Overvolting the Green E-wheels (Aussie bike) COMPLETED!

ok i just found these li-po batteries but not sure if they are too powerful or not.

im looking at:

2 x 2 cell 7.4v 10aH 12C Lipo batteries. its about 530gm each.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk89/baqiest/Parts/10000mAh.jpg?t=1215595694

Im waiting for his reply if he can rig it up in parallel for me before he sends it.

i was looking at another which was 7.4v at 5aH. But if i doubled that it would be around the same price as this 10aH one. But does it matter if i picked the 10aH one?
yeh my main battery is only 10aH, that means if i rig it up with this booster pack it would become 50.8v 30aH, i dont know the amp discharge from my main battery though. Does anyone know what the 12C mean? is 12C too powerful ?
 
The connector in the pic is a Molex. They usually do not handle e-bike amps or volts very well. I would change it to Anderson or Deans connectors.
I've had several Molex melt down and one burst into flame. Not my favorate :shock:
otherDoc
 
The connector is a molex...

The first battery looks to be NiMH to me, not Lipo...

The 2nd battery is only 7.4v - you want at least 11.1, and 14.8 (2 x the one you showed) would be good....

The charger doesn't have a balancer....


Just get some $20 Lipos from ebay, parallel them up, and as many E-sky balancing chargers as you need, they are $15 each - I have four for my 4 lipos.


But be warned, my main lithium pack is now dead after 1 year. Adding the booster pack means I have pushed more current out of it, shortening it's life.

And you need to know what FETs and CAPS your controller has.


Mark
 
dazzassj6 said:
ok i just found these li-po batteries but not sure if they are too powerful or not.

im looking at:

2 x 2 cell 7.4v 10aH 12C Lipo batteries. its about 530gm each.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk89/baqiest/Parts/10000mAh.jpg?t=1215595694

Im waiting for his reply if he can rig it up in parallel for me before he sends it.

i was looking at another which was 7.4v at 5aH. But if i doubled that it would be around the same price as this 10aH one. But does it matter if i picked the 10aH one?
yeh my main battery is only 10aH, that means if i rig it up with this booster pack it would become 50.8v 30aH, i dont know the amp discharge from my main battery though. Does anyone know what the 12C mean? is 12C too powerful ?


Okay, a few things. You want your booster pack to be either 3 or 4 cell (11.1v or 14.8v). To use the "2 x 2 cell 7.4v 10aH 12C Lipo batteries", you want them wired in series, not parallel. Series adds voltage (V), parallel adds capacity (Ah).

If you got 4x 7.4v 5Ah packs and wired them correctly you would have pretty much the same thing as 2x 7.4v 10Ah packs, wired in series for 14.8v. Electrically they're be very similar. However, if they cost just as much, you might as well go with the two larger ones than four smaller ones, since they will need less wiring, involve a little less complexity, and hopefully be slightly more compact.

With a small booster pack, you don't need to worry about weight. Those RC LiPos are designed for airplanes, and if you're putting it up in the air you often need to know the weight down to the gram. For a bike, where after frame, motor, batteries, and rider it'll definitely weigh over 100kg, 500g is nothing. :p

And, importantly, about the amp discharge. The most important thing you need to remember is that any RC LiPos are going to be able to discharge more amps than your main battery. As long as your main battery is safe, your booster pack will be more than fine. It would be prudent to find out how many amps your main battery can safely provide. Try to find out what sort of cells are in your main battery. Look for any numbers and markings, note the shape of the cells (rectangles, cylinders, flat like LiPos, ets). Take pictures and post them here, and we can do our best to tell you what you have.

Let me explain the C ratings. The higher the C, the more amps the battery can safely provide. The C rating, multiplied by the capacity in Ah, is how much current the battery can provide (in Amps). So a 12C 5Ah battery is good for 60 amps (which is a whole lot). Even with high-powered 40mph+ ebikes, using more than 50A is uncommon. The flip side of the C rating is it tells you how fast you can drain a battery. A 1C battery shouldn't be discharged in less than one hour, a 2C shouldn't be drained in less than half an hour, and so on. A 10Ah 12C battery, though, can be safely fully discharged in as few as (60min/12C=) 5 minutes, and for those five minutes can provide (10Ahx12C=)120 amps! That is great for large planes, though, when you might need a lot of power for a very short flight.

