randy's latest (mysteriously removed) post...

[d]

randy, it seems kind of sad that you would enter your electric motorcycle into a race against pedal-powered bicycles... i doubt any of the other participants were impressed by your "feat", in fact, I bet you were the ire of the race organizers and the butt of many a joke. and I also seriously doubt you would've been issued race numbers had they known what kind of "bike" you'd be showing up on. it seems like you are missing the whole point of this event. no wonder your behavior has led to electric bikes being outlawed in hawaii. the picture of you raising your hand in "victory" is especially sad and shows how clueless you are. it is not impressive to show that you can beat human powered bicycles with a motorized machine. why don't you also try crashing the tour de france? that'd be great for the image of electric bikes. and how many more times in the future will you continue to repost these old links which you've already posted numerous times before? the date on the article says August 2003, that's almost 4 years old! we've all seen it before, now please give it a rest.

 

[Lowell]

I was going to move that post to the video section, but it seemed pointless since it's a repost of a repost...

It would be a bit like taking an ebike on this ride: https://www.sporg.com/servlet/IndRegister?sporgEventID=64772
which I've done before on my road bike.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

Well said, d. I myself had been trying to imagine how anyone could do that and not feel hideously embarrassed.

 

[Instant Karma]

wtf- what post are you guys referring to? I guess you're talking about
the volcano climb. I have a couple of hub motors and I know they wouldn't go very far up a mountain even with a trailer full of batteries. I'm curious if a Currie setup geared just for climbing and a 600 watt BMC motor with a decent external controller and lithiums could have made it.

 

[Lowell]

Well said, d. I myself had been trying to imagine how anyone could do that and not feel hideously embarrassed.

http://www.foxsearchlight.com/theringer/

 

[Lowell]

wtf- what post are you guys referring to? I guess you're talking about
the volcano climb. I have a couple of hub motors and I know they wouldn't go very far up a mountain even with a trailer full of batteries. I'm curious if a Currie setup geared just for climbing and a 600 watt BMC motor with a decent external controller and lithiums could have made it.

A 250lb vehicle only needs 425W to the wheel to move up a 5.5% grade at 12mph. Add some extra power for the steeper sections and it could probably be done with 1800Wh.

My bike could easily make it up in under an hour if I switched my NiMH for good lithiums. As it is, I can run the X503 flat out at over 3000W until the batteries are dead with no heat issues. The only unknown would be the higher ambient temperatures of Hawaii, but extra air cooling would be easy to implement with a drill bit :lol: . The high altitude actually makes some difference as well, with the bike gaining around 3mph at 8000ft vs. sea level due to the thinner air. 2500W = 40.4mph at sea level, and 43.4mph at 8000ft.

So 3000W input power, 40mph average speed, 53min travel time = 2650Wh. Add an extra 25% and 3300Wh of battery should get the job done, or about 50lbs of quality lipos.

 

[Mathurin]

wtf- what post are you guys referring to? I guess you're talking about
the volcano climb. I have a couple of hub motors and I know they wouldn't go very far up a mountain even with a trailer full of batteries. I'm curious if a Currie setup geared just for climbing and a 600 watt BMC motor with a decent external controller and lithiums could have made it.

Type of motor is beside the point, it would be no different were it any other of the motorcycles you can see in "electric bicycle" section of this forum, such as safe or lowell's vehicles, but thing is randy entered his in a bicycle race, cycle to the sun I think it's called. The point is that it misses the idea of a bicycle race, completely, full stop, and without collecting 200$.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

wtf- what post are you guys referring to? I guess you're talking about
the volcano climb. I have a couple of hub motors and I know they wouldn't go very far up a mountain even with a trailer full of batteries. I'm curious if a Currie setup geared just for climbing and a 600 watt BMC motor with a decent external controller and lithiums could have made it.

We're talking about how he entered the 2003 Cycle To The Sun race, a bicycle race over 36 miles with an average uphill grade of 5% (as steep as 20% in parts). It's extremely tough and it's a big accomplishment to be able to complete it, especially quickly. The fastest person to complete it averaged 13.7 mph (2:38 to go 36 miles). Anyway, Randy entered it with his electric no-pedalling bike, which is kind of dumb. It's perfectly good for him to attempt it on any other day, but not in a human-endurance competition.

 

[Lowell]

Exactly, and even 4 years later he keeps posting about his 'accomplishment' everywhere he can.

This would really cut my swim times down: http://www.silent-submersion.com/SALTWATER/index.html :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[d]

real riders:

randy:

 

[knoxie]

Hi D

Yes that was very well put indeed, Randy's effort at the time was commendable considering the batteries he was using, there are batteries around now on a more standard machine that could do it.

