Overwhelmed by options. burning out....

[atom1025]

So I've been commuting by e bike for 10 months using a bashed commercial ebike(see sig).

I have been reading this forum everyday since I started.

I have been researching for a build I plan to start this month. Problem is I like everything and just can't commit to a build........ Just about every style I get excited about for a week and then I start putting more thought to the design and realize there are negatives to it. Just can't commit.... its really making me kinda sad...... don't even want to research anymore as I'm kinda getting burned out.

Budget: 3k
Daily commute: 17 miles round. Mild ups and downs with one short asskick hill.
Terrain: glass covered pavement for 8miles and a 1/2 mile of gravel.
Preference: some days I like to pedal a lot. Some days I don't pedal at all.
Condition: I am fairly fit. 30yrs old. 6'3" 180lbs
Skills: work in sheet metal shop, access to cnc and welding etc. 10 years of battlebots an rc planes.

So it has to be typical upright. I can't decide on what bike is most practical for the commute. Part of me wants a DH Style frame but the part of me that likes to pedal for 20 miles without powering up thinks not. Road bikes are not my thing. Hybrids might be but I don't know. The one bike that I seem to be sprung on is the Surly Big Dummy, I can afford it but the cost makes me sick, that's a used car!

Then there's the whole hub or crank driven debate going on in my head for weeks! Almost like I need to build a bike for each of my personalities ......

Anyways just venting but after suggestions....

Adam

 

[Spicerack]

A pure DH bike like my Norco Shore2 is an absolute pita to pedal- bouncy, one front chainring etc.

Probably a decent duallie like a Trek Fuel EX or similar.

What sort of motor? Friction drive is out due to the off roading. Mid drive RC style is out due to complexity (I'll be doing one to complement my mac...or cromotor...or new scooterhub coming up soon...see, same dilemma as you!) Something like the mac geared rear is a nice fit and not at all heavy compared to some. If you up the volts and limit amps with controller and Cycle Analyst, it would be an excellent commuter with 50-60km/hr capability depending on motor winding chosen.

Batteries- 48-60V lipo, 10-15Ah? Can't really tell you how much battery to get as I have about 50Ah on my bike and don't have any idea how far it will get me....yet...

I'm sure plenty of people will chime in to help confuse you even more.

The cellman geared kit is easy though.

 

[ohzee]

Yea you know I am in sort of a similar position. Going to sink a decent amount of money into a build and for the life of me cant figure out what I want to do.

So many options it is just so hard to decide so I can very much relate.

So far I am thinking cargo bike & 20ah pouch cells. Good luck on your build Ill be watching to see what you do.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

I'm like that too. I want a bunch of different stuff. I get bored easily.

How about a firemans Texas cruzer? Style, speed, fun.

 

[ElectricEd]

Hi Adam,
I reckon the biggest factor is the glass covered pavement for 8 miles. From my experience tyre protectors and slime only partly protect you. Your thought of using a cruiser gives you the option of fatter tyres with a deeper tread, something like a small motorbike tyre. How often do you hear of motorbikes or motor scooters getting punctures? Not often.
The more relaxed cruiser frame gives you more space for mounting batteries and a more comfortable ride. As you are not in a very hilly area, a direct drive motor like the HS series from Crystalite or the 9 Continents from Justin are probably the most appropriate for efficiency, but make sure you have plenty of battery life. It's a real pain to run out of battery a few miles from home and have to pedal a DD motor home. The cogging drag takes the fun out big time.

 

[Ykick]

I'm a firm believer that you cannot have too many ebikes. Every style has pros/cons plus it's nice when something breaks you don't need to rush repairs. As long as you invest in batteries that can swap around in your stable its really not that expensive to have more than one eBike.

OP would likely enjoy a very lightweight roadie type build and a good quality full suspension. DH's cool but a little overkill for 20-30 mph on pavement IMO.

 

[biohazardman]

So I've been commuting by e bike for 10 months using a bashed commercial ebike(see sig).

I have been reading this forum everyday since I started.

