Overvolting the Green E-wheels (Aussie bike) COMPLETED!

dazzassj6

100 W
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
102
Location
Sydney, Australia
hi, im new here. I have a problem because i bought an electric bike with a 200watt brushless hub motor attached to the rear wheel. ANd i figured it mite be too slow(25km/hr on flat), so now i want a 36v 500w brushless hub motor. Is it possible just changing the motor or do i have to get a new wheel as well to fit it in.

How do you even fit in a new motor anyways? OR should i get a whole new wheel with motor attached? although the motor itself is cheaper. Dont want to spend too much though.

would a listed 500w motor necessarily make it go significantly faster? cuz i think on ebay the sellers exaggerate how fast the 500w motor can go.

i need some help thanks!
 
I agree, most bike hubmotors can go at least 700 watts by changing controller and battery.
 
yeh 40km/hr is enough for me, that is the speed i reakon is the limit for safety for bikes.

Well if i get a new battery then it'll cost me heaps and i wouldnt know how i am going to mount the new battery either. What do you guys do with ur old batteries?
mines a 36v 10ah Li-ion, dont think its LiFePO4 though.

heres a picture of my bike i bought from ebay

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heres the battery, the controller is under the battery

am i suppose to just change the batteries inside the casing right?
 
You could put the new motor in the wheel you have, but it requires new spokes, and the cost of having re-laced if you can't do it your self. the spokes usualy go for $40 a set here, and another $50 labor to swap a hub.
Or you can buy a new motor with the wheel for usualy around $50 more than just the motor, sometimes even less.

But, Most motors used on E bikes are under rated for legal reasons. if your motor is rated at 200 watts, it should be able to handle at least 400 watts, and probably a lot more.

Actually, I'm interested in finding a 200 watt rear hub motor for my next project. Do you have any information about it, or pictures of it?
 
I agree ! I'd look at the battery! If its 36 volts, then even at 10 amps it is over the watt limit almost double! Please show pictures of the battery, since that holder looks quite large! Also any markings on the motor and controller would be helpful.
otherDoc
 
thanks guys

heres a closer picture of the hub motor.

31da_12.JPG


If its 36 volts, then even at 10 amps it is over the watt limit almost double!

what do u mean? i dont even know wat my amps is. So if i have already doubled my limit then shouldnt that mean if i use 48v it wont work?
 
Hi,
I just got the same bike a few weeks ago and so far very happy with it.. but yes a bit more grunt would always be nice, though I'm going to leave mine stock for now as so far it's getting me where I want to go. Now using it to replace my car for the 22km (round trip) ride to work.
I have been compiling a bit of info and experiences on it at my blog (URL in sig).
 
dazzassj6 said:
thanks guys

heres a closer picture of the hub motor.

31da_12.JPG


If its 36 volts, then even at 10 amps it is over the watt limit almost double!

what do u mean? i dont even know wat my amps is. So if i have already doubled my limit then shouldnt that mean if i use 48v it wont work?

Well, U R in Oz! U have a 200 watt motor limit for power out, not counting legs. Just running at 36 volts pulls 360 watts! This is legal talk and really has nothing to do with the "real" power a motor can use. Most power situations on a pre built bike rest with the batts and controllers. If U want more power, those are the places to look to first, B4 changing the motor. Incidentally, that motor looks suspiciously like a Bafang, which has many threads on overvolting in this forum!
otherDoc
 
ok after much researching i have decided what to do.

I wont change my 36v 10ah li-ion battery. But I will change my controller. Right now my motor is labelled as a 200w motor but its a Bafang motor. But we know that this 200w is actually underated for legal reasons. So the only thing i think is limiting me might be the controller. Do you guys agree? Could it be a 36v 200w controller? I mean if i have a 36v 10ah battery, i should be getting 360w of power. But my current flat speed is only 25km/h

Do you guys think i've made a right choice to change the controller? because i really dont want to change the battery or the motor.

Also what would be the ideal controller to get? would a 36v 350w be better? or a 36v 500w be better?

Another point is I've read on this forum that people can use a 48v controller with a 36v battery? how does that make sense?! I dont get it
 
You can't use a 48v controller with a 36v battery (unless you mod the controller).

The Low Voltage Cutout will be set at 42v. The battery will charge to about 41v. So it no go...

I've ridden your bike (Duncan's one) and it's pretty good...for a legal bike.

If I had one I would be putting 12 or 24v in series with the 37v battery, and fitting a 48v controller (or a 72v controller with modded LVC for 60v).

