QSMOTOR,0.5-12kW Electric Hub Motor & Mid Drive Motor Manufacture China

[QSMOTOR]

about copper fill:
since the V3 type has different stator it also has differnt kV per turn count.
this means we need to compare motors with same kV / kT for.
for 9T motor this means:

QS V3: 24 strands
QS V2: 20 strands
Cromotor: 18 strands (seems to be even poorer than QS V2)
(Mxus: 16 strands)

Vito: Here is some correction about QS Motor.
For 205 3kW V3 type, 9kv
the winding is 24*5T, the sectional area of 24 strands per turn equal to 4.8mm², although the phase wire outside of motor is 8-10mm².
So it is meaningless to talk about phase wire outside of motor.
For 205 3kW V2 type, 9kV
The winding is 18*4, the sectional area of 18 strands per turn equal to 3.6mm², the phase wire outside of motor is 8mm².

Best Regards

 

[Samd]

here is a pm from vito re. freewheel and user guide:

Attached "QS Motor & Kits Manuals 2015.04.11.pdf" for reference.
Btw., is there any problem about thread for freewheel, we make it M35*1.
If any question, please feel free to contact with us.
l

RTL - Want to try one of my 12tooth freewheels? It certainly suits the MXUS I sent you! Wouldnt take more than a couple of days to tasmania....

 

[ridethelightning]

sounds good Sam. check yr pm :wink:

 

[Samd]

I got pinged by amberwolf for what could be seen as advertising my freewheels so to clear up any confusion I'll happily disclose that I'll send you one for free RTL. I just want the feedback as to fitment on a range of popular motors.

I'll await your pm.

 

[QSMOTOR]

Dear All,

Thank you very much for your interest about QS Motor.
Considering below points of 50H (magnetic height motor).
1. Thin Side Cover, it might be a problem after long time Braking.
2. Little Space between side cover and stator, the stator might touch side cover after long time running.

Here is improvement of new version below.
1. Increase thickness of Side Cover
2. Enlarge Space between side cover and stator
3. Integrated brake iron hoop for disc brake PCD6*44 with side cover.
4. Enlarge thread length from 8mm to 14mm (2mm relief groove).
5. Two sizes of thread for freewheel (1. English thread, 2. Metric thread)

As mentioned before, we are going to make new side cover, and estimated to be ready on 28th June. 2015.
During this time, these motors are not avaialbe.
Attached drawing "QS 205 3kW Spoke Hub Motor Drawing 150mm dropouts Metric thread 2015.5.18.pdf"
& "QS 205 3kW Spoke Hub Motor Drawing 150mm dropouts English thread 2015.5.18.pdf".
P.S.: For exporting, I would prefer to make it english thread ever since (to fit with DICTA Freewheel).
For regular customer, we could provide metric thread as before.

You are welcomed if any comment about the new drawing.

Best Regards

 

[ridethelightning]

i really like the thick flat area where the axle sits in the dropouts. this is the critical point of stress for torque/regen braking.
it makes sense to use the 30mm thick axle disign to full advantge and leave say, 6-12mm of this as a flat area on BOTH sides,where the shoulder is, for extra awesome strength.
i realise the axle is not quite as thick on the freewheel side, but it would be good to somehow have this large flat on both sides. thatway, even if its fairly soft steel, it would be nearly indestructable.
i realise this has nothing to do with the new sidecovers :lol:


I take my hat off to vito here for being so responsive generally and for giving us all this awesome oportunity to have input into this motor design.

 

[macribs]

Vito you think it will be possible to order th 50mm QS 205 v3 with water cooling?
And what about different winding, so motor is 6 phase (or dual 3 phase) so that the load from motor could be spread over two controllers?

IIRC QS motors already have other motors that are liquid cooled. And you also have 6 phase motors. If both those features would be added to the QS 205 v3 we would have the lightest and most powerful hub motor to use for electric bikes.

For electric bikes the weight of the QS 205 v3 is about as heavy as we can possible put in the rear wheel without destroying the ride quality and from memory your lightest water cooled motor is twice the weight (25 kilo) of the v3 205.

Is there any chance you could do a custom build of water cooled 6 phase version of the qs 205 v3? If we did manage to do a group buy how many orders would it take for you to do a custom build?

 

[madin88]

Vito: Here is some correction about QS Motor.
For 205 3kW V3 type, 9kv
the winding is 24*5T, the sectional area of 24 strands per turn equal to 4.8mm², although the phase wire outside of motor is 8-10mm².
So it is meaningless to talk about phase wire outside of motor.
For 205 3kW V2 type, 9kV
The winding is 18*4, the sectional area of 18 strands per turn equal to 3.6mm², the phase wire outside of motor is 8mm².

