Ping 2A charger - bad connections?

[mrzed]

Hi all,

I have an ebikes.ca 9C kit that recently went through a round of troubleshooting/replacements. After getting the kit all sorted out, replacing the controller and motor (all under warranty, and with excellent support from ebikes.ca) I seem to be unable to charge the ping (48v/15ah).

The CA shows resting around 51v at the moment, and I have ridden about 40% of capacity (estimated) since the last charge during testing and the first commute in a while this morning. The red light on the charger however does not come on, and the BMS does not light up.

During one of the rounds of testing, the wiring on the motor was damaged where they come out of the axle during shipping. It was on the bottom and I did not notice until after I had plugged everything in for a test, and it likely shorted. My concern is that a voltage spike may have damaged/fried the BMS.

Other than the obvious, how can I determine if this is indeed the issue? And related - if the BMS is down, what is a safe pack voltage to ride it down to (I have to get home today at the least).

Thanks

 

[dnmun]

no info of use. do you have picture of the cut wire and where you say it shorted? why do you think the BMS is fried? have you charged with this wiring from the charger to the pack you are currently using before or is this new?

 

[mrzed]

The cut wires were the main power leads into the motor, and I do not have a picture, as the motor has now been replaced. I cannot be 100% sure it shorted, but I was running power through it, and when I looked, the wires were a mess, insulation cut right through, so it is likely.

The charger/pack combo is the same as it was before I had controller/motor issues, and I had at least 10-15 charge cycles before this issue happened. The green (full) light comes on for the charger, but I do not get the red charging light despite the pack sitting at 52v right now.

 

[dogman dan]

If it's the 2 amp charger, I just lost mine because the output wires from the charger to the battery are crap, shoddy insulation on the inner wire. I'd troubleshoot that first, mine just shorted out, and now the charger is not working. Planning to pass it on to amberwolf so don't bother to post to me how to fix it.

90% chance the reason the charger won't turn red and charge is a bad connection somewhere, on the wire, plug etc. Mine had the wire go bad at about cycle 20.

 

[mrzed]

Dogman,

It is the 2A charger - and the build quality did always seem suspect, but it is coincidental to the other issues.

It would certainly be nicer if it was the charger - easier/cheaper to fix and I could upgrade to a 5A charger for good measure. Need to find a way to be sure . . . any troubleshooting suggestions?

 

[dogman dan]

I'd start by looking for current on the DC end plug on the charger. If none, there is a problem at the attachment to the charger board, the plug or the wire itself.

Most likely, just replace the wire from inside the charger to the plug. Check polarity, install the plug, and check again. Got a pile of smoked chargers for not checking the second time.

This has become a real common problem for me, commuting daily, I end up losing the connection between the charger plug and the charger fairly often. Great how the led gives the same signal for charged, and never did charge at all.

 

[dnmun]

it depends on the charger. i have seen chargers which disconnect the output from the back end of the charger when there is no battery attached. it doesn't switch the output mosfet unless there is a voltage present already on the charger output plug.

i still don't understand why you said the BMS fried. what happened to the BMS to cause you to say this? is there discoloration on the mosfets or do they appear broken?

did you detect any voltage in the back end of the charger when you looked inside?

 

[mrzed]

I suspected the BMS only due to having a probable short on the system, but it turns out to be the charger. It was just coincidental that the issue appeared at the same time. I was able to find a local ES member who kindly let me test with his charger and all appears well.

Except the charger - it looked especially cheap when I got it, and now I'll have to try to find the loose or broken connection, probably on the wire leading from the charger to the battery.

 

[mrzed]

Well, I confirmed that it was a broken wire - the wire leading from the XLR charging plug to the charger - it enters one of those molded rubber blocks (ironically intended to reinforce the connection) and that was where it broke.

The wire has an internal insulated wire that has the second conductor wrapped around it, then the outside insulation around that. On the other side of the rubber block, there are black and white wires attached to the PCB. There is no way to tell if the internal or external wire from the cable go to white or black - anyone happen to know? If I could figure this out, I could splice it together and keep using it.

 

[dnmun]

the braided sleeve is the ground, or negative in this case.

 

[mrzed]

Thanks dnmun.