C ratings are maximums. Just because a 12C battery can be safely discharged in 5 minutes doesn't mean you have to or want to; you could just as well slowly drain it so that it only runs out of juice after a few hours. If your main battery is, say 2C, and your booster pack is 12C, your booster won't be "too powerful" to work with the main battery, as long as you don't need more amps than the main battery can give.
 
hey lazarus i did post up my main battery in the post above, its that blue rectangle thing in the black casing.

as long as you don't need more amps than the main battery can give.

how can i control this? by not accelerating too much?
 
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize that that was your main pack... thought it was a friend's LiPo. Anyway, that red wire you mentioned might be the right one, it might not. How do you charge your main battery? Do you use the same wires to charge it as to discharge it?

And the controller will limit the amps for you. Since the controller has a limit of 16a, and the controller and battery came together (correct?), it's safe to assume that it's safe to draw 16a from it.

It's difficult to tell the type of cells used in the battery, since it's all heatshrinked. However, even low quality cells are good for 2C-3C. I wouldn't worry about it unless you buy a controller with a higher current limit.
 
what would happen if i added a 12v 14amp SLA battery in series with my 36v 10ah Li-ion battery?

would the two different chemistries fuk it all up?
 
dazzassj6 said:
what would happen if i added a 12v 14amp SLA battery in series with my 36v 10ah Li-ion battery?

would the two different chemistries fuk it all up?

You have to stay with the same chemistry to have the same charge and discharge characteristics, if not, you will be building yourself big troubles :?

Blessings, Snow Crow
 
thanks snowcrow.

ok well i took my controller apart time and i see that the capacitor is 50v, and theres 2. There was a previous post where someone said u can overvolt it if they had a look inside. Also i found the model number for my controller which is KTW-PSF6 2007-3-3

IMG_9397.jpg

IMG_9402.jpg


Yeh and now its such a bitch to put all those wires back into the casing for the controller that came with the bike! I feel like suiciding when i look at it ....
 
Hi Guys
saw this thread a bit late, I have one of these greenwheels machines, good bit of kit for the money, everything works well out of the box. As I am also here in Australia with it's 200w limits hmmmm. firstly on power output of these machines, if you assume 90+% efficiency 36v x 15amps = 540w 90% is about 480w assuming the controller can really deliver the rated amps?
I have taken apart my controller to have a look, no problem with upgrading the caps to 63v but the fets (stp65nf06) are rated at 60v which is a little too close for comfort, correct me if I am wrong but I think voltage spikes can occur under load or acceleration which would exceed this from a 48v pack??
So like you, got the bug now and want just a little more top end speed. have recieved a ecrazyman controller 48v 30a, but instead of fitting it to my current greenwheels machine I am building a new one from scratch. Waiting on a bafang hub, as I like the freewheel and torque for size benefits.
When I received my controller I was surprised at it's size, it is twice the size of my current controller which makes it rather obvious on the bike, which only reinforces my belief that my old controller couldn't handle the increase to 48v!
anyway enough rambling if anyone has tried the voltage increase on this controller pls post results
any opinions appreciated
Mike
 
Update: w0o0o0o0o I received my ping battery and ecrazyman controller!

Wow it looks sooo complicated to put it all together. I bought 2 pairs of anderson powerpole connectors to link the 24v ping battery to my main battery.

Does anyone recommend me splicing the wire from the main battery?
Im planning to cut the red(positive) main internal wire that goes to the keyswitch. So its gonna be main then goes to 24v battery then the black wire of that goes back to the keyswitch so placing it between there.

Oh a second note i only found half of the connectors i needed.

this 24v 10ah ping battery is so light and small! I can almost fit it in my pocket hahaha


I just found another problem, that is overvolting to 60v might blow up my throttle indicators! Does anyone know if it will and if so how should i fix this?
 