Best Regards

Vito, thank you so much for making it clear that one single strand has 0,2mm² cross section.
Knowing this makes it more easy to compare different motors - with the result that yours QS V3 will have the best performance,
followed by V2 (or Cromotor V2/V3 what many here only know under this name), and MXUS 3000 V2.

Also thank you for the infos about modifications you make on the sidecovers.
maybe you have overseen it, but im interested in V3 205 45H motor with the hope it will have less weight than Cromotor (you mentioned similar performance).
Do you know the weight of this type and what about dimensions of case? I guess it will be the same but only 5mm less wide. i am right with it?

 

[teslanv]

What is the benefit of 8mm2 phase wires outside of the motor, if the winding cross sectional area is only 3.6mm2.
Aren't you limited by the 3.6mm2 size in all cases?

 

[madin88]

What is the benefit of 8mm2 phase wires outside of the motor, if the winding cross sectional area is only 3.6mm2.
Aren't you limited by the 3.6mm2 size in all cases?

you have at least not so high losses from controller to the motor at very high phase amps (P loss = I² x R).

 

[Willow]

subscribed

 

[ridethelightning]

What is the benefit of 8mm2 phase wires outside of the motor, if the winding cross sectional area is only 3.6mm2.
Aren't you limited by the 3.6mm2 size in all cases?

i think you got some phases crossed there :lol:
as the cross section of the phase windings is WAY more than 3.6mm2 is say.

looking at them next to the stock phase wires, they are of comparable size..

 

[teslanv]

i think you got some phases crossed there :lol:
as the cross section of the phase windings is WAY more than 3.6mm2 is say.

I am just going by what Vito has told us...

Here is some correction about QS Motor.
For 205 3kW V2 type, 9kV
The winding is 18*4, the sectional area of 18 strands per turn equal to 3.6mm², the phase wire outside of motor is 8mm².

 

[parabellum]

What is the benefit of 8mm2 phase wires outside of the motor, if the winding cross sectional area is only 3.6mm2.
Aren't you limited by the 3.6mm2 size in all cases?

They can remove much more heat from the winding instead of contributing to it. As result, you can push more peak and more continuous current in to the motor. Also less risk to melt phase wire insulation, shorting phase wires, (which happened to me twice).

 

[cycborg]

i think you got some phases crossed there :lol:
as the cross section of the phase windings is WAY more than 3.6mm2 is say.

looking at them next to the stock phase wires, they are of comparable size..

Vito states 3.6 mm2 for 18 strands, giving 0.2 mm2 per strand. This would be a diameter of 0.5 mm. A couple pages back you gave a strand thickness of 0.6 mm, and when you account for insulation, this seems like a pretty small discrepancy. Am I missing something?

you have at least not so high losses from controller to the motor at very high phase amps (P loss = I² x R).

A meter of 4 mm2 wire has a resistance of about 4 microOhms, which at 100 A gives a loss of 40 mW. If you're trying to limit losses in your system, cutting this to 20 mW with 8 mm2 wire doesn't seem like the biggest bang for the buck.

 

[Doctorbass]

i think you got some phases crossed there :lol:
as the cross section of the phase windings is WAY more than 3.6mm2 is say.

looking at them next to the stock phase wires, they are of comparable size..

Vito states 3.6 mm2 for 18 strands, giving 0.2 mm2 per strand. This would be a diameter of 0.5 mm. A couple pages back you gave a strand thickness of 0.6 mm, and when you account for insulation, this seems like a pretty small discrepancy. Am I missing something?

you have at least not so high losses from controller to the motor at very high phase amps (P loss = I² x R).

A meter of 4 mm2 wire has a resistance of about 4 microOhms, which at 100 A gives a loss of 40 mW. If you're trying to limit losses in your system, cutting this to 20 mW with 8 mm2 wire doesn't seem like the biggest bang for the buck.

Hey.. a little typo here... a 4mm2 wire of 1m lengh is not 4 microohm but 4 MILIohms :wink: so the power is not 40mW but 40W of heat!

Cable Resistance Calculator:
http://www.epanorama.net/index.php?index=calc_cable
:wink:

Doc

 

[ridethelightning]

i think you got some phases crossed there :lol:
as the cross section of the phase windings is WAY more than 3.6mm2 is say.

looking at them next to the stock phase wires, they are of comparable size..

