Puch Maxi Full-Electric Conversion (Wuderbike)

[riba2233]

@louis raijmakers:The chain works great without any troubles.. I also forgot about the chain line, i was SL concentrated on the wings Thanks

@riba2233: Why arent you happy with the tires? I like them.. Mine are called sawa sport... Descirbe what you dont like, maybe i have used them for a too short time

@sean9002: Thanks a lot! if you want to buy some just contact me They are just for protection ; )

You have sava MC11 right? They seem good at first, but after some more serious riding you figure out that they aren't. And also they are useless in wet conditions, you have to be really careful, especially if the road is bad.

Now, I'm sorry but I must make two more notes.

You had frame that is made for mid mounted motor, and you didn't use that option but went hub motor road instead? Don't get mad but that's an epic fail.. Aslo, headway batteries are weak, extremely heavy and big, and too expensive. They are really bad choice in 2015, and they wont be able to feed your big hub motor. Also, hub motor is heavy, and batteries are heavy, so your bike will be heavy, have non optimal handling and large mass. With mid motor and modern batteries you would save big deal of mass and get proper level of power and capacity from battery. Just a note

 

[puchwudi]

Thank you for your advice my friend! I am very happy to get "bad" Feedback's too. I do use the Sawa mc11 because I got them for free I will collect some Miles / kilometers ... Maybe I change the tires Do you have a good recommendation for me?

I used a hub motor because of the recuperating function and the fact that I don't have to care about a primary chain And yes, you are right with your opinion but I want the bike look a little bit like a bicycle, so that I don't have to allow the vehicle

Last weekend I had the first test drive! I put together the battery and packed it into a backpack

I had 3 "long" trips with about 15km haha and I am definitely not happy with the endurance of the battery, its definitely too less capacity.

So i am going to build a 22s7p pack with Samsung 18650 25R.
that are about 154 cells And my plan is to integrate them into the chassis. I marked the changes with tape...

The cells will be connected(spot welded) with pure nickel strips (25mm width, 0.2mm thickness). Hopefully the 18650 come to me in the next week.

CU

 

[riba2233]

Smart decision, very nice!

I'm also looking for recommendation for new tires, even though mine have just 1100 km...

And btw you can get regen with mid drive, that's what I have and almost all electric mopeds and motorcycles

 

[madin88]

I'm also looking for recommendation for new tires, even though mine have just 1100 km...

also would like to know what tires you can recommend. On my bike that is made for street riding the Sava MC11 (17") are the third type of tires i run (went from 16" to 17") and i cannot say anyting bad about them, but i must say i have not ride them yet in really wet conditions. only a few times on moisty street and they felt ok.
Before i had Heidenau K36 i believe and Continental K62. Both did not felt comfortable because of poor balancing. The Heidenau was catastrophic and even after placing up to 30g balancing weight i was not able them to make them run without wobble - both front and rear! The Continental was much better and had good grip, but fast wear and its tread is more offroad..
After that i decided to stop ordering tires from the internet and went to a local moped store. He recommended the Sava and i very like them. They are balanced well and are not too heavy. Consumption is similar to my vector that has hookworm bicylce tires.
If i loose grip, im sure its more because of the big unsprung motor mass instead of the sava tires rubber compound.

 

[puchwudi]

Hej guys, got a little update for you ...

the frame got a new style ... now it has more room for the li-ion cells (I estimated 150 ... !!! possible 180!!!).

If its easy to install, then I will step up to 176cells (22s8p), the frame has been amplified with a pipe between seat and handlebar. we will also strengthen the vents on the outside with a strong metal plate, as you can see on the pictures

Here you have reference to the original frame ....

Hang on!

 

[riba2233]

Nice work! Adding support bar is very common modification to puch frames, they tend to break on jumps lol.

