Nuvinci CVT hub

[EbikeMaui]

It's interesting how the gear vs hub plus hillclimb threads have been very quiet lately as well. A few people said hub motors are no good on steep hills, so I went out of my way to find the steepest reasonably long hill within riding distance of my house, and they seem to have shut up. :lol:

Hey well that's some torque! :lol:
http://tinyurl.com/2q82ou
A 72 volt crystalyte has some trouble keeping up with a currie.
http://tinyurl.com/2lvoqk


Try a real grade with no pedaling or jerking!
http://tinyurl.com/2z7dhj

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

It's interesting how the gear vs hub plus hillclimb threads have been very quiet lately as well. A few people said hub motors are no good on steep hills, so I went out of my way to find the steepest reasonably long hill within riding distance of my house, and they seem to have shut up. :lol:

While you are pedaling your ass off in your video.
http://tinyurl.com/2q82ou

Try a real grade with no pedaling.
http://tinyurl.com/2z7dhj

Does anyone else have a problem with cranking? :?

It's an ebike & this discussion is in the ebike section. The whole point of a hybrid to take take advantage of all of it's capabilites as the situation demands. You don't deliberately operate with one hand tied behind your back & only run at half throttle either.

 

[EbikeMaui]

It's interesting how the gear vs hub plus hillclimb threads have been very quiet lately as well. A few people said hub motors are no good on steep hills, so I went out of my way to find the steepest reasonably long hill within riding distance of my house, and they seem to have shut up. :lol:

While you are pedaling your ass off in your video.
http://tinyurl.com/2q82ou

Try a real grade with no pedaling.
http://tinyurl.com/2z7dhj

Does anyone else have a problem with cranking? :?

It's an ebike & this discussion is in the ebike section. The whole point of a hybrid to take take advantage of all of it's capabilites as the situation demands. You don't deliberately operate with one hand tied behind your back & only run at half throttle either.

That is a age old excuse for not having performance when you need it.If you needed power from a hub motor It would have to be twice the size. A 35 lb motor?
You bring up a good piont! Would you rather pedal a HEAVY,
COGGING hub motor bike when you are up to speed without the motor on ? Or a freewheeling system with a 5 lb motor ?

 

[Mathurin]

Heh, an X5 is 25lbs and beats the crap out of your system...

 

[EbikeMaui]

Heh, an X5 is 25lbs and beats the crap out of your system...

Prove it! Where is your video of your steep hill?
http://tinyurl.com/yj4jv6

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

It's interesting how the gear vs hub plus hillclimb threads have been very quiet lately as well. A few people said hub motors are no good on steep hills, so I went out of my way to find the steepest reasonably long hill within riding distance of my house, and they seem to have shut up. :lol:

While you are pedaling your ass off in your video.
http://tinyurl.com/2q82ou

Try a real grade with no pedaling.
http://tinyurl.com/2z7dhj

Does anyone else have a problem with cranking? :?

It's an ebike & this discussion is in the ebike section. The whole point of a hybrid to take take advantage of all of it's capabilites as the situation demands. You don't deliberately operate with one hand tied behind your back & only run at half throttle either.

That is a age old excuse for not having performance when you need it.If you needed power from a hub motor It would have to be twice the size. A 35 lb motor?
You bring up a good piont! Would you rather pedal a HEAVY,
COGGING hub motor bike when you are up to speed without the motor on ? Or a freewheeling system with a 5 lb motor ?

It's not an excuse. The pilot is a legitamite auxilliary power supply that forms part of the overall system. You are engaging in the age-old practice of cherry-picking your parameters *cough* wmd's.

 

[EbikeMaui]

While you are pedaling your ass off in your video.
http://tinyurl.com/2q82ou

Try a real grade with no pedaling.
http://tinyurl.com/2z7dhj

Does anyone else have a problem with cranking? :?

It's an ebike & this discussion is in the ebike section. The whole point of a hybrid to take take advantage of all of it's capabilites as the situation demands. You don't deliberately operate with one hand tied behind your back & only run at half throttle either.