I did something similar - I stuck 12v 10Ah worth of lipos in series with my 37v battery, and fitted a 48v controller to my originally 250w setup.


The motor can take heaps - Knuckles has run it at 72v 30 amps....till someone opened the throttle with the brakes on and stripped the gears.


Oh, and if I owned that bike I'd eventually fit new forks and new brakes. Upgraditus will get you in the end ;)
 
nice tips Mark_A_W , do you have photos of your bike? i especially want to see how you wired an extra 12v to the 36v pack. Because my battery is in a case how am i suppose to stick extra wires to the inside?

anyways, today i took my controller out and had a look what it is and here it is.

IMGP4385.jpg

IMGP4386.jpg
Casing for the controller

IMGP4388.jpg
I dont know what it says since its in chinese any help???

IMGP4389.jpg
i dont know what this number is but i took it anyways
 
I would say that is a 500 watt controller :wink: 36v x 16a = 576w with the 31v as your cut-off voltage. Blessings, Snow Crow
 
Another 12 volts of Lithium should light its performance up! Show us a pic of the controller insides to see if the components will take nominal 48 volts. U will then have to consider LVC and there are ways to do that too. The easiest is with a Wattmeter and your eyes!
otherDoc
 
yeh thanks i found that already.

Im just thinking now.

Since my controller right now is a 36v 500w with 16amp, Should i get a 36v controller with a higher wattage rating? but I dont know how much that would increase my speed by. Does anyone have an estimate?

I know that 48v increases heaps, but the problem is, i gotta get a new controller aswell as a new 12v Li-ion battery, which i have no idea how to rig up.

So either i get a 36v 800w for now or a 12v li-ion battery with a 48v 800w to 1000w controller.
 
I'm in the same boat as you mate. I have a "200w" hub thats running on a 36v 16amp controller and yeah with a top speed of under 25km/hr it's pretty lame.
I'm looking at the 72v 1000w ecrazyman controller with the LVC mod so it runs on 48v. Still, I'm running on about 40v now so if voltage = speed I'm not sure bumping it up the 48v is going to do much in the grand scheme of things...
I'd like to be able to do 35-40ks unassisted.
 
The change from 40v (36v charged) to 54v (48v charged) is huge!
 
I think I can shed some light on this for you, daz.

Your controller is indeed a 36v 16amp brushless controller. Now, electrically, that's a peak power of 576w, and the 250w rating is purely cosmetic. I highly doubt that you're using any more than half of that current with your current setup. At that mind-numbing speed of 25kph, you'll be using only 150watts (at the wheel), or approximately 5 amps.

Now, volts give you speed, amps give you thrust. That thrust is useful for climbing hills, accelerating, and (only at high speeds) fighting really nasty wind resistance. If you want more speed, you need more voltage. If you replace your current controller with a 36v "500w" or "800w" controller, the only difference will be the controller's maximum current limit. Since your controller is able to supply more current than you can use at 36v, you will see exactly zero speed increase on flat ground. None.

The easiest thing to do is add more voltage. A 12v 10ah battery, preferably of the same chemistry as your 36v10ah battery, is the simplest solution. And the wiring is really, really simple.



See this plug? It connects your battery to the controller; the red wire is positive (+36v) and the black wire is neutral (Ground). What you want to do, when you have your second 12v battery is splice it in there. Disconnect the red wire. Connect the red wire from your main (36v) battery to the black wire of your small (12v) battery. Then connect the red wire of the small (12v) battery to the red wire on the controller. That sort of connection puts the batteries in series, meaning that their voltages add. If you measure the new arrangement with a voltmeter (which you should before connecting it to the controller), if you have it right it will read around 48v, or the sum of the two batteries' voltages.

Now, your controller may or may not handle that voltage. Let me explain about the different controller voltages: not counting the LVC (I'll get to that later), a higher voltage controller can almost always be run on a lower voltage battery. Many 72v controllers will work with batteries as low as 20v. The other way, though, is a little riskier. If you use a higher voltage battery with a lower voltage controller, it may destroy the controller. All controllers have to have some headroom (most "36v" batteries will be at least 40v hot off the charger, so the controller has to withstand 40v), but some more than others. It all depends on the components used inside the controller. In many cases, a "36v" controller can be used with a 48v battery (several manufacturers use almost exactly the same design and components for both their 36v and 48v controllers, since it's easier to produce them that way). I give it a 75% chance that your controller is fine as long as you don't go over 60v. If you are willing to open the controller and take some real close up pictures of its guts, we can say with much more certainty.

