On law enforcement, generally.

[Joe Perez]

One thing has struck me as a bit odd over the past year or so that I've been browsing this form. Specifically, I've seen a low of discussion of the various laws concerning e-bike usage (eg, power limitation, speed limitation) in the specific context of people desiring to add "Cop Mode" switches (or similar) to their bikes, or to simply construct them to be fully legal outright, in the fear that they might be stopped by the police and required to demonstrate the legality of their vehicles. This seems to be a universal concern, both in the US where I live, and in the European nations and elsewhere.

Does this ever actually happen?

I ask seriously. Perhaps my perspective is biased through the lens of Southern California, but down here at least, I cannot imagine a law-enforcement officer taking the slightest bit of interest in my bike. Granted, we seem to have a much higher number of bicycle commuters here than in most US cities, but on the whole, bicyclists seem to be invisible to both LEOs and to the general public. Unless an officer happened to see me cruising down the freeway at 90 MPH on my bike, it's hard for me to envision a scenario in which they'd even bother to speak to me, much less take an interest in whether my bike is capable of operating a such-and-such a power level.

For that matter, I spend a fair amount of time working in Manhattan, and despite the fact that e-bikes seem to be totally prohibited by NY state law, I have never seen more e-bikers in one place. And they seem to follow the same set of rules as other bicyclists, which is to say that they completely ignore frivolous concepts such as one-way streets, red lights, pedestrian right-of-way, and so on. Doesn't seem to be a bother for them.

Or is this only a concern where e-bikes are operated in more "pedestrian" cities with high population densities and yet relatively little automotive traffic, in which law enforcement officers have little else to occupy their time? I can perhaps envision an e-biker in Bremen or Groningen drawing attention to themselves, simply by contrasting with the large indigenous population of non-electric bikes owing to their speed and visual distinctiveness.

 

[bluegoatwoods]

My feeling is that if law enforcement is interested at all it is in specific localities. Perhaps those places with a lot of tourists and a lot of bicycles. And not necessarily even there.

A handful of years back, before my state passed a law recognising motored bikes as nothing more than bicycles, I built a 2-stroke gasoline powered bike. Rode it for a couple of years and the police never gave it a second look.
My local police know me and those in neighboring cities came to recognize me. Never a bit of trouble from them.

Now I'm finding that the same is true for my e-bike. They might not have figured out just what it is yet. But I don't think it'll matter even then. They just don't view me as anyone they need to hassle.

I've seen people in other forums, and maybe this one, who insist that the police are Nazis where powered bikes are concerned. I haven't found it to be so. I think there must be some kind of difference between us. My suspicion? Speed. I think that the police view a 30 mph bike as unsafe for the rider (though they might even respect his freedom of choice) but also for the auto traffic who are likely to be sprayed with the debris when this rider disintegrates. This is really just speculation, but it seems to me to make sense.

I ride at about 10 to 12 mph and I'll approach 20 when the road is smooth and wide open. The police don't bother me and I suspect this is mostly the reason.

 

[Lessss]

First get to know real police behaviour http://www.reddit.com/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut/new/

police have a way of doing "crack downs" aka some chiefs' or politician's wife somewhere gets her panties in a bunch over something and then......cops pulling cyclists over right and even further to the right. Currently NY is doing an ebike crackdown.

 

[captain387]

Yesterday I was trying to back out of my driveway, looked up my street where there is a small 3 way intersection.
I saw a plastic ebike coming to a stop at the stop sign and a cop car following.
Waiting because I knew there wouldn't be enough time to back out safely, I watched the ebike come to what looked like from my vantage point a complete stop and then continued towards my driveway.
I saw the cop gun it and throw on the lights, the man on the ebike didn't notice it; then the sirens came on. Still the older gentleman assumed it wasn't for him, the cop passed him and started cutting him off when the guys realized and finally pulled over.