That is a age old excuse for not having performance when you need it.If you needed power from a hub motor It would have to be twice the size. A 35 lb motor?
You bring up a good piont! Would you rather pedal a HEAVY,
COGGING hub motor bike when you are up to speed without the motor on ? Or a freewheeling system with a 5 lb motor ?

It's not an excuse. The pilot is a legitamite auxilliary power supply that forms part of the overall system. You are engaging in the age-old practice of cherry-picking your parameters *cough* wmd's.

As in yours HAVING to pedal to get Efficient performance as I can do without pedaling.. So what is more efficient A 5 lb motor powering a ebike without having to pedal or YOU pedaling WITH a HEAVY 20 lb Hub motor and still not being able to climb a hill as fast OR as efficiently.Facts are facts.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Does anyone else have a problem with cranking? :?

It's an ebike & this discussion is in the ebike section. The whole point of a hybrid to take take advantage of all of it's capabilites as the situation demands. You don't deliberately operate with one hand tied behind your back & only run at half throttle either.

That is a age old excuse for not having performance when you need it.If you needed power from a hub motor It would have to be twice the size. A 35 lb motor?
You bring up a good piont! Would you rather pedal a HEAVY,
COGGING hub motor bike when you are up to speed without the motor on ? Or a freewheeling system with a 5 lb motor ?

It's not an excuse. The pilot is a legitamite auxilliary power supply that forms part of the overall system. You are engaging in the age-old practice of cherry-picking your parameters *cough* wmd's.

As in yours HAVING to pedal to get Efficient performance as I can do without pedaling.. So what is more efficient A 5 lb motor by it]s self or a heavy 20 lb hub motor with you having to help it ?

Well since the human input don't register on the ole DrainBrain it may very well be that cranking offsets enuf of the load to put the motor into it's efficient band. That the whole point of a parallel hybrid setup.

 

[EbikeMaui]

That is a age old excuse for not having performance when you need it.If you needed power from a hub motor It would have to be twice the size. A 35 lb motor?
You bring up a good piont! Would you rather pedal a HEAVY,
COGGING hub motor bike when you are up to speed without the motor on ? Or a freewheeling system with a 5 lb motor ?

It's not an excuse. The pilot is a legitamite auxilliary power supply that forms part of the overall system. You are engaging in the age-old practice of cherry-picking your parameters *cough* wmd's.

As in yours HAVING to pedal to get Efficient performance as I can do without pedaling.. So what is more efficient A 5 lb motor by it]s self or a heavy 20 lb hub motor with you having to help it ?

Well since the human input don't register on the ole DrainBrain it may very well be that cranking offsets enuf of the load to put the motor into it's efficient band. That the whole point of a parallel hybrid setup.

Yes because you have no other options. If you did you wouldn't be having to pedal so hard to make up for the inefficiencies of a HEAVY hub motor that is so available.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

That is a age old excuse for not having performance when you need it.If you needed power from a hub motor It would have to be twice the size. A 35 lb motor?
You bring up a good piont! Would you rather pedal a HEAVY,
COGGING hub motor bike when you are up to speed without the motor on ? Or a freewheeling system with a 5 lb motor ?

It's not an excuse. The pilot is a legitamite auxilliary power supply that forms part of the overall system. You are engaging in the age-old practice of cherry-picking your parameters *cough* wmd's.

As in yours HAVING to pedal to get Efficient performance as I can do without pedaling.. So what is more efficient A 5 lb motor by it]s self or a heavy 20 lb hub motor with you having to help it ?

Well since the human input don't register on the ole DrainBrain it may very well be that cranking offsets enuf of the load to put the motor into it's efficient band. That the whole point of a parallel hybrid setup.

Here Randall, let me save you the trouble having to respond.

Here's a nice little boiler-plate.

Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah HEAVY blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah MORE EFFICIENT

Fact of the matter is that you're splitting hairs claiming greater efficiency. All electrics are already more efficient than ICE & you want to go with a mil-spec F-18 controller just to squeeze a few more percentage points of efficiency out of a system. Hub motors don't represent the ultimate in efficiency but what's key is that they're good enuf to do the job.

