Cyclomania
10 kW
Ah ok. But I mean the principle. This is how it is done? But preferably with insulation then.
PAS sensor connected to wheel
- Thread starter Cyclomania
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Cyclomania
10 kW
I have localised the white wire. Dug it up from the silicone.
Would it be best to use a bit of a thicker conductor for this project? When I am lengthening the white wire I mean.
Or when and why is a short most likely to occur? Because of too thin conductors or the other way around?
I have a thicker one in the mid pic to the left. Best to use this one perhaps? Pic 3 shows three way connectors. Thinking I should try on an external throttle first to see if it works. And then after that perhaps solder on the real one.
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LOL
Cyclomania
10 kW
I have thought about doing it like that. Getting the wheel size really low. But P7 is speed measuring magnet. Don't you mean P8? P8 is speed limit.
(P7 is the one I think I would set to 1 if I install the speed meter since it is a "speed measuring magnet"-setting and only one magnet on the wheel if I install this speed sensor)
TommyCat
10 kW
Great information above. I'd just add that there are also heat shrink with a glue coating inside. That when heated melts the glue as well as shrinks the tubing. That when desired makes for a more secure, and perhaps somewhat water-resistant insulation.
Sorry if I missed some things but...
Are you running ether a mid-drive motor or geared hub drive? I.E. Or why you would want an external speed input.
Copying down and post all the P settings before you try changing them might be helpful.
To see if you can make changes have you tried changing the displays settings to get your existing speedometer reading more accurate?
Are you able to make changes at all?
If top speed capability is only your priority, it appears that speed limit and current limits can be controlled thru the display programming. (PO-8 and P14).
Does your display have and are you able to configure the speed signal input? (PO-7) Does changing this effect the speed indication now? Can you get it close to actual speed indication without doing anything else?
Have you tried changing the wheel size to skew the speed indication? (PO-6) Can you change and save it?
If you can't change the speed magnet inputs setting, I fear that it may still use the hall sensors for input. Unless a pulse from the white wire automatically overrides the input used? You can test this.
At the time of mentioning shorts, I wasn't concerned about the physical connections. But my perspective was more about connecting into the correct wires. Most importantly, if the white wire in the hall sensor bundle going to the controller is actually FOR the speed indication. Does this input if used override what is giving you a speed display now?
If you have control over programming and/or want to try using the white wire for input and see if it works by overriding the settings, this is what I would try first.
The goal is to become reasonably sure the white wire is what we hope it is, checking voltage and current draw. And then manually use it to see if it works...
Voltage check: With the system powered up, read the voltage coming from the controller white wire to ground. 3vdc to 5vdc? continue on.
Power off.
Current check: Use an easy to access ground connection that goes to the negative side of the battery and connect your meter's BLACK ground or common lead to it.
Setting your meter to read amps, and with the RED jack in the proper location for current readings. (Don't forget to change back when going to read voltages again!)
If you have a 250-ohm resistor to use or a 100mA fuse to sacrifice, put it in series with your RED meter probe and the white wire that you are going to test. Do not connect, you will just quickly touch the two together to see what the current reading is. You shouldn't probably be able to read anything in this range, and so short of period. The goal is to see if this is an actual signal input wire that should not draw much current when shorted to ground. (I.E. less than 10mA.) If you pass on the higher amperage range, dial down to the mA range and get a reading there. If current is staying low, remove the resistor and try again.
If you can safely short the white wire to ground with the current level low as described continue.
Now for the fun part. You can remove the meter if desired. Your goal is to pretend you are the speed signal indicator by shorting the white signal wire to ground at different but consistent timing intervals. Monitoring the speedometer's speed indication for operation. I wouldn't think that the motor's operation would be required when trying this speedo signal test, and should indicate if...
1) If the settings have to be changed to work.
2) The white wire is for an external speed signal.
If you have any questions, or I've not made myself perfectly clear and you understand the risks... please ask for clarifications BEFORE testing.
Lol, sorry E-HP. You always seem to post whist I'm typing. Better late than never.
Sorry if I missed some things but...
Are you running ether a mid-drive motor or geared hub drive? I.E. Or why you would want an external speed input.
Copying down and post all the P settings before you try changing them might be helpful.
To see if you can make changes have you tried changing the displays settings to get your existing speedometer reading more accurate?
Are you able to make changes at all?
If top speed capability is only your priority, it appears that speed limit and current limits can be controlled thru the display programming. (PO-8 and P14).
Does your display have and are you able to configure the speed signal input? (PO-7) Does changing this effect the speed indication now? Can you get it close to actual speed indication without doing anything else?
Have you tried changing the wheel size to skew the speed indication? (PO-6) Can you change and save it?
If you can't change the speed magnet inputs setting, I fear that it may still use the hall sensors for input. Unless a pulse from the white wire automatically overrides the input used? You can test this.