Vito states 3.6 mm2 for 18 strands, giving 0.2 mm2 per strand. This would be a diameter of 0.5 mm. A couple pages back you gave a strand thickness of 0.6 mm, and when you account for insulation, this seems like a pretty small discrepancy. Am I missing something?

you have at least not so high losses from controller to the motor at very high phase amps (P loss = I² x R).

A meter of 4 mm2 wire has a resistance of about 4 microOhms, which at 100 A gives a loss of 40 mW. If you're trying to limit losses in your system, cutting this to 20 mW with 8 mm2 wire doesn't seem like the biggest bang for the buck.

Hey.. a little typo here... a 4mm2 wire of 1m lengh is not 4 microohm but 4 MILIohms :wink: so the power is not 40mW but 40W of heat!

Cable Resistance Calculator:
http://www.epanorama.net/index.php?index=calc_cable
:wink:

Doc

this is good stuff! right to the guts of the matter!

as to the wire thickness. i measured 0.6mm dia/strand. there are not 18, but 24 of them in the V3. i dont think the varnish would make any diff.
im not much of a mathematician....the pie i like is the type you eat :lol:
but i can see when something is way off the mark, and thers no way its 3.6mm2 cross sectional dia /phase winding.

not calling anyone dumb or anything, its just what i can see.

 

[cycborg]

Hey.. a little typo here... a 4mm2 wire of 1m lengh is not 4 microohm but 4 MILIohms :wink: so the power is not 40mW but 40W of heat!

Ah, thanks for the correction - that factor of 1000 does bring it into the range where it's worth considering. I guess we really need to know the winding resistance to know the significance of 4 mOhm vs 2 mOhm lead resistance.

 

[cycborg]

i measured 0.6mm dia/strand. there are not 18, but 24 of them in the V3. i dont think the varnish would make any diff... thers no way its 3.6mm2 cross sectional dia /phase winding.

Right, Vito also said 4.8 mm2 for 24 strands. Assuming a strand thickness of 0.6 mm with zero insulation thickness, that would bring this up to 6.8 mm2, which would start to look like the 8 mm2 leads. Interesting that the specs on the copper fill might be understated.

 

[ridethelightning]

i measured 0.6mm dia/strand. there are not 18, but 24 of them in the V3. i dont think the varnish would make any diff... thers no way its 3.6mm2 cross sectional dia /phase winding.

Right, Vito also said 4.8 mm2 for 24 strands. Assuming a strand thickness of 0.6 mm with zero insulation thickness, that would bring this up to 6.8 mm2, which would start to look like the 8 mm2 leads. Interesting that the specs on the copper fill might be understated.

yeah, 6.8mm2 is looking more in the ballpark. ill take some detailed shot soon to show, but the info is already here..

 

[madin88]

this is good stuff! right to the guts of the matter!

as to the wire thickness. i measured 0.6mm dia/strand. there are not 18, but 24 of them in the V3. i dont think the varnish would make any diff.
im not much of a mathematician....the pie i like is the type you eat :lol:
but i can see when something is way off the mark, and thers no way its 3.6mm2 cross sectional dia /phase winding.

not calling anyone dumb or anything, its just what i can see.

what tool you have used to measure the strand?
trust me, the varnish makes a difference. just measure the diameter with and after chafing it off than you'll see.
i have measured 0,5mm (about 0,55mm with varnish) on my Cromotor and MXUS 3k which results in 0,2mm² and Vito has gave us the info that IT IS SO
4,8mm² is awesome and because of the different design of V3 stator, the total length of windings should be further bit shorter as on V2 stator which means even less resistance.

 

[Routybouty]

Wire codes.

 

[ridethelightning]

ok !

so the 12 freewheel of yours just arrived, Samd.

fits the mxus fine, but doesnt screw all the way on the qs.

nice little freewheel btw.

its odd as it screws on fine at the start, nice and smooth, then locks up about half way on.

perhaps its a tapered thread somewhere?

maybe slightly different?

ill keep trying but it doesnt look like its going to play nice.

any chance of a link to a freewheel that is in the pics on the invoice vito?

 

[Doctorbass]

ok !

so the 12 freewheel of yours just arrived, Samd.

fits the mxus fine, but doesnt screw all the way on the qs.

nice little freewheel btw.

its odd as it screws on fine at the start, nice and smooth, then locks up about half way on.

perhaps its a tapered thread somewhere?

maybe slightly different?

ill keep trying but it doesnt look like its going to play nice.

any chance of a link to a freewheel that is in the pics on the invoice vito?

The 12T freewheel i received from Barent both locks up at the end on the MXUS3000.

 

[Samd]

Hmm thats weird. I can follow what RTL says but not Doc. Strange that the QS doesnt go all the way up RTL!