And why do you keep dodging the question, why haven't you sold a single u-bike (u stands for uber). C'mon, I'm sure you must lay awake some nights wondering about that, shirely.

 

[Lowell]

[/quote] As in yours HAVING to pedal to get Efficient performance as I can do without pedaling.. So what is more efficient A 5 lb motor powering a ebike without having to pedal or YOU pedaling WITH a HEAVY 20 lb Hub motor and still not being able to climb a hill as fast OR as efficiently.Facts are facts.[/quote]

Ok, let's talk about speed up hills. How fast will your bike go up a 4.25% grade. Faster than 48mph? Oh wait, you said your top speed is 42mph didn't you? How about a 10% grade? Faster than 40mph?

Pedaling up hills at those speeds will slow you down due to aero losses.

 

[EbikeMaui]

I am not interested in entering a small market filled up with high price junk. Once I see a product that can preform as well as my prototypes may dabble with a tour or rental here if the laws are changed soon.Otherwise its up to you guys to prove your stuff. I have done my share to give you the facts if you do want performance in the lightest POWER package with best efficency and longevity that is cost effective.
meaning CAN be made cheaper than what ebike dealers now pay for junk.
Bussiness has to be fun or why do it ?
I would rather just keep surfing and sailing for my retirement.
A little renigade ebike crusing is also fun.
So is showing people how far ebike system can advance beyond what is now available to everyone. Other than bicycle parts 90% of great DYI motor can be found at any auto parts store or junk yard. Or under YOUR hood that will be more lighter,more powerful and more efficient than any ebike hubmotor.

 

[Lowell]

It's like when you email a big company, and you get a canned form letter reply. They never actually read your message... :lol:

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

I am not interested in entering a small market filled up with high price junk. Once I see a product that can preform as well as my prototypes may dabble with a tour or rental here if the laws are changed soon.Otherwise its up to you guys to prove your stuff. I have done my share to give you the facts if you do want performance in the lightest POWER package with best efficency and longevity that is cost effective.
meaning CAN be made cheaper than what ebike dealers now pay for junk.
Bussiness has to be fun or why do it ?
I would rather just keep surfing and sailing for my retirement.
A little renigade ebike crusing is also fun.

Too good for us pleebs, eh?

But why haven't you put at least one bike in someone else's hands that could independantly corroberate your claims. Even give it away to some disabled charity or vetran.

No, it's up to you to prove your claim of efficiency. A video doesn't measure current draw. And any engineer knows it's worthless to compare a one-of prototype tucked away in a garage somewhere to a production unit that's widely available. It's apples & oranges.

And you're not cheaper either. Add in the distribution costs & dealer markup & yours is the same price if not more. Again apples & oranges comparing cost to manufacture with a retail price.

By all means stay out at the beach with your head in the sand.

 

[EbikeMaui]

As in yours HAVING to pedal to get Efficient performance as I can do without pedaling.. So what is more efficient A 5 lb motor powering a ebike without having to pedal or YOU pedaling WITH a HEAVY 20 lb Hub motor and still not being able to climb a hill as fast OR as efficiently.Facts are facts.[/quote]

Ok, let's talk about speed up hills. How fast will your bike go up a 4.25% grade. Faster than 48mph? Oh wait, you said your top speed is 42mph didn't you? How about a 10% grade? Faster than 40mph?

Pedaling up hills at those speeds will slow you down due to aero losses.[/quote] I made a ebike that saves on power NOT TO WASTE IT! 15 to 30 mph on the flats or hills EFFICIENTLY with power to spare to maintain a decent speed is what I made my ebikes for and it is as dangerous as any other bicycle going that fast.I'm Thinking on a 5 kw system on a 100cc dirtbike frame soon. To trick out a bicycle to be as safe would cost way too much to make from scratch. A set of lights and a horn might make it moped legal at least in my neck of the woods.
Around here a 10 % grade is a dinky lump. 15 to 20% is your avrage climb on the 100 or so valleys on the coastal road around the island on a 125 mile trip..Maui is called "The Valley Isle" for a reason.See how fast you can go up a hill here for 10 miles :lol: Without using your hub to cook fish on.Show The Video! Or I say BS! at 48 mph up hill for any distance over 5 min.

