my experience in autos w/ toe-out is more tendency to hunt and dodge.

:?

 

[rsisson]

OK, Toe-Out is to be avoided...

Thanks for that...will have to see what I can do to "slow down" the steering... at speed it was far too sensitive.....

 

[docnjoj]

These folks have 45 degree T fittings. U should be able to create triangular structure with them!
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pvc.html#wye
David

 

[docnjoj]

Can both driver and passenger pedal at the same time?
David

 

[rsisson]

Both People can pedal..although all the power goes to one side...

The Driver side is Pedal power, the Passenger side is Hub-Motor.

 

[lazarus2405]

Both People can pedal..although all the power goes to one side...

The Driver side is Pedal power, the Passenger side is Hub-Motor.

That really seems like a silly configuration, coming stock with the power on only one side. And I can't imagine things are balanced as it is now, between the human and the phoenix.

I'd have recommended getting something like two 408s, one for each rear. If you controlled both motors with a single throttle, I think it would be a lot more stable than you have it now.

Regardless, it's pretty amazing, what you have there. Your grin must be pretty wide.

 

[rsisson]

Once all the OTHER issues are to rest... I may get another Motor for the other side... But I think some really good batts will come first.

It only has some 12Ahr SLA's, I would rather have some NiHm or LiPo's to get back the weight and/or range...

We will see....

 

[Germwise]

How much does it weigh?

I was thinking of constructing one with squre aluminum tubing like here http://www.instructables.com/id/STY3OCXF6B7Q8AI/

does the kit lend itself to use other materials?


Congrats on the new toy btw!


--Marcelo

 

[rsisson]

With the batteries, Motor, seats and everything it is probably less than 125#

The plans are quite specific... and it IS steel reinforced. The lower rails have a Chain-link fence top rail post in them.

Here is a more recent picture

 

[Germwise]

Is this legally considered an NEV or a bicycle? What if any laws govern it? Can I drive it 6 miles to walmart to go grocery shopping? There are some roads that are 45. eek. I don't want to get run over but There aren't many sidewalks and I really would want the vehicle to replace 90 pct of my driving.

 

[rsisson]

As long as I keep it under 20, it is a bicycle... over 20, well we won't talk about that...

To Giant, Safeway and Lowes are exactly what I built it for...

I keep it to the sidewalks and Bike paths...

If I was doing 30 on a bike path, or on a 40Mph street, I might more attention than I want...

20 is plenty fast thank you... No speed contests, but I will get there and back safely with my groceries...