I have been researching for a build I plan to start this month. Problem is I like everything and just can't commit to a build........ Just about every style I get excited about for a week and then I start putting more thought to the design and realize there are negatives to it. Just can't commit.... its really making me kinda sad...... don't even want to research anymore as I'm kinda getting burned out.

Budget: 3k
Daily commute: 17 miles round. Mild ups and downs with one short asskick hill.
Terrain: glass covered pavement for 8miles and a 1/2 mile of gravel.
Preference: some days I like to pedal a lot. Some days I don't pedal at all.
Condition: I am fairly fit. 30yrs old. 6'3" 180lbs
Skills: work in sheet metal shop, access to cnc and welding etc. 10 years of battlebots an rc planes.

So it has to be typical upright. I can't decide on what bike is most practical for the commute. Part of me wants a DH Style frame but the part of me that likes to pedal for 20 miles without powering up thinks not. Road bikes are not my thing. Hybrids might be but I don't know. The one bike that I seem to be sprung on is the Surly Big Dummy, I can afford it but the cost makes me sick, that's a used car!

Then there's the whole hub or crank driven debate going on in my head for weeks! Almost like I need to build a bike for each of my personalities ......

Anyways just venting but after suggestions....

Adam

So you need to try and decide what you want to do? Answer some questions for yourself to narrow down what you really want.
You have some hills some road and some gravel so wider tires likely a commuter with front suspension or for more comfort a full suspension bike. Probably at least a 500W motor for any type of hill climbing more is better. If you want to pedal it alone then a hub gear motor will make it easier.

You want it to go 17 miles without charging?
This will help on the AH of battery pack you need. limited by weight and price choices

How much do you want it to weigh?
This will help narrow your bike and the battery options as well as your motor

How fast do you want it to go?
This will narrow your motor search down a bit

How much do you want to spend? 3K
This will not limit your choices to much.

For 3k you can build a nice full suspension bike that will be a comfortable commuter and give you the chance at doing a bit of off-road stuff too. Still it will weigh 50+ lbs if you start out with a 30LB bike more if you use a DD motor. It will be more stable at higher speeds than something without suspension. A cruiser style bike would probly werq but be less stable at high speeds and not as comfy on the commute. Probly about the same weight.

Don't be in a rush I spent a year gathering parts for my Giant trance build and have been very pleased with the results. Had I not been so patient I would likely be doing some of it over. Although that's not all bad if it leads you to the bike that serves your purpose.

 

[Samd]

Second hand Aprilia Enjoy rebuilt with 8s 3P (17Ahr) Lipo and twist throttle, a grand max , with batteries to spare. Dead silent for the city commute, so you can sneak up on the Lycra. Crank drive back thru the 6 speed gears for good city starts and hillclimbs, or switch up to top gear for the big straight runs.

Aprilia brand heritage. Motorbike riders and pedal pushers alike will ask you questions when you park at cafe's. Nice solid aluminium frame that us engineering folk admire.

You can spend the 2 grand in change on solar charging outfit, or buy a second Aprilia for your mates who will want one and spend the other grand on a beer binge like no other .

Not that I'm biased by Aprilias much. What if the future already existed, and just needed a quick rebirth? And some new carbon brshes every couple of years...

 

[TonyReynolds]

I think you have to just make your best guess and dive in. You have the advantage in a way, in that you've been doing your commute, you've got an entry level bike, you know what you need and you know what works and what doesn't. Go for it. You've got the knowledge and the budget.

 

[999zip999]

Cellman 1000w greared kit with a upgrade controller. A 72v battery for 30 amps. 20ah. Lipo or a123. Drop Ilia a line wwwebikessf.com he's getting some new motors.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Find yourself a used Big Dummy and make a mid-drive! You won't regret it!

Just remember, until you try, you won't know what you like best. Keep to off the shelf parts as much as possible, and that way if you decide you don't like what you have made, you can always re-configure it.

Sounds to me like your wanting much like what many have built in one form or another in a cargo bike of some sort.