 

[Lowell]

"As in yours HAVING to pedal to get Efficient performance as I can do without pedaling.. So what is more efficient A 5 lb motor powering a ebike without having to pedal or YOU pedaling WITH a HEAVY 20 lb Hub motor and still not being able to climb a hill as fast OR as efficiently.Facts are facts."

Well let's look at the facts. My heavy 20lb hub motor goes faster on the flats and up hills than your 5lb motor. You still didn't say how fast you can go up a 10% grade while watching the scenery.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

Well let's look at the facts. My heavy 20lb hub motor goes faster on the flats and up hills than your 5lb motor. You still didn't say how fast you can go up a 10% grade while watching the scenery.

You're comparing two completely different motors. A more useful comparison is maximum sustained speed on level ground, or a 5% grade, or 10%, at a fixed power input (W).

I like hub motors but geared motors do have advantages. It's common knowledge that electric motors are always more efficient at higher RPMs than lower RPMS (all else being equal). A geared motor can run at maximum speed all the time, whereas a hub motor cannot.

 

[Lowell]

Well let's look at the facts. My heavy 20lb hub motor goes faster on the flats and up hills than your 5lb motor. You still didn't say how fast you can go up a 10% grade while watching the scenery.

You're comparing two completely different motors. A more useful comparison is maximum sustained speed on level ground, or a 5% grade, or 10%, at a fixed power input (W).

I like hub motors but geared motors do have advantages. It's common knowledge that electric motors are always more efficient at higher RPMs than lower RPMS (all else being equal). A geared motor can run at maximum speed all the time, whereas a hub motor cannot.

While I do agree that is a better comparison, Randy seems to think his "5lb" motor can beat any ebike up hills...

 

[EbikeMaui]

"As in yours HAVING to pedal to get Efficient performance as I can do without pedaling.. So what is more efficient A 5 lb motor powering a ebike without having to pedal or YOU pedaling WITH a HEAVY 20 lb Hub motor and still not being able to climb a hill as fast OR as efficiently.Facts are facts."

Well let's look at the facts. My heavy 20lb hub motor goes faster on the flats and up hills than your 5lb motor. You still didn't say how fast you can go up a 10% grade while watching the scenery.

On a 36 mile UP HILL trip in 3 hours, with a 10,005 feet elevation rise I averaged 12 MPH just on the up hill part of the trip carrying 80 lbs of batteries.. This has been documented a couple of times.The down hill portion averages as fast as you dare to go as fast as 50 mph the whole way if you can stay on the road.

With lightweight Lithiums the speed and miles per WH are much better.A HUB MOTOR WOULD FRY!! being used vary UNefficiently at LOW RPM and a HEAVIER PAYLOAD and power load (up to 900 watts for some 20* grades using my system. or MORE for the heavy UNEFFICIENT HUB MOTOR). FACTS ARE FACTS! until YOU prove otherwise.
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=562

 

[EbikeMaui]

Well let's look at the facts. My heavy 20lb hub motor goes faster on the flats and up hills than your 5lb motor. You still didn't say how fast you can go up a 10% grade while watching the scenery.

You're comparing two completely different motors. A more useful comparison is maximum sustained speed on level ground, or a 5% grade, or 10%, at a fixed power input (W).

I like hub motors but geared motors do have advantages. It's common knowledge that electric motors are always more efficient at higher RPMs than lower RPMS (all else being equal). A geared motor can run at maximum speed all the time, whereas a hub motor cannot.

This is true.What is also true is hub motor magnets are weaker and scewed to help reduce coasting cogging.This reduces torque and efficiency of the motors performance.Also the HEAT from the INSIDE coil windings gets trapped by the magnets while trying to radiate outwards.Outside stators radiate heat much better and stronger rotor magnets with smaller air gaps make a more powerfull motor and efficient motor in a MUCH SMALLER package.
A hub motor in a 26" wheel won't start getting its efficient RPM range UNTIL the wind forces are already cutting into the rated 450 watt area that the motors were NOT designd to handle efficiently.So claims that any hub motors are efficient pushing a ebike and rider faster than 22 mph efficiently are unfounded unless the hub motor is in a small wheel or going with the wind or down hill. or all three things metiond.Besides PEDALING HARD! All things ARE NOT equal. The motors are constructed quite differently and it reflects in the performance AND LONGEVITY! of magnets, Coils hall sensors and controllers.