The man on the ebike looked to be in his fifty's, had his safety gear on, helmet, gloves, shoes. It looked he shopped at sears : )
It shocked me to see someone who looked like the perfect spokesperson for ebikes getting pulled over.

The irony of this situation is that there are a few "boys" who ride their sport bikes constantly down the street. When going by my house it looks like they are doing over 80 km/h on the 400m section between stop signs.

I will try to meet up with the fellow who got pulled over and see what he was stopped for.

 

[cal3thousand]

In LA, cops are too busy doing "other things" (which vary and should be a topic for another day) to pull over an ebiker, unless they were being outwardly dangerous. I can see the other cops just ragging on an officer that wasted time with an e-bike.

They don't seem to even mess with the ICE guys that are clearly running more than legal sized motors. BTW, I kicked the crap out of a 66cc "lowrider" yesterday from a light. Had to pedal my ass off with the motor, but his reaction was worth the sweat. Reminds me that I need to mod my controller. 8)

 

[d8veh]

In the UK the police don't seem to take any interest in them. A problem might arise if someone were hurt in an accident, where the police might want to check that the bike is legal. There was a bit of discussion about this on the Pedelecs forum, and then by coincidence shortly afterwards there were a couple of reports where accidents had happened and the police were said to be prosecuting the ebikers; however, several months later there has never been any follow up, so I suspect that the stories weren't true.

 

[Ykick]

NYC enforcement is spotty and mostly targeted towards the Vespa looking bikes. 26" wheel delivery riders face very little LE action unless they do something really stupid and dangerous. Cops here don't really care and in fact seem to appreciate that those on eBikes often stop at lights and signs compared to pedal folks. We also don't hold up traffic as much as pedal bikes. Cops that stand in an intersection all day know full well the most dangerous vehicles in the city are cars/trucks.

Young lady killed by a dump truck couple days ago, 14th & Broadway. Michael Mckean broken leg last week by a car on the upper west side. Drunk woman drives completely through a house on Long Island over the weekend. eBikes don't do those things often, if ever.

My only run-in with LE was one early morning riding through Central Park they stopped me because the park was closed but they didn't pay any attention to my fairly obvious eBike.

 

[Dauntless]

Well, since testing your bike would give them the chance to prove you were legal, they won't let you test it. Isn't it amazing that the exact opposite of your constitutional guarantee is the way it's done in America?

Now, what will REALLY happen is you won't be in court because your bike wasn't legal. You'll be in court because you did something where your bike would have to be illegal, but it is YOU on trial and not the bike. They're not going to let you prove the bike couldn't do it.

Always remember, you are not accused of whatever traffic violation, you are accused of RECEIVING the ticket. The cop has to prove he gave you the ticket in a legal manner and you have to prove it wasn't you. Ooops. Guess what? I STILL win tickets, because I know what I'm doing, such as proving the cop is committing perjury writing the ticket. The "Knowledgeable Citizen" video you watch on YouTube is BUNK! These people are delusional. But when a cop has just made a statement that he pulled me over and I had put my seatbelt on after he stopped me, but I follow saying I stopped on my own about 150 feet from where the motorcycle officer had been stopped and was getting out on my own as he finally managed to ride up, (Obviously didn't have the belt on when he came over if I'm out of the car) he's caught playing on the confidence of the judge and just lost that game. I'd been his random choice to get himself caught up on his 'Performance Allocation' or whatever name they're using that week (Quota is illegal) and he blew it. Couldn't be bothered to think on his feet and change his made up story to something closer to reality. He'd decided what he'd say about the driver he picked out before I came along and simply stuck with it.

