Off the shelf? is 50 mph a dream?

[LI-ghtcycle]

I act like I am on a regular bicycle. I generally keep it under 20mph and stay way to the right. I like to increase the chance that I will be seen (bigger target?) so I wear a yellow vest with reflective stripes and ride with my front and rear lights blinking even during the day. I keep my eyes open and I don't trust anybody either (drivers or pedestrians). I believe that people give crazy people a wider berth so I play up that side of it. It's a small town and they know me here so I don't have to work too hard to convince them about that - jd

I like that! I have allowed myself to wobble a little to give the impression that I'm not that stable so they give me a wider berth, but I LOVE the "crazy" idea! I too use lights day and night, and I figure a little bit of cash spent on batteries is money well spent to keep me safe, but I hope to soon have all my lights powered by my main pack.

 

[dogman dan]

Guilty here too. One of the tickets I got in my 20's was for 90 mph in a 25 zone. KZ 750, considered pretty quick back then. I finally sold it so I'd survive. One left crosser at 90 mph and I'd be dead. Had lots and lots of close calls. The next bike was a 250 geared for trials. Top speed 45 mph. :wink:

I do the visibility thing too, with a wardrobe of bright yellow shirts. I found the lycra getup got me more room here. The racers have been known to key a too close car with a pointy ring on the left hand. I just don't think turn signals on bike or motorcycles are big enough to be seen. A large flashing headlight works good though.

My commuter has an absolute top speed of 20 mph. When it gets cold, and the bike path is deserted again, I''ll put a faster motor back on though.

 

[jdcburg]

Speaking as a car driver, I like the idea of brake lights on vehicles traveling in car lanes. MCs, scooters and mopeds usually have them. I'm more likely to have my attention drawn to a sudden flash of red light than an increase in proportional size of a small vehicle. Plus I subconsciously expect some warning. If I know the vehicle doesn't have brake lights then I have to concentrate on them more and consequently other areas less. That doesn't really apply to slower moving bicycles and mobility scooters as I give them extra lateral space and am past them pretty quickly anyway. For them, flashing red lights and/or flags work for me - jd

 

[GTR2EBIKE]

200mph on a motorcycle isn't safe.

100mph in a car, really, isn't either.

Yet, 200mph motorcycles and 100mph cars are sold, "off the shelf", every day.

That's all I'm saying.

100mph cars? I've been 202 mph in a car, i'd ride a 50 mph e-bike everyday on my commute if I had the skills to build one.

 

[torker]

200mph on a motorcycle isn't safe.

100mph in a car, really, isn't either.

Yet, 200mph motorcycles and 100mph cars are sold, "off the shelf", every day.

That's all I'm saying.

100mph cars? I've been 202 mph in a car, i'd ride a 50 mph e-bike everyday on my commute if I had the skills to build one.

I've been 150 in a car on the street 3 times all at night. Yea I was a genius teenager too 8) Thing is bad things can happen at 60 or 70 in a car. We are not invincible. If you want to run 50 on a bike then you must be willing to take more risk. A flashing light or two is a good idea. I will notice one of those a mile away.

 

[Pedalex]

And the challenge is All items needed to get to this speed must be of the shelf.
So how would you do your set up??

if money is no problem:

- buy an eRockit

- buy a PG BB PACE and the necessary tuning parts from their shop

and if money REALLY doens´t matter spend 80k $ on an ugly Blacktrail

if i had the choice to get one of them for free i´d surely take the eRockit. ...or take the blacktrail, sell it and buy 5 eRockits

 

[John in CR]

The only video of the erockit I've seen before was pretty tame, but that's an awesome pedelec. If you have to peddle, then that's the way to go. For that kind of price they need to hire someone to rework the battery compartment to be more stylish. I realize the bottom bracket placement causes the pregnant guppy shape. Maybe even just some paint and shading can do the trick.