 

[dogman dan]

One of the things I learned is that the way the anderson connectors work tends to eliminate some of that tendency for a wire to break at the connector. Upgrade the wire, I found cheap lampcord works well, and with more strands it takes longer to break all of em. Dang rubber ends on plugs just move the place where it breaks down a bit. Oddly the andersons work better, not letting it concentrate the bending in one spot, while also not letting it bend at the end of the crimp. Smart boy, whoever invented those.

Since I am such a big ping fan, could ya get the title of this thread changed? Ping 2 amp charger sucks would be fine.

 

[mrzed]

Done Dogman - agreed and it also makes it easier for people to search in future.

For the polarity of the connections on the PCB, I'd kind of assume black=ground, but I suppose to be safe I plug it in and test - assuming I only touch those wires with the meter - not likely to harm myself?

 

[dogman dan]

no harm. solder on new wires, test, mark wires, test. solder on plug, test again, etc. Photographs before you start help a ton too, like which wire went where on the plug originally, etc.

 

[dnmun]

you should be able to just solder the connection inside the plug. take out the little screw, pull the inside of the plug out and then resolder the connection. as i recall 1 is hot and the middle is noconnection and the third is the negative.

i consider the new ping 2A charger to be really well built. not like the old ones that he had so much trouble with. i have pictures inside somewhere if you need them.,

 

[dogman dan]

On mine, the output wire itself is total crap, and needs to be repaced if you have similar coaxial wire. The inner wires insulation cracks if bent 90 degrees, allowing a short to cause havoc.

 

[mrzed]

Dogman, your comment is very apropos, I just opened up the section of wire I found suspect, and the inner wire had 2 cracks all around the insulation, in both cases somewhat blackened from shorting. I've cut that section out and spliced it back together, but I agree with you that I will need to replace the output wire.

I normally use a sharp knife rather than strippers to strip insulation. The insulation on the inside wire only had to be cut less than a quarter of the way through then lightly bent in order to come off cleanly. It is the brittlest insulation I've ever seen on electrical wire.

That said, I now have a working charger again.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, that inner insulation has about the strength of cooked macaroni.

 

[fasteddy99]

Great thread.

I just got back from a ride and my ping 48v would not charge. Yes. . . just like you the green light stays on but it will not turn red and start charging, even though the voltage at the battery BMS charge leads is 52.7v (female XLR). The voltage at the CHARGER leads (male XLR) is 60.5v.

If the connection from the charger to the male XLR was bad, would one not expect 0V? How can I get 60.5v if the connection is bad? Is there a unit in the charger that measures the discrepencies in voltage between the battery and the charger and turns the charger on when the battery voltage is lower than 60.5v? If so, then perhaps that is the reason the charger would not turn red and deliver a charge to the battery?

Thanks for your help.

I am hoping it is not the battery but rather this charger.

 

[dnmun]

actually his 2A charger is the best design i have seen. but there is nothing wrong with your charger or the leads if you read 60V on the XLR connector.

have you ever charged this battery before? how many times have you cycled this pack and did you drain all the charge out of it totally before you tried to charge it?

 

[fasteddy99]

The battery has 15 cycles. It was half drained when I tried to charge it.

I tried what was suggested on here about cutting out some wire on the lead from the charger to the XLR and it seems to be working again - red light started and it is charging. Must have been a bad connection in the charger wire.

 

[dogman dan]

I went crazy once, having an intermittent bad connection. Red light goes on, yup., Green light later, yup. Charged battery, nope. Somewhere along the line it stopped charging and was getting about 5 miles per charge instead of 25. Thought I'd toasted my battery for sure. I wonder how many of the defective Jimmywu batteries were just having the same problem two years ago.

 

[amberwolf]

I wonder if any of these charger problems could be caused by this:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18635&start=0

 

[fasteddy99]

I have presonally never seen the type of arrangement in the Ping 48v 2amp charger before, where there is only one insulated wire and the uninsulated wire just wraps around the insulated wire and then both are covered in rubber.

Ping was good enough to send me a new charger when I told him that the fan on this one was not working, which it is not. At least I will have it as a back-up if worse comes to worse.

I have to applaud Ping's customer service. He is incredibly responsive to e-mails and delivers very quick.

 

[dnmun]

the concentric arrangement of wires is pretty common. the ground shield is the outer braided sleeve. but the solder joint to the pin inside the plug will crack from metal fatigue if it gets bent a bunch. always try to pull them apart by grasping the plug and not the wire, that will help long term.