Of course I live in a city where a longtime desk jockey LAPD officer who couldn't get ahead there came and became our chief, turning our town into a 'Robocop' movie. The guy gave some shocking speeches when he spoke publicly. (If you ever want to hear some great SWAT fantasies. . . .) Now that they beat that homeless guy to death, officer behavior improved greatly, of course that chief was gone more than a year by then and didn't take the rap in office. THAT is your real story on law enforcement generally. Do they feel emboldened to act out? If so the worst in them will rise to the top. When one of them screws up bad enough (The fool cop was making no sense to a mentally ill man and wanting to use that as an excuse to beat him up after what has been proven to be a DELIBERATELY false complaint was made) suddenly the rest of the department stops behaving as though they have criminal records theselves and we get a bunch of boy scouts on patrol. That chief had made it to the city council but is facing recall next week.

 

[veloman]

Gratefully, things are the way they should be, for the most part. Last night I was on a main arterial 4 lane road at 33mph taking the lane going with traffic. Cop was waiting in the center turn lane to turn left. At first I said "crap" and dropped it 5mph as I passed and did some fast pedaling. But reality is that I wasn't doing anything dangerous, and they didn't care obviously.

I hope things stay this way. Though, I mainly stick to 22-26mph for efficiency and being nice to the motor in this heat. All depends on traffic though. I definitely make more of a stop than other cyclists at stop signs.

 

[dogman dan]

In my locale, the local road racers often travel up to 30 mph. So I pretty much get ignored by cops and everybody else up to 30 mph. I doubt anybody is even thinking I'm motorized.

At 45 mph though, every car I pass has somebody doing this at me. No doubt a cop would do the same thing if I wizzed by on the race bike the same way.

Keep it 25-30 mph here, and you'll only get noticed for laying on the street with your head torn off by an suv.

 

[Pure]

Location location location.

Here cops pretty much ignore me. Like Dog said, as long as I stay under 30mph they could care less, but pass one doing 45 and he might want to know wtf you got going on with that bike. Now less than 10 miles to my east is Jacksonville beach. Even though it is part of Jacksonville, they have their own police dept. IMo they are extremely overstaffed. Cops out there are bored as f*ck and looking for sh*t to do. I know for a fact they hassle ebikes. Even then, as long as you don't do anything stupid, like running 30MPH on the board walk you should be fine. The chances are still pretty good one is going to stop you just to check you out though.

I happen to know a cop out there (married into the fam) who tells us stories of them being bored and following a car, waiting for them to toss a cig out the window, so they can pull them. Usually this ends in a search of the car and the people in it.

 

[MadRhino]

Here they are after E-scooters in the bike path, that is their only concern about Ebikes. On the street they don't care unless you act like a jerk or deliberately run a red light right in front of them. I feel comfortable passing a patrol car at 35 Mph on a 25 Mph limit street, never been bothered about it.

 

[Cargo_Tom]

Here bicycles and mopeds share the bikelanes. Cops do legality spotchecks on mopeds and bikes near institutions of learning several times a year. Moped tuning is illegal but a popular pasttime, so dedicated task forces will bring equipment with them to do testing (breaking power tests, dyno to measure top speed, light intensity meters etc).

Bikes will mainly be hassled about lights during the winter season. Since this is lycra-land ebikes are usually low-power kit bikes sold to the elderly, and are not seen as a menace yet.

Regardless, I expect to be pulled over a couple of times a year, and want the bike to be able to pass muster at a glance.
-Tom

 

[Joe Perez]

So thus far, most everything I'm seeing mirrors my own expectations. I'm rather surprised to hear Cargo_Tom say that the police in his area are actually equipped with a dyno to judge the legality of scooters and e-bikes, though I do realize that as a whole, most European nations do tend to have a higher degree of familiarity and awareness of bicycles and small motorcycles than we do in the US, so it's not entirely surprising that law enforcement is more knowledgeable about them and better equipped to harass their owners.


But I'm still wondering whether anybody here in the US has actually ever been stopped by the police and asked, roadside, to demonstrate the legality of their bike. I just have a hard time believing that most LEOs on the US (or their superiors) are really all that familiar with the e-bike laws in their state, much less that they care. With the exception of very large university campuses (eg, University of Florida) I have never really seen a police force take much of an interest in regulating the behavior of bicyclists.