 

[Fenman]

Thanks for the replys so far,but keep them coming
This Project will take a bit of time to do as and when funds allow the purchase of items,
I have no intention of running at 50 mph all the time,Its something i want to do as a achevment
After talking to MR Lyen I will be ordering one of his fine controllers a 12 x 4110 controller,This is the second item for the build,Having just got a new 26" Mountain Bike.
The next item on my shopping list will be the 5303 rear hub ,unless there is a faster motor out?
My thoughts on voltage were to run @60 or 72v
Not to sure about batterys yet as my battery building skills suck So any ideas are welcome.
Normal everyday running speed will be up to 25mph and Hopfull I will get a range of 15 miles,,,

 

[icecube57]

Im running 66v 15AH pack on a 5303 and it will reach 45mph given a long enough level road even better with a slope in your favor. At 44v I was able to hit 40mph for the first few AH of my ride.I know it lick 50mph at 88v in the flats. Like someone said earlier in this thread... the 12fet is for the 40mph club. It can take you to 50 in short bursts. I think the key to playing it safe is to keep the phase current sane on the 12fet controllers with low wind motors. I ran 120A at 44v with a few wiring issues. Ive reduced down to 95A for 66v and upgraded my phase wires inside my motor to 12G. I dont have anymore issues with phase wires or connectors. I do have a problem with the phase wires on the controller melting. I recently shrink wrapped the phase wire lines with heat shrink thats good up to 300C for short periods. This shouls solve my problem. I may keep my phase current the same going to 88v. When you reduce your phase current you lower your top end loaded speed a little and your acceleration time will suffer. Ive been pushing my 12 fet hard hard. I think and its working find under continuous WOT under various conditions with my 5303. Everyone says WOT is the key. Which it may br leading to my success. If the controller isnt your failure point it will be your wiring. Ask lyen to upgrade your phase wires on the controller. He will do it for a small fee. They will melt on you and try to short. Im pushing 3500w-4000w to maintain my speed in the 40s. 5000w or more will be needed to hold you near the 50s.

 

[neptronix]

I try not to push the legality in my town, and ruin it for others. Then we'd be just like some Arizona towns. So my "bike trail" bike goes 20 mph. Off the bike trail, in the right place and time, I have a faster bike.

That's what i'm talkin' bout. All it takes is for a few guys keeping up with cars in the bike lane, overtaking cars, getting injured at high speeds, etc. for laws to be made.

That is why an electric motorcycle is so much better. For one, it's heavy so theft is less of an issue. For two, no legal issues, for three, it's built for that kind of power; so it comes with wide tires, beefy dropouts, etc!

I don't see where you would operate a 50mph eBike without drawing unwanted attention. Maybe on a long deserted country road in one of the car lanes.

Of course this stuff isn't going to be available to the public.

 

[GTR2EBIKE]

200mph on a motorcycle isn't safe.

100mph in a car, really, isn't either.

Yet, 200mph motorcycles and 100mph cars are sold, "off the shelf", every day.

That's all I'm saying.

100mph cars? I've been 202 mph in a car, i'd ride a 50 mph e-bike everyday on my commute if I had the skills to build one.

I've been 150 in a car on the street 3 times all at night. Yea I was a genius teenager too 8) Thing is bad things can happen at 60 or 70 in a car. We are not invincible. If you want to run 50 on a bike then you must be willing to take more risk. A flashing light or two is a good idea. I will notice one of those a mile away.

150 is fun but 200+ is different. 150 is just a sunday cruise 8)

 

[Farfle]

I have done 56mph on a nice quality hardtail bike.
heres some specs:
BRAKES:Gatorbrake 6-piston with 185mm rotors. best $90 i have ever spent. http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydraulic-Disc-Brake-Set-Front-and-Rear-/120549437042?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c114e6e72
controller: Lyen 18-fet
motor: crystalyte 5304
battery: 24s 1p 5800Mah 30c HK lipo for 100.8v fully charged.

This bike has crazy flip-you-on-your-arse torque and will beat my friends golf to 30mph and my friends dodge ram to 45 mph.When i ride, i wear a motorcycle helmet, reflective vest, and have bright head & taillights that are on all the time. I have had a few close calls, mainly people that don't realize I am going the pace of traffic, but no accidents yet, and i have been using this bike as a daily commuter for 3 months now. Safe or not safe, depends on your judgement. IMHO if you have good brakes, tires, frame and riding conditions plus a good dose of paranoia you should be ok.

 

[jag]

Thanks for the replys so far,but keep them coming
This Project will take a bit of time to do as and when funds allow the purchase of items,
I have no intention of running at 50 mph all the time,Its something i want to do as a achevment
After talking to MR Lyen I will be ordering one of his fine controllers a 12 x 4110 controller,This is the second item for the build,Having just got a new 26" Mountain Bike.
The next item on my shopping list will be the 5303 rear hub ,unless there is a faster motor out?
My thoughts on voltage were to run @60 or 72v
Not to sure about batterys yet as my battery building skills suck So any ideas are welcome.
Normal everyday running speed will be up to 25mph and Hopfull I will get a range of 15 miles,,,

For that motor to do 50mph crouched and with slick/semi-slick tires you need 75V and 70A to the motor. For a 0.1 Ohm Ri battery pack, that means battery pack voltage should be 75+70*.1 = 82V, 0.2 Ohm 89V etc.