At the time of mentioning shorts, I wasn't concerned about the physical connections. But my perspective was more about connecting into the correct wires. Most importantly, if the white wire in the hall sensor bundle going to the controller is actually FOR the speed indication. Does this input if used override what is giving you a speed display now?
If you have control over programming and/or want to try using the white wire for input and see if it works by overriding the settings, this is what I would try first.
The goal is to become reasonably sure the white wire is what we hope it is, checking voltage and current draw. And then manually use it to see if it works...
Voltage check: With the system powered up, read the voltage coming from the controller white wire to ground. 3vdc to 5vdc? continue on.
Power off.
Current check: Use an easy to access ground connection that goes to the negative side of the battery and connect your meter's BLACK ground or common lead to it.
Setting your meter to read amps, and with the RED jack in the proper location for current readings. (Don't forget to change back when going to read voltages again!)
If you have a 250-ohm resistor to use or a 100mA fuse to sacrifice, put it in series with your RED meter probe and the white wire that you are going to test. Do not connect, you will just quickly touch the two together to see what the current reading is. You shouldn't probably be able to read anything in this range, and so short of period. The goal is to see if this is an actual signal input wire that should not draw much current when shorted to ground. (I.E. less than 10mA.) If you pass on the higher amperage range, dial down to the mA range and get a reading there. If current is staying low, remove the resistor and try again.
If you can safely short the white wire to ground with the current level low as described continue.
Now for the fun part. You can remove the meter if desired. Your goal is to pretend you are the speed signal indicator by shorting the white signal wire to ground at different but consistent timing intervals. Monitoring the speedometer's speed indication for operation. I wouldn't think that the motor's operation would be required when trying this speedo signal test, and should indicate if...
1) If the settings have to be changed to work.
2) The white wire is for an external speed signal.
If you have any questions, or I've not made myself perfectly clear and you understand the risks... please ask for clarifications BEFORE testing.
Lol, sorry E-HP. You always seem to post whist I'm typing. Better late than never.
I may reference your post in my newbie faq. It has more value beyond this thread (plus it’s already typed up!), and it sure beats trial and error.Lol, sorry E-HP. You always seem to post whist I'm typing. Better late than never.
TommyCat
10 kW
I know it works for fooling a PAS signal. Thinking it should work the same here.
Yup! And the “current check” procedure will be great to add to the wiring section of my faq. Maybe I’ll add a subsection on tests for identifying the functions of unknown connectors.
Cyclomania
10 kW
Hmm interesting. How does that work? Will the motor think it is a 100 magnets, and thereby think the bike is going slower than it actually is?
Or how would 100 on speed measuring magnet increase top speed limit? Just curious.
Cyclomania
10 kW
No I have been away for a while. Now I am back. I am going to try today or tomorrow. But can you explain it. I want to understand how that works if I need to do it some other time
I will try this if it does not work with the speed sensor that I have installed today.
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Cyclomania
10 kW
I think maybe it works.
I have installed the bafang speed sensor. White wire to the halls going out of the controller. Red and ground spliced into the throttle's wires. When the magnet comes close to the sensor it lights up in red so it it active in some way, although I have not tested the bike yet so I am not completely sure.
Now, before I go out and test-ride(when it stops raining tomorrow or something), I want to do a similar thing with a gear sensor, that I have now done with the throttle+speed sensor.
As a guy recommended in another thread (this one: Gear sensor for universal controller?) I want to install a gear sensor, since I like this feature when the drivetrain and motor is a mid drive that wears on the chain and sprocket over time.
Now I do have this gear sensor that I was thinking about hooking up/splice to the brake sensors somehow. Only thing is I am not sure how to do it or if it is possible on this controller(?).
Since the two break sensors have two cables individually, four in total, but my gear sensor instead has three cables, I am not sure where I should hook up the third cable from the gear sensor?
Any ideas? Looks like this:
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beemac
10 kW
we've spent time giving you help on that in the other thread - don't ignore that and ask the same question again. What didn't you understand in the other thread? Please go back and ask there rather than start again.
Cyclomania
10 kW
Take it easy. Relax. I was going to ask there too. I have not forgotten about you and your answers, for which I am thankful.
But since I have TommyCat here that always answers me in a nice manner and is very knowledgeable I wanted to ask here as well, since this topic is very related to that thread, and I did not know if he knew about that thread.
A new issue arose with the brake wires that I wanted to describe to him as well.
I believe there are 3 threads. That’s why it would be nice if the section at the bottom “Similar threads” could have a toggle button option for “Similar threads from same member” in order to find the relevant info scattered around in the various posts. Without a documented resolution, those threads just turn into junk that will never help future posters. It’s a selfish and self serving use of resources.
Cyclomania
10 kW
Might be. But I am here for selfish reasons. I am trying to fix my bikes. And I think my threads can probably help a lot of other scared noobs who are afraid of asking the stupid questions here. Because I will just keep asking. I simply do not care if you talk down to me or describe me as having a certain type of personality, being sarcastic etc. I will keep asking. I will open a new thread if I get no answer. If the answer is going like "do this instead", I might consider it but that might not be the answer I am looking for if I was trying to do something else. Then I will ask again.