Compare all ALL AROUND PERFORMANCE Vidios with any ebikes with hub motors or anything else electric..
http://tinyurl.com/y9hh8s

 

[Lowell]

Ok, I'm glad we agree that my hub motor is faster all around, up hill, down hill, on the flats.

Your setup is better for grinding up a volcano for 3 hours @ 12mph.

I have yet to hear of ANYONE burning out an X5 hub. Can you point me to someone who hes melted one down? A hub motor can be cooled like any of the outrunner hobby motors by putting holes in the side covers as I have done to promote airflow.

 

[EbikeMaui]

Ok, I'm glad we agree that my hub motor is faster all around, up hill, down hill, on the flats.

Your setup is better for grinding up a volcano for 3 hours @ 12mph.

I have yet to hear of ANYONE burning out an X5 hub. Can you point me to someone who hes melted one down? A hub motor can be cooled like any of the outrunner hobby motors by putting holes in the side covers as I have done to promote airflow.

Show me a Video of a hub motor climbing a 30% grade for 2 minutes or a 20 % grade or a 15 % grade for 1 hour and I garentee you can fry a egg on it, Holes or not.
Can you point me to a hub motor ebike Video climbing such hills above 12 mph carring 80 lbs of batteries or with lithiums?
In the middle of a 15 mile ride climbing hills (using a total of 6 ah on the trip) this was the steepest one. Prove to me your point?
http://tinyurl.com/yj4jv6

 

[Lowell]

Ok, I'm glad we agree that my hub motor is faster all around, up hill, down hill, on the flats.

Your setup is better for grinding up a volcano for 3 hours @ 12mph.

I have yet to hear of ANYONE burning out an X5 hub. Can you point me to someone who hes melted one down? A hub motor can be cooled like any of the outrunner hobby motors by putting holes in the side covers as I have done to promote airflow.

Show me a Video of a hub motor climbing a 30% grade for 5 minutes or a 20 % grade or a 15 % grade for 1 hour and I garentee you can fry a egg on it, Holes or not.

I'd do it if such an animal existed within riding distance of me. The best I could find was a 1500m long 12.8% grade, which as I stated in another thread was a steady 57km/h with about 17lbs of extra cargo. So that's about 1.5 min to climb to the top. Reality is that cities aren't normally built with hour long 15% grades, let alone 5 minute 30% grades.

 

[EbikeMaui]

Ok, I'm glad we agree that my hub motor is faster all around, up hill, down hill, on the flats.

Your setup is better for grinding up a volcano for 3 hours @ 12mph.

I have yet to hear of ANYONE burning out an X5 hub. Can you point me to someone who hes melted one down? A hub motor can be cooled like any of the outrunner hobby motors by putting holes in the side covers as I have done to promote airflow.

Show me a Video of a hub motor climbing a 30% grade for 5 minutes or a 20 % grade or a 15 % grade for 1 hour and I garentee you can fry a egg on it, Holes or not.

I'd do it if such an animal existed within riding distance of me. The best I could find was a 1500m long 12.8% grade, which as I stated in another thread was a steady 57km/h with about 17lbs of extra cargo. So that's about 1.5 min to climb to the top. Reality is that cities aren't normally built with hour long 15% grades, let alone 5 minute 30% grades.

Your eluding to not testing your BS where are ANY Videos? The point is where I live there is NOT a Ebike on earth that I can buy to fit MY NEEDS.So I made one with a system that can fit ANYONES needs..Except YOURS but who else needs to go faster than 45 MPH ?
http://tinyurl.com/vr9ja

 

[Lowell]

If it will fit anyone's needs, put your design into production already. Build it cheap in China, and sell by the container.
My personal opinion is that you will have a hard time competing in the marketplace with hub motors that can be installed on almost any bike in an evening by anyone that can service their own bike. Prove me wrong.