I personally don't care for the long wheelbase bikes, so I have built up a shorter one to haul a trailer, and am currently building a "cargo pod" on the back with more storage than I could ever need, even on a long unsupported bike tour. 8)

 

[Jethro56]

As you've been reading this forum for awhile you're probably aware of these. http://www.xtracycle.com/cargo-bicycles/xtracycle-cargo-bicycles/xtracycle-freeradical/freeradical-base-frame.html
although now quite as nice as a Big Dummy It's much more affordable. I don't live near hills so the mid-drive option isn't necessary. http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_stokemonkey.php. I looked at build 2 as being a correction of the things I didn't like about build 1. For me it was 1.) Poor weight balance (not enough weight on front tire) and 2.) Not enough cargo capacity. The Xtracycle conversion I believe will solve these problems. I only hope it doesn't create insurmountable new ones.

I haven't ridden it yet. But I hope to mount my ammo-box battery pack today. ( 12S 20 aH Lipo) I've removed the rear brake bosses and will clamp it to the seat stays.

If you focus on what needs correction of your present build. The solutions become more apparent.

 

[dogman dan]

Wants a longtail and can weld? It's a no brainer where you need to head for one of your bikes. I'ts obvious you will want at least two, and have the budget if you don't blow too much on a mundo or dummy.

I weld for dogshit, and easily made this, once I managed to scrounge the right old frames. Hard to spot it, but that's a steel FS frame cut in half for the rear part. So it's a FS longtail! Sweet on a gravel road.

Right now I'd suggest looking for a decent used full suspension mountain bike. Specialized FSR is one good pick, it's a cross country design, focused on good uphill pedaling so it will pedal much nicer than something designed to go up on the ski lift. Goes without saying, you want FS for the gravel bit.

I built my main commuter on an old Giant frame. DH ish for it's day, but nothing special now. 4-5 inches of travel. Set the suspension up fairly stiff, and the pedal bob is quite tolerable, but you still have travel there if you hit a chuckhole at 30 mph. I rode this bike though the usual rocks and glass for 15 miles one way for about 8000 miles. For tires, I just went with ones that were going to last about 2000 miles max, but had some tread to keep the cord stood a bit further off the glass. Just cheap bell tires, in the comfort bike type. Cut one at 500 miles, no big deal, cheap enough to keep a spare in the garage at all times. Thick tubes and slime for the mesquite thorns and smaller nails.


Since you want to pedal without power some, get the cellman Mac kit. Likely the fast version. Can run it on a 48v 15 ah pingbattery for convenience, or the cellman battery if you have the budget. He can make you a pouch cell A123 battery that would be larger capacity btw. just have to ask for it.

 

[dogman dan]

Re battery size. That's going to depend a LOT on your traveling speed. A typical 700-800wh battery ( 48v 15ah, 36v 20ah) will be plenyt big enough for 20 mph. 25 mph, and it will get a bit small but still OK, 30mph and you will definitely need a 1kwh, like a 48v 20 ah.

 

[Jethro56]

Sweet Dogman. Paint it Olive Drab and call it Kanine Kommando

 

[etard]

HAHA! I just noticed the two kickstands! Awesomeness!! 8)

Atom,
Come down to the Grange race in April and chat it out with some of the guys and look over all the bikes, gas and electric. and then figure out what direction you want to go. I'm not a fan of road bikes either but when I get on mine compared to my heavy mountain bikes I feel like Lance Armstrong. Have you checked out the Kepler friction drive or even Adrian's?

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

Here is an option for you...excellent comfort and speed, perfect for commuting...Sun EZ-Sport long wheelbase recumbent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFF9XeAjp2w

Cromolly frame....has an optional mid-rack which can put two big packs right under your seat in the middle of the bike, and still leave room for full pannier and tailbag...
Nice balance with front motor and batteries. I've got one of the Ez-Sports, they ride like a dream....with a 9C on the front...100 mile range a day, with two 16Ahr packs in parallel (48).

You can find these used for around 600 bucks. They also have some nice Windwrap fairings available.