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Cyclomania
10 kW
I managed to get the speedometer on the bike and I believe it should work when I get my frontring back on.
But first I want to hook up a gear sensor to the brake wires. And if this is not possible maybe I will use the magnets from the brake wires on the the shift levers instead. Although the better solution would be to keep the brake wires and splice the gear sensor into one of the brake wires. We talk about it in this other thread:
Gear sensor for universal controller?
Yes that should work First you need to double-check there is no voltage on the brake sensor connectors. If you can't get the probes in the holes, cut two bits of (ideally non-stranded wire), strip both ends - and poke those into the holes, then you can use the multimeter to check for any...
endless-sphere.com
But I am not sure if this would cause a short now that I read 3-5volts from the brake wires when I had the multimeter on voltage measuring and probed it with the battery hooked up.
You didn’t really need to clarified that.
By setting a bad example? If you make it difficult for people to help you, they won’t. beemac is spot on.
Cyclomania
10 kW
Yes, I am here for selfish reasons. I want to fix my projects and gain intellectual resources. Why are you here?
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Cyclomania
10 kW
I thought this was an ebike forum where I could ask "selfish" questions about my projects?
I am thankful for the help I have gotten so far. Because even though the vibe I get here is not always the best, compared to other forums, there are a lot of knowledge here.
Now, I have poured as much info as I can about my projects into the threads to make it NOT difficult for you. This should not be hard to answer without too many personal attacks.
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TommyCat
10 kW
To try and clarify a little bit... there are voltage potential readings that can cause issues and damage from being shorted. A high current, higher potential voltage connected to ground or to a lower voltage as an example. (Your typical OH
)And then there are those that do not.
One type would be what I think of as "ghost" or stray voltage. A present readable voltage that may be produced by a circuit leakage of voltage. Or that can build up after time. But has no real continuous current potential behind it.
The ones we are interested here are the electronic signal type of voltage reading...
Electronic signals are produced by the controller's electronic circuitry to provide a reference "signal" that when acted upon gives the controller a digital ON/OFF reference. These signals may be referenced by terms like pull-up, or pull-down resistor. Or high or low signals.
Examples of some signals that may be produced by a typical E-bike controller include.
Speed signal.
PAS signal.
Cruise signal.
Reverse signal.
Motor's three individual hall sensor signals.
Low Brake signal.
These type of voltage signals are designed to be shorted to ground.
Having voltage to start with, gives a HIGH signal.
And then when shorted, switched, or toggled to ground. Produces a LOW signal.
This is where you get the digital, or ON/OFF aspect.
In the matter of your possible speed signal, it was important to verify first that it was indeed a true speed signal being provided by the white wire. Hence the safety checks.
In the matter of your gear sensor, it's important to make sure that only the brake signal gets shorted to ground. With the 5vdc positive power source and ground providing the means for the sensor to operate.
The gear sensor acts as a switch, that activates when it sees cable movement. Connecting the brake signal to ground when activated and then holding it there for a certain amount of time.
Motor operation is disabled when the brake signal is connected to ground.
Your gear sensor will have two different voltages going to it.
The 5vdc positive power supply for sensor operation.
And the 1.3vdc to a bit less than 5vdc brake signal voltage. (seen when the sensor is NOT activated) This voltage will vary according to the controller.
But will draw very little current when shorted to ground. You can see how much exactly by checking the brake signal current when the normal brake lever switches are closed.
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Cyclomania
10 kW
Hmm ok. Thanks for the clarification.
Thing is I do not quite understand where the risk comes from hooking up the gear sensor to the brake wires. Is there a risk of a short involved? Or can I just get busy and start doing this?
I have two alternatives I am looking at:
1: Splicing my two existing brake sensors into 4 brake sensors. Which means two extra brake sensors on the shift lever/caliper, where I will glue magnets of the down and up shift levers, and one for each of the hydraulic brake handles. So four magnets in total. Then the motor will cut when pushing the brake handles or the shift levers.
This alternative might be the safest perhaps? In this alternative I would hook up the two extra brake sensors cables, to the two existing ones, via their individual ground and 5v cables.
2: Hooking up an external gear sensor to one of the brake sensors red wire. So blue wire from the gear sensor goes to red wire on one of the two brake sensors. And then I hook ground and 5v from gear sensor to the ones on the PAS sensor.
Do you think I should go for one of these alternatives. Or do you think both of them could be risky and create a short for some reason?
TommyCat
10 kW
Just from miswiring to something you shouldn't have...
To avoid confusion, I would refer to the brake cable's RED wire or signal wire going to the brake connector as "signal". Not 5vdc...
I.E. Red is signal, Black is ground.
This is what I would do.
Review Beemac's wiring instructions in the other thread, as I found them accurate and helpful.
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