 

[veloman]

Yeah, and I think if ebikers in the states were getting harassed for being >20mph we'd be hearing about it on this forum. I can't think of any speed related incidences. There are even riders on this forum who do haul ass and blow traffic signals and they never get stopped.

The reality is that ebikes and bicycles don't pose much of any threat to the community, unless they are flagrantly riding like an idiot (see NYC delivery bikes).


I don't even see any other well powered ebikes in my city (Austin TX), just my own. The ebikes here are 20mph Pedegos, or other off the shelf slow bikes, and there's a handful of gassers, but mainly they are ridden by guys who ride well/slow. It's really a non issue. If there is an issue here, it's definitely the normal bicycles being ridden without lights and blowing lights/ stop signs at full speed - that happens every day/night.

 

[Joe Perez]

The ebikes here are 20mph Pedegos, or other off the shelf slow bikes, and there's a handful of gassers, but mainly they are ridden by guys who ride well/slow.

That's the really funny thing.

Here in CA, we are known for our draconian smog laws. I was actually thwarted in my quest to purchase a margarita blender several years ago because it was powered by a 2-cycle engine, and the company selling them received a cease-and-desist order from the state.

That said, there's one fellow that lives near me who rides a big ole' cruiser with a 2-stroke gas engine. It appears to be fairly slow as compared to a high-powered ebike, but he rides in the bicycle lanes along with everyone else. The damn thing stinks to high heaven when it's running (which does not seem to endear him to the rest of the bicycling community) and yet he's apparently never gotten any hassle about it from the local fuzz.

Seeing thing like that really makes me question the paranoid undertones that I sense in some threads, to the effect of "OMG, what will I do if an officer stops me and wants to check whether I'm running at higher than 500w?" It seems like a highly irrational concern, given the general level of interest expressed in powered bicycles as a whole by LE in the US.

 

[cal3thousand]

Location location location.

Here cops pretty much ignore me. Like Dog said, as long as I stay under 30mph they could care less, but pass one doing 45 and he might want to know wtf you got going on with that bike. Now less than 10 miles to my east is Jacksonville beach. Even though it is part of Jacksonville, they have their own police dept. IMo they are extremely overstaffed. Cops out there are bored as f*ck and looking for sh*t to do. I know for a fact they hassle ebikes. Even then, as long as you don't do anything stupid, like running 30MPH on the board walk you should be fine. The chances are still pretty good one is going to stop you just to check you out though.

I happen to know a cop out there (married into the fam) who tells us stories of them being bored and following a car, waiting for them to toss a cig out the window, so they can pull them. Usually this ends in a search of the car and the people in it.

Location (jursidiction) is definitely key.

My in-laws live in Fernandina Beach. I bet it's way more lax there than in Jax Beach.

 

[cal3thousand]

Here bicycles and mopeds share the bikelanes. Cops do legality spotchecks on mopeds and bikes near institutions of learning several times a year. Moped tuning is illegal but a popular pasttime, so dedicated task forces will bring equipment with them to do testing (breaking power tests, dyno to measure top speed, light intensity meters etc).

Bikes will mainly be hassled about lights during the winter season. Since this is lycra-land ebikes are usually low-power kit bikes sold to the elderly, and are not seen as a menace yet.

Regardless, I expect to be pulled over a couple of times a year, and want the bike to be able to pass muster at a glance.
-Tom

If I were a cop in your area, I would just let you go because you look like a Viking

 

[Joe Perez]

If I were a cop in your area, I would just let you go because you look like a Viking

You should see the cops!

 

[Stone Meadow]

Here in CA, we are known for our draconian smog laws. I was actually thwarted in my quest to purchase a margarita blender several years ago because it was powered by a 2-cycle engine, and the company selling them received a cease-and-desist order from the state.