The shame about Randall is 4 years later he is still harping on about it and I agree to enter in to a race against human powered machines is nothing to be proud about, to be fair to Randy at the time it was all about conquering the trip and nothing to do with racing against the Lycras, I remember the posts at the time over on PA.

With e-bikes it has always been about the batteries, this is the achillies heel in every system as far as range and power goes, I have hooked up 5hp motors to bikes before but you just cant get the batteries to make them fun for very long..

I don't agree with the policy of the moderators of deleting Randy's posts either, he should be free to post, I just don't read or respond to any of what I call "Boast Posts".

Randy is welcome to contribute here but he needs to bring something new to the table, everyone else myself included are posting all the time with new ideas, pictures of new kit batteries and pushing the limits and trying new gear, Randy doesn't and keeps on decrying what we do and post 4 year old bike videos.

The best thing with Randy is just to ignore him, he will eventually tire and move on to another forum.

Knoxie

 

[Lowell]

When the same post linking the same videos appears in Reviews & Testing, General and Pics/Videos, it's a bit much.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

I don't know which post was deleted but I'm sure they're only deleting the troll or redundant posts, which is perfectly normal and good for admins to do in any message-board. They haven't banned Randy though because they're not planning on deleting every post of his.

I understand his accomplishment of doing the climb, but it was inappropriate to do it during the race, entering himself into the race. It gives the impression to the cyclists and the spectators that he thinks he's competing with them. He should have attempted it some other time.

 

[d]

its also a big distraction for the real competitors who see him taking off on the front have to worry about trying to keep up; and also wondering whether they'll get second place because someone decided to bring a motor.

i've been in races before with my electric bike and a helmet cam, but I stayed behind the leaders and I was using the ebike as a camera platform to film the race, not to try and out-do the actual racers. it was also well known that I was not in contention unlike this situation where Randy had numbers pinned onto him.

it appears he's simply using the race as an opportunity to boast about how much faster he can go than the real riders who are just using their legs.

 

[EbikeMaui]

Most of you guys are so lost in your heavy Chineese hubmotors that will NEVER make it up such a mountain on its own power before frying.
If you are so sure you can make it up this volcano put $10,000 up and I will be glad to take it. Some one suggested 400 watts to go 12 MPH up this volcano on a 250 lb bike.. That person is totaly off his rocker. A 400 watt motor would burn up carrying a child up a few miles up on a 50 lb bike at 12 mph.
The purpose of entering the cycletothesun race was ONLY to get documented by the race crew. 2 minutes after I started the race I never saw another bike racer until I stopped for 20 minutes 1/8 mile from the summit and 3 Marvac Team racers passed me as I was sitting down overlooking the creator,Then I rode up the rest of the way behind them.
I have dessribed how to build such a record making system for a ebike but you rether be cheerleaders for your girlscout hub cookie team.
It is most of you who ARE THE LOOSERS! :lol:
See if I waste my time here any more. Hub motors are useless except for fixing.Come up with a equal REAL challange! All the BS I heard here is enough to puke.
Prove YOUR peices of chit.No Balls No Glory and you will be GirlScouts forever!

 

[xyster]

"How To Win Enemies & Alienate Everybody"
By Randy Draper

 

[Kyle]

and you will be GirlScouts forever!

I feel so Ashamed

 

[knoxie]

I Like that Xyster!!

You can have the best concept in the world but if nobody listens to you because your constantly rude to people there is little or no point other than to make yourself even more hated than you already are.

99.9% of the people on here just dont need that kind of hill climbing performance Randy, sure some of the off the shelf hub motors and other kits would burn up trying to go up the volcano you are right, but and here is the kicker they arent designed to as there is no need to!

You totally miss this point in your argument you assume we all need to climb volcanoes, most of us ride flat land where much simpler systems work perfectly well, nobody is denying your bike is great hill climber and is very efficient so why the constant jibes and insults?

So come on Randy play fair, I dont want your posts deleted and I don't want you banned either, just try and be a little more courteous, I agree with you on your system and would love to have a go at doing one I just need to source the sprocket and the rear geared hub, I have got pretty much everything else we can then compare notes!

You are pretty much right in what you say mostly, just appreciate that most people are happy with what they have, so there is no point in trying to change them.

Knoxie

 

[EbikeMaui]

You are pretty much right in what you say mostly, just appreciate that most people are happy with what they have, so there is no point in trying to change them.