IMHO if your everyday running speeds is up to 25mph it would make sense to build a light eBike with enjoyable handling for your everyday needs, and a completely different ebike for the ego-satisfying 50mph "I've done it" rides. Or enjoy the (brief) exhilaration of going downhill with a non-E bike without extra weight of motor and batteries turning handling into a dud.

 

[John in CR]

Thanks for the replys so far,but keep them coming
This Project will take a bit of time to do as and when funds allow the purchase of items,
I have no intention of running at 50 mph all the time,Its something i want to do as a achevment
After talking to MR Lyen I will be ordering one of his fine controllers a 12 x 4110 controller,This is the second item for the build,Having just got a new 26" Mountain Bike.
The next item on my shopping list will be the 5303 rear hub ,unless there is a faster motor out?
My thoughts on voltage were to run @60 or 72v
Not to sure about batterys yet as my battery building skills suck So any ideas are welcome.
Normal everyday running speed will be up to 25mph and Hopfull I will get a range of 15 miles,,,

For that motor to do 50mph crouched and with slick/semi-slick tires you need 75V and 70A to the motor. For a 0.1 Ohm Ri battery pack, that means battery pack voltage should be 75+70*.1 = 82V, 0.2 Ohm 89V etc.

IMHO if your everyday running speeds is up to 25mph it would make sense to build a light eBike with enjoyable handling for your everyday needs, and a completely different ebike for the ego-satisfying 50mph "I've done it" rides. Or enjoy the (brief) exhilaration of going downhill with a non-E bike without extra weight of motor and batteries turning handling into a dud.

Do that and the grandma bike will sit unused. Fast and powerful ebikes work fine going slower. Do you drive your car around at WOT all the time? Why should ebikes be any different, other than for the ridiculously restrictive laws? The exception to taking it slow being OK for a fast and powerful bike is going up hills, because unless you have some form of adjustable current limit, you can quickly fry a controller going up hills at partial throttle.

John

 

[kennya]

Here is about the the only thing i have found that would come close in a kit.
http://www.hyenaelectricbikes.com/

 

[kennya]

Click on featured product: Hadron mk IV. It's 4000 watts but i believe it's still at about the 43 mph mark.

 

[jag]

IMHO if your everyday running speeds is up to 25mph it would make sense to build a light eBike with enjoyable handling for your everyday needs, and a completely different ebike for the ego-satisfying 50mph "I've done it" rides. Or enjoy the (brief) exhilaration of going downhill with a non-E bike without extra weight of motor and batteries turning handling into a dud.

Do that and the grandma bike will sit unused. Fast and powerful ebikes work fine going slower. Do you drive your car around at WOT all the time? Why should ebikes be any different, other than for the ridiculously restrictive laws? The exception to taking it slow being OK for a fast and powerful bike is going up hills, because unless you have some form of adjustable current limit, you can quickly fry a controller going up hills at partial throttle.

John

The problem is not fast or powerful. The problem is that handling sucks for eBikes made by adding lots of weight to ordinary bike frames.

My first build was a 9C at 72V on a Spezialized Stumpjumper. Bike is one of the nicer rides before electrification, but adding 7kg of motor in the rear and 13kg of 2x36V batteries made it good for nothing except going straight on flat pavement. This is even though the batteries are in the triangle.

Second build is BMC based. Less than half the weight added on a much stiffer Cannondale Jekyll frame with the very nice lefty shock. I had originally planned for the same power as the 9C using a 48V battery in the triangle, but lately have been riding it with just a 36V battery giving up to 800W output power. I find I enjoy light and nimble more than heavy and powerful. Cutting added weight from 20kg to 10kg did wonders.

Third build will cut added weight in half once more by using RC components. Light motor and light batteries on a slightly lighter Cannondale Prophet frame.

Most of the high power eBike build I see are about as unrefined as the "muscle cars" of yesteryear. A car doesn't become a sports car by sticking a 1000hp V8 in something that drives like a boat. Same goes for adding an X5 and boatloads of batteries to a run-of-the-mill bicycle.