OK SUCCESS
I have bumped up the voltage on my Greenwheels (aka bafang motor) Bike
the controller supplied is the weak point and limits the voltage and current capablities!(rated at 36v 15a)
I am using 12s lipo pack 4ah which may sound small but given it's 10c rating is proving to be a great choice!
12s pack nominal voltage 44.1v at 4ah (this pack is about the size of a water bottle and less than 1/2 the weight of the original lion pack)
voltage after charging 50v
after a 10km ride here are the stats using watts up meter
voltage minimum reached 38.91v (36v is the cutoff point)
maximum amps reached 16.24A (restricted by controller)
cruising current on flat 1.5 - 2A approx
64.5 watt/hour used
668.1watts maximum draw on battery (if you allow for 90% motor efficiency then motor output is over 600w :D )
Noticeable increase in usable power everything goes up 1 gear eg cruise in 5th and 6th now instead or 4th & 5th
climbs hills one gear up also
very pleased!
using for a couple of weeks now, controller seems to be holding up ok with no modification
I really do not see the need for any more power for my purposes!
 
m303625 said:
OK SUCCESS
I have bumped up the voltage on my Greenwheels (aka bafang motor) Bike
the controller supplied is the weak point and limits the voltage and current capablities!(rated at 36v 15a)
I am using 12s lipo pack 4ah which may sound small but given it's 10c rating is proving to be a great choice!
12s pack nominal voltage 44.1v at 4ah (this pack is about the size of a water bottle and less than 1/2 the weight of the original lion pack)
voltage after charging 50v
after a 10km ride here are the stats using watts up meter
voltage minimum reached 38.91v (36v is the cutoff point)
maximum amps reached 16.24A (restricted by controller)
cruising current on flat 1.5 - 2A approx
64.5 watt/hour used
668.1watts maximum draw on battery (if you allow for 90% motor efficiency then motor output is over 600w :D )
Noticeable increase in usable power everything goes up 1 gear eg cruise in 5th and 6th now instead or 4th & 5th
climbs hills one gear up also
very pleased!
using for a couple of weeks now, controller seems to be holding up ok with no modification
I really do not see the need for any more power for my purposes!

wow! nice to hear that you did it. Im charging my 24v ping battery right now, so how fast were you doing? So are you saying your total voltage was 44.1v ? Did you rig up the booster pack with the stock batteries?

Also i cant believe the controller didnt blow up. wait actually its rated up to 50v...
 
Ok im like 90% done with my new update, a new rack, 2 pairs of anderson, drill 2 holes in the battery casing for the wires, and thats it. The only thing im worried is a meltdown on the connectors, or i stuck in the wrong wire for the throttle wen changing the connectors.

Another major problem im thinking that i might need is placing 2 diodes between the 2 discharge wires of the two batteries. Fletch in his post said you need a voltage regular diode or else ur BMS might die. But i have no idea if i really need them or not.

Has anyone put diodes in their 2 bms batteries before when overvolting? Do i really need it?
 
FINALLY! IT IS FINISHED! thankyou to all you guys that helped me out, i really appreciate it and i will share the knowledge i learned from this forum with others in the future.

I just finished setting up my bike after a whole week of work, my flat speed now without pedalling is 44km/hr, with pedal is 49km/hr. I used to go up my street at 20km/hr on a hill, now it goes up the hill at 36km/hr!!!

I also managed to get the throttle battery indicator to work, but for some reason the green light (full) dropped down to yellow, i dont know if it was blown or maybe lost a bit of power there, it turned on before until i rode it.

I will post some pictures for you guys later. I learned everything from scratch, i had no knowledge about electronics when i started.

Meanwhile i will work on my 2nd project, installing the 500w cyclone kit on my old mountain bike.
 
Here are the photos

IMGP3540.jpg
The finished product of a few weeks of effort.

IMGP3543.jpg


IMGP3545.jpg
I'm not planning to ride in the rain. so exposed wires will do for now.

IMGP3546.jpg
This is where i secured my controller. I took the bottle mount off and used that same screw to screw on my controller. The controller gets cooled while i'm riding which is good.

IMGP3547.jpg
Connected in series with my favourite anderson powerpole connectors!