 

[dogman dan]

Those can be good options too. I just want to be real tall and visible on my commute. I much prefer over the hood to under the wheels too. That particular bike is one of the recumbents I'd love to lay hands on cheap, I don't look much on CL but look for the stolen one weekly at the flea. I'ts not so short, like some of the bents I have seen, so definietly a candidate for a commuter. No suspension though, so unsuitable for a long ride in my town. Crap roads.

I still think something in FS is really the best for him, even though the dirt road part is not long. I still say get squared away with a reasonably low cost FS commuter first. Spend a few bucks on a decent battery or two. Then start in on the hunt for parts to make a longtail. There are places to get all the parts to do it from scratch too, with prefab BB, headset, brake mounts, droputs. Make the longtail a chain drive. I'm just such a pussy, I just bolt on a hubbie every time. But nothing wrong with a decent hubmotor for the first build.

With welding skills, the sky is the limit for you.

Been doing the double kickstand on bikes for quite some time, with two frames and two mounts, a real no brainer. Just had to weld or bolt on lentheners for both of them.

The FS longtail is named Bouncing Betty. Inspired by Zoot's longtail Le Bette.

 

[atom1025]

"You want it to go 17 miles without charging?" Actually this time round I would like a little more. My 10 amp 15s Lipo will do the round trip at about 20mph. I'm always watching the speed and watts to assure I limit for the ride home. This time I want to have more overhead so I am not always watching the fuel gauge. Thinking 18s3p 5000s. I also want to upgrade charge system. Currently run a CellPro10 balance charger. Really pain in the ass as it only charges 10s packs at 600w. Takes bout 3 hrs a night. Looking at getting one of those custom chargers set to 72v for bulk charging then balance charge on the weekend using that cellpro powerlab 8 and that badass parallel adapter that just came out for it. Should cut the balance charge time to an hour. I can charge at work as my boss is cool but it was a hassle with the balance charger. I may bulk charge at work also since its easier. If I do bulk charge at work then 18s2p 5000s is plenty.


"How much do you want it to weigh? " LOL my current bike weighs in at a whopping 69lbs! Bike weighs 50 alone as its all steel and what the Chinese call full suspension. She pedals a dream though as I average 14 mph on the flats without breaking a sweat. Output gear has freewheel so virtually drag free. So I really am interested to see how a lighter bike handles. 40-50lbs would be a win for me. I realize a cargo bike will prolly be a heavy build but I am fine with that.


"How fast do you want it to go? " I am content with 30mph but traffic does 35 so I would not mind 35 tops. I am really not a speed junkie on the bikes I like to look legal and not draw attention so I keep it around 20mph most of the time. At first I was set on the cyclone till I heard its a noisy sob. Cyclone is not an option. I really love the simplicity of the commuter booster and would love a road bike equipped with one but it does not suit my terrain and the whole when it rains issue. In all reality I don't think I want to go the RC route at all on this one. I have only been on one hub bike and that's the wifes currie urban cruiser. Real nightmare to pedal. I have been looking at the Mac rear geared a lot lately. Worried that a hub will take the pleasure out of pedaling like my wifes bike that supposedly has a freewheel hub. The stokemonkey is what introduced me to the big dummy. Dunno why but the thought of a Big D with a stokemonkey sounds enticing. Extracycle does nothing for me personally.

So why don't I commit to a Big D. There's no practical way to test ride one aside from travel.
I have been in contact with surly and they said hundreds have been in my shoes and the people who get one never regret it bla bla bla.

So I peruse craigslist daily looking for something that calls to me..... its weird just cause I have the budget the cheapskate in me knows I can accomplish great results for far less.

Thanks for all the feed back! Great forum!

Adam

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Good on you Adam, waiting for the right deal on CL or a bike that calls to you is never a bad option!

Better that than to buy something you don't like in the end.

Personally, I would go the Yuba or Big-D before an extracycle, just because of the extra amount of frame flex it introduces affecting the efficiency of pedaling (not as important with an E-Bike, but I like to pedal too, so makes a difference to me. )

Just be warned, the longer you hang out here, the more you are liable to build something like you see here!