 

[Lebowski]

I'm also looking for recommendation for new tires, even though mine have just 1100 km...

also would like to know what tires you can recommend. On my bike that is made for street riding the Sava MC11 (17") are the third type of tires i run (went from 16" to 17") and i cannot say anyting bad about them, but i must say i have not ride them yet in really wet conditions. only a few times on moisty street and they felt ok.
Before i had Heidenau K36 i believe and Continental K62. Both did not felt comfortable because of poor balancing. The Heidenau was catastrophic and even after placing up to 30g balancing weight i was not able them to make them run without wobble - both front and rear! The Continental was much better and had good grip, but fast wear and its tread is more offroad..
After that i decided to stop ordering tires from the internet and went to a local moped store. He recommended the Sava and i very like them. They are balanced well and are not too heavy. Consumption is similar to my vector that has hookworm bicylce tires.
If i loose grip, im sure its more because of the big unsprung motor mass instead of the sava tires rubber compound.

For 17" I can really recommend the tires from Cheng Shin (aka CST or Maxxis). From the factory my Honda Wave110i stands on those and I am extremely
impressed with them. The bike handles really well with them. They should be good upto at least 100km/h as this is about the top
speed of my little Honda. The ones on my bike:

http://news.gibgummi24.de/reifen-fur-honda-wave-110i/1543/

 

[agniusm]

Funny enough I got an offer to buy non runner ktm foxi. Looks very similar to yours:

Would be a very nice retro mid-drive project. I can get it for 60€. Is it worth it?

 

[puchwudi]

@Lebowski: Sounds intresting!

@agniusm: Go and get it! Those bikes are awesome! 60€ is a present in my opinion! Buy it! Would be very intresting project!!!

 

[puchwudi]

UPDATE:

Side frame cut out and mounted...

The Samsungs cells arrived last week from nkon(fast, great support, great products!)

Thereupon I checked how many cells can be packed into the frame

It's a pity, but there is not enough space for it, so I had to mount a second frame on the other side, for winning 5mm frame with and space for putting the packs in.

I spent some hours in Linz (Upper Austria) this weekend and visited the ES member maddin88, which supported me with building the 25R battery packs. (He has great skills!!!)
we "wasted" a lot of thime with discussing Battery constellations...

But then we started glueing, cutting welding and so on

This is a great picture, I pushed the release of the DSLR in the perfect moment :lol:

I orderd pure Nickel strips (20mm*0.2mm) and (10mm*0.2mm) for welding the li-ion cells together. We didnt have any problems with Nickel, the welding procedure was very smooth

I supported the thin Nickel strips with thick cables, so that can resist the higher current.

Here you see one of the 5 packs, not yet finished!

Martin had great ideas for the battery packs, I was really happy to meet him We worked long enough and also got tired so shit happened ...

I wanted to try if this group still fits in the frame, I masked the anode/cathode with fabric tape, but forgot one corner.
So this was the result, the isolation of the cell got damaged by putting the pack in the frame...

 

[puchwudi]

hej guys, back from holidays

project still goes on! I finished the battery packs(corner protection etc.)

-) 2s8p frame side cover
-) 3s8p frame middle
-) 4s8p frame back
-) 5s8p frame back
-) 8s8p frame front (tank)

afterwards i had to check if the 8s8p block still fits... i need a little frame on the tank for mounting the lyen controller

Next steps were the "big" side covers (for BMS + 2s8p pack) which make the frame much thicker than estimated...

fitting the covers for the side opening

We also improved the fall outs for the hub

 

[izeman]

coming along really nicely. i can't wait to see (any maybe try) the finished bike

 

[beast775]

Excellent build,its going to be fun to ride.great work on the dropouts .

 

[madin88]

clamping dropouts. nice!
looking forward to see the finished bike

 

[puchwudi]

Hej guys! Thanks for your nice words I got some news 4 U ...

The parts are all painted and ready for reassemble.

I am really happy with the painters work! I used the original green from the old Puch Maxi and clearcoat from the automobile industry.

After analysing the surface, I started thinking about the battery mount procedure.

the front pack fits perfect into the frame, but has too much space to the side, so I am not yet happy with it... but there are loads of other things to do ...

Cromotor's side plates have also been painted on the outside (black), I used a high temperature exhaust-paint for the inside

NEWS COMING SOOOOON! :lol:

 

[EVTodd]

Very cool build!

I've been thinking about putting downhill front forks on my moped for a couple of years. How did you manage to get them to fit in the head tube? Was the head tube machined out to fit a larger headset?

 

[Sr.Agaporni]

Lot of work here. Thanks for sharing with us. You are a real artisan.

 

[puchwudi]

Very cool build!