If your controller can't handle 48v, you'll know pretty quickly. You might hear a "pop" from inside it, smoke might come out, and (obviously) it won't work when you turn the throttle, and it'll happen within a few seconds of connecting it to the 48v battery and giving it some throttle. If it dies, you'll need to buy a new controller; thankfully they aren't very expensive nowadays. You of course want a 48v controller, and pretty much any power rating will be fine. 20a and 30a ones are common, most likely labeled "750w" :mrgreen:

If an upgrade to 48v does work, given that you can do 25kph at 36v, you can expect to be able to do 33kph at 48v. At that speed, it'll feel like a different beast, especially how much more wind you feel rushing by. It's exhilarating. You''ll also notice that you can accelerate faster, which helps give the bike a real sensation of "power".

So, hope that clarified things for you. Any questions?
 
wow! thanks lazarus2405!

that was a great advice you gave me there. It really cleared alot of things up and simplified alot of things too for me.

One question, why is only using 5amp when the controller says 16amps? what could be limiting this? Is this normal?

Anyways first of all i gotta double check if that connector you circled was in fact the power cable. But i believe you're right anyways. 2nd I will try to take some photos of the inside of the controller tomorow, its just that putting back all the wires into that small controller box is so damn hard.

Another issue i have is the controllers. I was looking at controllers before and it seems like some controllers have different connectors! How can i connect them to the plugs i already have?? I dont even know which ones are right. Or is controllers plugs usually universal with all other ebike parts?

Also i have trouble finding a 12v 10aH Li-ion battery. I tried those RC Li-po ones but their connectors are different and the aH seems to be low, but there was some which was up to 8aH but requires you to buy another $200 charger for it.

anyways thanks again lazarus! pics coming tomoro
 
One question, why is only using 5amp when the controller says 16amps? what could be limiting this? Is this normal?

The controller will try to draw whatever current it needs to maintain the speed you select with the throttle. If you start to go up a hill, the amps being drawn will increase, since it takes more power to climb. If you have a strong wind at your back, the current draw will fall, since the tailwind lowers the load on the motor. This is normal.

The 16a rating is the controller's limit. If you climb a very steep hill, the controller will max out at 16a. If that isn't enough power to climb that hill at the speed you were at before the hill, the motor will bog down until it reaches tthe speed it can maintain. If you have trouble with hills or wind or if you acceleration iis too slow for your taste, a higher current controller may be a useful upgrade.

There are tons of connectors out there, and no one seems to use the same types. I like Anderson Powerples (powerwerx.com), but if you're using low amperages you can use any number of connector type from your local hardware store

Same goes for the RC batteries. They're most likely using Deans connectors You can cut them off and use whatever connector you like.

As for sizes, you can wire them in parallel. Say you can only find 5Ah packs. You could then connect the two together, red wire to red, black to black, and then they will act as one 10Ah battery. Then you can take that pack and follow the instructions in my previous post. With those two techniques, wiring in parallel and in series, you can make any voltage and capacity battery. Just remember that parallel adds capacity, series adds voltage.
 
Daz, my build is here, with some shots of my booster lipos (4 x 2600mAh in parallel, then that in series with main pack) using Deans connectors.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1533

I have 4 x $15 chargers to charge them.

And I had to get a new controller, my 36v one had 50v fets. 48v battery is 54v off the charger....

Also both the 36v and 48v controllers had 50v capacitors, I changed them to 63v.

Mark
 
thanks mark. Where did you buy ur RC batteries from?

I went over my friends place today and checked out his RC multi charger along with his RC Li-ion 12v 3600mah pack. They are pretty compact.

Also i opened my battery case for the 2nd time to get a good look at how it was wired. I was thinking to drill 2 hole on the top of the casing so i can add the 2 wires from the booster pack back into the main battery pack and then just the main battery in series from the wires inside. However that'll mean i'll have to have the 2 batteries stuck together, thinking of mounting the booster pack on the carrier when i get one.

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you see that thick red wire in there? im thinking to split that and add the 2 wires from the booster pack by having 2 holes in the casing. Is that a stupid idea?

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Here's the RC charger im planning to buy from my friend, but it charges 11v to 18v so i dont know....but it can charge SLA, nimh/nicad/li-ion/li-po anything!

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it uses this connector for the RC battery is this anderson? i dont know what it is.
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for SLA
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Image591.jpg

batteries connector.
 
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