 

[atom1025]

I've test ridden at least a dozen bikes since the last post. I even tested out some off the shelf ebikes like the A2B and the stromer. Stromer was way better then a2b but they were weak and had little punch.

I found a shop about 30 miles away that stocked the Yuba Mundo and I gave it a spin. Out of all the different styles I rode I felt extremely comfortable and relaxed on the behemoth. 55 pounds stock but it rides very light. Has a cruiser stance to it. Comes complete with fenders and disc brakes for $1200. Compare that to the big dummys price tag including shipping and I save nearly a grand. They even had a Mundo set up with bionx that I test rode. I was actually impressed with the kit after hearing mostly negatives about it. Its perfect for the wife but a little weak for me.

So I am now 100% confident that a long cargo bike is suited to me. I really am not crazy over the look of the Mundo but I don't hate it either. The one size fits most idea seems lame but it fit me well at 6'3". I still want a big dummy as the comparison reviews between the two has the big d appearing much better in all departments except load capacity. The big d is ten pounds lighter and is said to feel faster.

After a week of searching it seems the best way to get a big d is to buy the frame and build it up. I think this is a good way to go as I won't waste money on parts I won't use. I've never built up a bike and I am nervous it won't come out professional. I have been purchasing tools over the past few weeks to work on stuff my self. I have a cassette tool and crank arm remover, chain tool etc.



There's a site that has frames on clearance for $175 below msrp. So $775 plus shipping. Just sucks knowing that the complete setup will be worth nearly 3gs. I don't see how I could ever leave this outside a grocery store locked up without panicking about it getting stolen.

As far as ordering by frame size. I am 6'3" and according to the charts a 22" frame would be my size. I am nervous to commit without a test feel. Some of the 22s I rode felt huge and others did not. So any advice here? 20" or 22".

Adam

Ps I have to decide on power plant leaning towards a geared Mac in the rim but running a stokemonkey style is still intriguing. Though keeping the triangles clean and open would be a nice change.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I've test ridden at least a dozen bikes since the last post. I even tested out some off the shelf ebikes like the A2B and the stromer. Stromer was way better then a2b but they were weak and had little punch.

I found a shop about 30 miles away that stocked the Yuba Mundo and I gave it a spin. Out of all the different styles I rode I felt extremely comfortable and relaxed on the behemoth. 55 pounds stock but it rides very light. Has a cruiser stance to it. Comes complete with fenders and disc brakes for $1200. Compare that to the big dummys price tag including shipping and I save nearly a grand. They even had a Mundo set up with bionx that I test rode. I was actually impressed with the kit after hearing mostly negatives about it. Its perfect for the wife but a little weak for me.

So I am now 100% confident that a long cargo bike is suited to me. I really am not crazy over the look of the Mundo but I don't hate it either. The one size fits most idea seems lame but it fit me well at 6'3". I still want a big dummy as the comparison reviews between the two has the big d appearing much better in all departments except load capacity. The big d is ten pounds lighter and is said to feel faster.

After a week of searching it seems the best way to get a big d is to buy the frame and build it up. I think this is a good way to go as I won't waste money on parts I won't use. I've never built up a bike and I am nervous it won't come out professional. I have been purchasing tools over the past few weeks to work on stuff my self. I have a cassette tool and crank arm remover, chain tool etc.



There's a site that has frames on clearance for $175 below msrp. So $775 plus shipping. Just sucks knowing that the complete setup will be worth nearly 3gs. I don't see how I could ever leave this outside a grocery store locked up without panicking about it getting stolen.

As far as ordering by frame size. I am 6'3" and according to the charts a 22" frame would be my size. I am nervous to commit without a test feel. Some of the 22s I rode felt huge and others did not. So any advice here? 20" or 22".

Adam

Ps I have to decide on power plant leaning towards a geared Mac in the rim but running a stokemonkey style is still intriguing. Though keeping the triangles clean and open would be a nice change.