I've been thinking about putting downhill front forks on my moped for a couple of years. How did you manage to get them to fit in the head tube? Was the head tube machined out to fit a larger headset?

Thank you very much! :lol:

Well especially for the Puch Maxi, you can buy some forks from EBR, they offer different types e.g. street racer, cross, ... I didnt want to use one of those, because they are too heavy, compared to a DH fork. There are options to fit it: adapter shell or changing the whole head tube. I have already seen both types! They seem to work even at racing conditions. I decided to change the whole head tube, to DH bike dimensions... Why? Because its much easier to get the right parts for the headset.

 

[puchwudi]

Lot of work here. Thanks for sharing with us. You are a real artisan.

Your welcome, my friend!

Last week I had enough time for finishing the Infineon controller... (black coated, R12 mod, 8AWG, 1000uF Rubicon caps, strengthened circuit path, changed connectors (JST), new heat transfer paste, programming..)

Next step were the side covers for the BMS and 2s8p pack...

left cover with speed limit and 3 speed switch

right cover with charging connection and igniton switch

Time to put the packs into the frame... I started with outpadding the inner side of the frame with a water repellent foamed material to protect the battery against damages due to movements.

double sided tape for mounting the foam

So I started with the tank battery, for a good fitting I secured it with solid foam for the reason that it cant move anywhere
(water helps for a better result, foam has been placed around the whole battery)

Well, there is no chanche to move it anymore For closing the tank we build this nice lid out of alluminium.

So I put in the other packs and secured them.

Most important thing for my battery --> BMS (Have a second one (boxed as new [ESD]) for SALE!)

some solder work

Everyone knows the work you have with those balancer cables ....

after checking balancer cables I mounted the BMS in the side cover...

Does anybody know how HOT this pcb gets under full load? I am tinking abour air slots underneath and at the back of the cover...

 

[Samd]

Great work - sub'd.

 

[puchwudi]

@ SamD Thanks a lot!

My bike is ready to run! I have already collected 130km in 3 days, but temperatrure isnt very pleasant out there!

I am going to continue step by step. ...

After soldering together the bms wires, I found out that they were a waaay too long, so started from the beginning and shorted each wire (waste of time!) For working on the bike, I build myself a quick and dirty wood frame, so that i can work on it conftable ...

Next step was finishing the mount for the controller beneaf the tank and mounting the side covers...

Bought the nice domino throttle they give you a nice feeling when driving

After getting back the parts from my painter, I found out that the Lower Outer Legs have been sandblasted inside so everythhing inside is unusable... So I ordered a service kit annd replaced them. Sounds easy but it wasnt for me ...

Dont ask me HOW? But I broke the bridge between the two leg haha

So I contacted my welding specialist and he fixed my mistakes (good man!!)

The material is very cheap, so as you can see it wasnt that easy, but I am happy for now, maybe I will ugrade to a new fork .... I had to replace the seals and bushes, therefore I used a simple washer to push them out from the inside.

All components of one fork side...

Mounted the steering head and handlebar...

READY TO RUN : )

Remove the tapes and ride it!!!

Last thing I changed was the simple mount of the CA and the DIY fenders.

Really powerful, loads of fun, I love this thing THANKS to all ES members which supported me with advises, products etc.!!!

 

[Simonvtr]

Very nice build +1
You should mount a pop head Hulk in the front fender.

 

[izeman]

nice good to see it running. how fast is it?
what max amps/power do you see on the CA?

 

[puchwudi]

Very nice build +1
You should mount a pop head Hulk in the front fender.

Thanks a lot I will think about it

@ izeman: Maximum speed are 85km/h (100%). I get a total Wattage between 7 - 8 kw.

I dont understand the following situation:

stillstand, full charged (92.4VDC) pulling full throttle --> ??BMS?? shuts down --> I can see the Voltage on the CA dropping to 0V... Bestech claims that their BMS can handle 80A constant, 200A (+/- 20%) peak current ... Do I hit the limits when starting from stillstand? Max. current for lyen controller is set to !80A!

Thx 4 support

 

[riba2233]

Well these "infineon" controllers have lousy current limit.. First few seconds they don't even limit current. You can set that time to 0, it's block time option in settings.