That said, there's one fellow that lives near me who rides a big ole' cruiser with a 2-stroke gas engine. It appears to be fairly slow as compared to a high-powered ebike, but he rides in the bicycle lanes along with everyone else. The damn thing stinks to high heaven when it's running (which does not seem to endear him to the rest of the bicycling community) and yet he's apparently never gotten any hassle about it from the local fuzz.

There is a disconnect between our 'vehicle code', which the police enforce, and which engines CARB will permit to be sold in the state. As far as the police are concerned, you're a bicycle if you comply with Section 406...less than 2 hp and max speed of 30 mph. Gas or electric, the cops don't care.

On the other hand, CARB's weirdness only starts with engines... :lol:

For instance, I read on their website (can't find it right now) that they don't regulate engines under 50cc that aren't installed in something. The eliminates your mixer, but does nothing to stop someone installing a small 2-stroke in their bike frame and tooling around. It also allows for bikes like this one to be built and sold here in Cali...

 

[GrayKard]

Got pulled over last night on the way home. The cop said "I didn't know what you were riding, a bike, a moped, or what so that's why I stopped you." Then he looks at the bike and said the tail light is not right. I ask if it's not bright enough and he replies that it's too low. I tell him no problem I can raise it.

He never mentioned anything about it being an ebike or speed issues (I was doing maybe 25 at the time) but warned me that people were driving a bit erratically tonight and to be careful. I thanked him and was on my way.

When I got home I checked the tail light from various distances and it looked good but I raised it up anyway since I had lowered it a few weeks ago when I was running with a rear fender.

During the whole conversation with the cop he was very polite and even asked me how I was doing. Pretty much how it's gone any time police have taken an interest in me on the bike.

Gary

 

[smudger1956]

In the UK the police don't seem to take any interest in them. A problem might arise if someone were hurt in an accident, where the police might want to check that the bike is legal. There was a bit of discussion about this on the Pedelecs forum, and then by coincidence shortly afterwards there were a couple of reports where accidents had happened and the police were said to be prosecuting the ebikers; however, several months later there has never been any follow up, so I suspect that the stories weren't true.

Same in my area, although, if I rode like a nutter in certain area's I would probably get a tug, I have had a bike cop pull up along side me at the lights and gave me a nod, don't know if he was nodding in approval of my bike, or that I was waiting at a red... :lol:
Seen a fare few of the Lycra Brigade pulled over, always after junctions with lights, and the majority pulled over by unmarked cars, we seem to have a lot of those in my area, so my riding I keep it 'under the radar'.

 

[Phoebus]

I suppose that Scandinavian cities, dense and designed for walking as they are, would be more conducive to inspection checkpoints. I can't imagine something similar being pulled off in any typical sprawling American city. A team of cops could camp the busiest intersection all day and see only one ebike.

The only times I've ever been stopped by a cop whilst (human powered) bicycling were, oddly enough, in Amsterdam (Scandinavian-esque-ish?). Three cops staked out a busy bike lane, checking for proper bike light usage. The other, a cop stopped me for riding in a pedestrian only area. This blew my mind - I've never seen a cyclist in California obey any traffic law of any kind at any time ever.

 

[Lessss]

GrayKard

Got pulled over last night on the way home. The cop said "I didn't know what you were riding, a bike, a moped, or what so that's why I stopped you."

Translation he had NO JUSTIFICATION to pull you over.
Were you taking the lane or riding on the side of the road?
Do bicycles where you are require a rear light?? Where I am they only require a rear reflector.

 

[Should be working]

In Germany I got pulled over (on my non-e-bike) for turning right on red from normal waiting position on a regular street to a sidewalk-bike-lane (those exist there: they are a little brick path built next to the sidewalk). Cops came out of a van to tell me it wasn't allowed. I was polite, asked why, they explained it was because a pedestrian could have been crossing the street and would need to cross the bike path to get to the sidewalk of the street I was crossing onto. Hilarious. I pretended not to speak any German (which I do quite well), expressed gratitude for their having clarified the rules to me, and they let me go.