What is most important to you? Torque off the line (acceleration) or top speed? How often do you plan on having some form of cargo paniers on it?


With a cargo bike, you can go relatively fast, but unless you want to have serious high voltage and over-built (think motorcycle class or close to it) components and the price tag to match, you're going to be riding what is more of a "truck" than a sports car.

I would concentrate on acceleration and low end power personally since sometimes you will be hauling weight, and you might be surprised how exhilarating it is to have a heavy laden bike and even to be going a little faster than an average bicycle up a hill that normally would kill you with the heavy load.

If you will have cargo bags like the Xtracycle Hoodie, there will be less of a cluttered triangle area, however, if you are going to not go with some bags, that would seem to defeat the purpose of having a cargo bike of this kind.

I really like the design of the Hoodie bags since they collapse and expand to accommodate cargo, or are pretty streamlined when empty.

And at $40 that seems like a steal!

Don't be too intimidated at the thought of building up a bike, find someone who can give you real world ideas on what makes the most sense for your planed use, and don't try to go too cheap, in the long run, I learned the hard way in some cases that a "regular" or "bargain" component generally means you will buying a new one quicker than the high end stuff.

Most of the problems with most bicycles used in the US, is they are for recreation, and not built for every-day use, but you also might look and see what Surly has on their bike to get an idea of what you should shoot for component wise.

One thing that I never would have realized on my own, is that the standard square shank cranks with normal sized bottom bracket bearings will wear out once a season with any regular riding with just LEG POWER alone, and a friend of mine who had done this before me (and is also considerably heavier than me) had discovered this because of the monster hill here, and in the end I bought a set of used FSA cranks with a compact MTB gearing range much like this one:

So I would have the option of crawling gears if I ever had a motor side failure (22T granny gear) I could still get up the hill even with a heavy load on leg power alone.

That and a good hand built wheel are two things I will never go with-out no matter what bike I build (unless it's a seldom ridden "sunny day" bike) because I am hard on bike components, and in the end, the $80 used cranks saved me a ton! ( I have yet to have to replace even a bearing, and if I had bought a standard BB, I would have replaced the entire crank assembly 2x by now!) The over-sized bearings fit a standard BB, just have cups that allow them to fit into the standard frame and use much larger bearings that go on the outside of the BB.

Since you are building a cargo bike, if in doubt, go big and heavy duty.

I used to have several "normal" standard bicycle wheels on my bikes, most were machine built, and had to be regularly trued, and I paid the money, got some hand built wheels, and I have close to 1,500 miles on them with not even ONE truing require much less anything else, mind you I'm not as heavy as a friend of mine who used to have trouble with wheels not holding up to heavy touring bike loads, but I had myself (180/bs) and 150lbs of pedal powered touring bike (full self supported camp/touring, food, tent etc.) so 330lbs on a 26inch rear wheel that took probably 70% of the weight on my recument, and never had a problem even after hitting a 3 inch high "curb" that I didn't see till the last minute at about 20 mph, and later 25 mph in the dark in a construction zone, a 4 inch curb, hit so hard it launched the waterbottles on the sides of my seat bag straight up, and not a scratch! 8)

 

[dnmun]

somebody was selling a mondo on here recently i think. i see them on CL here a lot too.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Oh, and I forgot to mention the FSA cranks that I have are "Gamm Drive" compact MTB, I'm pretty sure the ones I posted are more expensive, hopefully you have a place like "City Bikes" in your area, it's a Non-profit Co-op and they even buy stuff too!

I actually prefer slightly used stuff to new most of the time because it has been proven. 8)

 

[BATFINK]

Build 2 bikes and just swap the battery onto whichever you are using. The battery will always work out the most expensive component of course unless you go for a really high end bike but then it doesn't make much sense to do that. I have a decent commuter old school steel trek just now but I am now building a full suspension Norco for comfort and some tougher terrain. With 2 bikes you will get a much better understanding of what exactly you want from a bike.

Sent using Endless-Sphere Mobile app