Jekyll build:

 

[Fenman]

Hi
There are some really good ideas coming out ,
This is a pic of the bike for the build,altho I may look out for a steel hardtail
It will be rear wheel drive 5303 or 5304
Going to go with Lyens controller,
The bit I am stuck on is the power,I would like 20c discharge
Any views on a A123 PACK @72V {cellman}

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I have done 56mph on a nice quality hardtail bike.
heres some specs:
BRAKES:Gatorbrake 6-piston with 185mm rotors. best $90 i have ever spent. http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydraulic-Disc-Brake-Set-Front-and-Rear-/120549437042?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c114e6e72
controller: Lyen 18-fet
motor: crystalyte 5304
battery: 24s 1p 5800Mah 30c HK lipo for 100.8v fully charged.

This bike has crazy flip-you-on-your-arse torque and will beat my friends golf to 30mph and my friends dodge ram to 45 mph.When i ride, i wear a motorcycle helmet, reflective vest, and have bright head & taillights that are on all the time. I have had a few close calls, mainly people that don't realize I am going the pace of traffic, but no accidents yet, and i have been using this bike as a daily commuter for 3 months now. Safe or not safe, depends on your judgement. IMHO if you have good brakes, tires, frame and riding conditions plus a good dose of paranoia you should be ok.

I will be going 18 Fet Lyen Overclocker, 72v nominal A123, {24s 10p 86v off the charger} and a 5304 in a 26" rim, so I guess I can expect similar performances, no?

 

[icecube57]

I have done 56mph on a nice quality hardtail bike.
heres some specs:
BRAKES:Gatorbrake 6-piston with 185mm rotors. best $90 i have ever spent. http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydraulic-Disc-Brake-Set-Front-and-Rear-/120549437042?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c114e6e72
controller: Lyen 18-fet
motor: crystalyte 5304
battery: 24s 1p 5800Mah 30c HK lipo for 100.8v fully charged.

This bike has crazy flip-you-on-your-arse torque and will beat my friends golf to 30mph and my friends dodge ram to 45 mph.When i ride, i wear a motorcycle helmet, reflective vest, and have bright head & taillights that are on all the time. I have had a few close calls, mainly people that don't realize I am going the pace of traffic, but no accidents yet, and i have been using this bike as a daily commuter for 3 months now. Safe or not safe, depends on your judgement. IMHO if you have good brakes, tires, frame and riding conditions plus a good dose of paranoia you should be ok.

I will be going 18 Fet Lyen Overclocker, 72v nominal A123, {24s 10p 86v off the charger} and a 5304 in a 26" rim, so I guess I can expect similar performances, no?

You will be slower. You voltage will be holding around the mid 70s while his pack will be in the low 90s for most of his ride.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Ah Ok thanks for that ICE!

 

[bosnimf]

I have done 56mph on a nice quality hardtail bike.
heres some specs:
BRAKES:Gatorbrake 6-piston with 185mm rotors. best $90 i have ever spent. http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydraulic-Disc-Brake-Set-Front-and-Rear-/120549437042?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c114e6e72
controller: Lyen 18-fet
motor: crystalyte 5304
battery: 24s 1p 5800Mah 30c HK lipo for 100.8v fully charged.

This bike has crazy flip-you-on-your-arse torque and will beat my friends golf to 30mph and my friends dodge ram to 45 mph.When i ride, i wear a motorcycle helmet, reflective vest, and have bright head & taillights that are on all the time. I have had a few close calls, mainly people that don't realize I am going the pace of traffic, but no accidents yet, and i have been using this bike as a daily commuter for 3 months now. Safe or not safe, depends on your judgement. IMHO if you have good brakes, tires, frame and riding conditions plus a good dose of paranoia you should be ok.

Could you give a link of the site you bought your batteries from?

 

[GTR2EBIKE]

Could you give a link of the site you bought your batteries from?

+1 I would love an OTS 100V battery

 

[Farfle]

I got my batteries from HK, heres a link: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10870 . They are about $100 per and i use 3 in series, get about 15+/- range on a 5304. to balance them, I don't have an active BMS per-say, I use a hobby balancing charger and the controllers LVC to keep them in check, and it seems to work just fine. a 24s 1p pack with these cells gives you around 500 Watt/hr with the capability of 13 kw discharge cont. and 18 kw burst. which is alotta power : )

 

[Fenman]

Cool I have gone from SLA to aPing pack with bms built in so all of this is new to me,
a few quiestions
Are the Turnigy cells easy to keep in balance? is there a lot of diffrence between Hi discharge A123 cells and Turnigy?
How many charges would either type take before there was a drop in power?
The range has to be about 20miles at normal speed but prhaps the odd fun burst
is there any advantage over one type than the outher?