IMGP3548.jpg
i mounted the extra 24v 10ah Ping Battery in the battery bag that came with my cyclone kit, im gonna use this for now until i find another battery bag. but it holds really well.

IMGP3549.jpg
Max Speed 49.9km/h !!! dammit couldnt make it to 50, will try tomoro with a fully charged battery.

IMGP3551.jpg
My 24v 10ah Ping battery

IMGP3552.jpg
The batteries i own.
 
Very nice work 8) Thanks for all the great picture!! :D Blessings, Snow Crow
 
i just had a 10 km ride and my motor was hot to the touch...
 
BAD NEWS!

i went for a ride at a skate park and a dirt track with my mate, i totally forgot about that warning about not able to ride on offroad tracks.

Well my motor planetary gears are fuked! Think it was the strain i put on it while going up hill and some very steep half pipes. Stupid me i hate myself.

Now it makes this noise wen i accelerate from a slow speed. theres no way i can start from stationed anymore. However i have to pedal to around 30km/h then i can use the motor. But then again it still makes a bit of noise.

gonna need to buy some gears now.

But thats not the hard part, the hard part is taking the motor off the bike!
 
Thats a bit of bad luck, but boys will be boys, half pipes indeed!

I have to change the throttle controller on mine, doesnt look easy, Im studying your pics. Ive also noticed some kind of electronic counter thingo on the crank axle plate thingy, which must have to do with regulating the motor to the number of turns of the chain wheel. Any ideas on that one?

I am also yet to change the back tyre, it just doesnt look easy, and I fear hassles putting it back on. This bike design has not taken into account the need to change the back tyre. I might have to wait until I get a break inserted in the cable that enters the axle.

Back to the point, you made it work, you just need to know why it busted, Im sure you will work it out.
 
sorry to hear about the shredding! Are you going to order the replacement nylon gears direct from Keywin?

I bought my Bafang motor (the same that you have) direct from him. He should be able to supply the gears. If so, let me know, I'm in Sydney too and would like some spares :D

Keywin Ge <ecrazyman :!: gmail.com>

(substitute the explanation mark for an @ symbol)
 
mickk said:
Thats a bit of bad luck, but boys will be boys, half pipes indeed!

I have to change the throttle controller on mine, doesnt look easy, Im studying your pics. Ive also noticed some kind of electronic counter thingo on the crank axle plate thingy, which must have to do with regulating the motor to the number of turns of the chain wheel. Any ideas on that one?

I am also yet to change the back tyre, it just doesnt look easy, and I fear hassles putting it back on. This bike design has not taken into account the need to change the back tyre. I might have to wait until I get a break inserted in the cable that enters the axle.

Back to the point, you made it work, you just need to know why it busted, Im sure you will work it out.

I dont know what you are referring to but all i have in the triangle is a big controller mounted on the bike's bottle frame screw. There is a pedalec system(PAS) which is unused since this controller doesnt support it.

I am like you mick i was hoping you got ur back wheel off because i desperately need to get the back wheel off so i can open up the motor!!!!!!! thats the only hard bit to fix it!

voicecoils said:
sorry to hear about the shredding! Are you going to order the replacement nylon gears direct from Keywin?

I bought my Bafang motor (the same that you have) direct from him. He should be able to supply the gears. If so, let me know, I'm in Sydney too and would like some spares :D

Keywin Ge <ecrazyman :!: gmail.com>

(substitute the explanation mark for an @ symbol)

Yes i actually emailed Keywin about the price for it. But i'll have to open my motor to see how many spare gears i need. Did you want to order together with me or something? I don't think postage is that expensive. But im still waiting for him to reply back.
 
dazzassj6 said:
Yes i actually emailed Keywin about the price for it. But i'll have to open my motor to see how many spare gears i need. Did you want to order together with me or something? I don't think postage is that expensive. But im still waiting for him to reply back.

That would be cool if you could order some extra for me.

There are 3 nylon gears. Unless you've really mucked it up, those are the only ones I'd be worrying about. There's also the pinon gear in the middle of the three, and the sun gear around the outside, but they are both metal.
file.php


They are sold as a set, ie the entire #5 assembly.

Let me know how you go.

Cheers!
 
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