Knoxie

Yes you are correct. People that live in a vacume SUCK :lol: The REAL winners are creative and go beyond what is just convient.This is why the ebike market has so many product failures and ex customers that will never go electric again.Now that hub motors are deemed gods gift to girls in this forum I should feel so blessed to be bitched at for comming up with a much better complete solution. :lol:

 

[Lowell]

What did you win? A bike race against a bunch of pedal bikers? :lol:

See if I waste my time here any more. Hub motors are useless except for fixing.Come up with a equal REAL challange! All the BS I heard here is enough to puke.

I see you're still wasting your time here, so name your race. Your $10,000 challenge is ridiculous, so it has to be a race easily duplicated by many members of the forum.

Some one suggested 400 watts to go 12 MPH up this volcano on a 250 lb bike.. That person is totaly off his rocker. A 400 watt motor would burn up carrying a child up a few miles up on a 50 lb bike at 12 mph.

In fact a 90lb child on a 50lb MTB would go up a 5.5% grade at about 16.5mph with 400W. 12mph would need only 255W.

 

[EbikeMaui]

What did you win? A bike race against a bunch of pedal bikers? :lol:

See if I waste my time here any more. Hub motors are useless except for fixing.Come up with a equal REAL challange! All the BS I heard here is enough to puke.

I see you're still wasting your time here, so name your race. Your $10,000 challenge is ridiculous, so it has to be a race easily duplicated by many members of the forum.

Some one suggested 400 watts to go 12 MPH up this volcano on a 250 lb bike.. That person is totaly off his rocker. A 400 watt motor would burn up carrying a child up a few miles up on a 50 lb bike at 12 mph.

In fact a 90lb child on a 50lb MTB would go up a 5.5% grade at about 16.5mph with 400W. 12mph would need only 255W.

Save yourself the $ and the burden. Gain any creaditability you can get by showing a video of your set up going up a 20 mile hill of greater than (5% average grade) untill your batteries are discharged to 80%.Then tell us how many miles were traveled and the actual watt hours used.This is the worst case any ebike may encounter so they should be tested for it with the accurate results.Better yet use a stock hubmotor with lead batteries. I dare you to test YOUR untested and uneducated conclusions. Since YOUR figurings are at 100% efficiency lets see YOUR actual figures showing a hubmotors efficiency WITHOUT ANY PEDALING. :lol: A 5 mile hill will more than prove the point but give it all you have and make some hot pancakes.

 

[Lowell]

Are you saying the Speed & Power calculator is incorrect? If so, please explain why.

 

[EbikeMaui]

Are you saying the Speed & Power calculator is incorrect? If so, please explain why.

No Just YOU are WRONG.

 

[knightmb]

I'll jump in as a 3rd party. Basically, we all live far away from each other. It's difficult to arrange a test when we can't put one e-bike next to the other. So, in the spirit of the discussion, basically the question is, will a cheapo or expensive e-bike that is direct drive, hub, etc kill over instead of a geared e-bike.

I won't get into which e-bike is better since we can't compare them side by side, but I will offer up a test on my own to document some real world results.

Using this to show you the hill.....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3245297223527610557

Fast forward the video to index 33 minutes 50 seconds with the cursor. This hill is steep enough to allow a bicycle to roll over 50 MPH, so I think it will be steep enough and long enough to test some of my own e-bikes with. The hill section I measured from the video at 9.2 miles to 9.5 miles at the bottom and what I will test. Basically 0.3 miles or 1,584 feet. Since I don't want to drive to East TN to do a 20 mile, 10,000 foot climb in the Smokey mountains on the e-bikes, I would rather stick with local. Everyone will have to live with the fact that I'm going to have to drive up the hill to a marker, turn around, coast back down, and drive back up over and over until the batteries die. So I'll just count the laps, do some simple math for distance and post the results. This will basically be a 20% grade uphill test for the motor and batteries with about a 30 second "rest" between each lap. Since both of them freewheel, everyone will have to live with the 30 second "rest" on these results, especially given this simulates a constant climb up a 20% grade never ending hill which is way more than the average than anything anyone can find at the moment.

I'm not bias or have anything to prove, so my results will be reported no matter how good or terrible both of my e-bikes do.

I'll be using for my test:

1. 36 volt Mongoose with 450 W Currie Motor
2. 48 volt Crystalyte 406 Front Hub Motor

As everyone knows, these will be the worse possible test e-bikes, the Mongoose gets barely 18 miles per charge and my 406 Crystalyte is certainly not designed to climb hills like this. I suspect the Mongoose will win the distance test, but who knows, I might be surprised.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

The purpose of entering the cycletothesun race was ONLY to get documented by the race crew.

I know. I believe you. But that is not the impression the cyclists or spectators would have had.