Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"
- Thread starter Toshi
- Start date
The fingers
10 TW
We used to have a 1989 Jeep Wrangler S, I'm sure it would have flipped and rolled in that same test. 
Solution: Follow the vehicle handling guidelines on the visor warning label, hit the stupid moose broadside and let the air bags do their job. At least you get a freezer full of moose meat in some states for your trouble, or the Department of Fish and Game will donate the meat to a food bank for you. Trying to avoid hitting an animal can have disastrous consequences. :wink:
Solution: Follow the vehicle handling guidelines on the visor warning label, hit the stupid moose broadside and let the air bags do their job. At least you get a freezer full of moose meat in some states for your trouble, or the Department of Fish and Game will donate the meat to a food bank for you. Trying to avoid hitting an animal can have disastrous consequences. :wink:
That video of the Jeep is crazy 
I'm aware of the moose test and that some SUVs will pass, hence my trying to think of a more severe standard manoeuvre. Perhaps The Scandinavian Flick isn't as well-known as I'd hope. It's a manoeuvre that deliberately provokes over steer and will flip a top-heavy vehicle or make a balanced vehicle go sideways and is the best example of proving inherent stability I could think of.
The CUV's you mention clearly don't count, as you stated you require the ground clearance and off-road ability of a true 4x4
Toshi said:
I'm aware of the moose test and that some SUVs will pass, hence my trying to think of a more severe standard manoeuvre. Perhaps The Scandinavian Flick isn't as well-known as I'd hope. It's a manoeuvre that deliberately provokes over steer and will flip a top-heavy vehicle or make a balanced vehicle go sideways and is the best example of proving inherent stability I could think of.
The CUV's you mention clearly don't count, as you stated you require the ground clearance and off-road ability of a true 4x4
arkmundi
10 MW
A Jeep Cherokee was my first SUV, when I developed a love affair with the class. Red & sweet. Can't dis my ex.
But I wonder, having seen the video, adding in some computer based stability control, what might be done if each wheel, like a Volt, had an independently controlled hub motor. So wheels can be activated as part of a stability algorithm. In the interest of saving the planet from the scourge of the murder machines, and for the sake of recycling, I believe we need to start retrofitting older vehicles with electric hubs. Not hybrid - full on electric. But with a sophisticated onboard computer & controller, there may be significant additional benefits like saving lives in a road emergency situation.
But I wonder, having seen the video, adding in some computer based stability control, what might be done if each wheel, like a Volt, had an independently controlled hub motor. So wheels can be activated as part of a stability algorithm. In the interest of saving the planet from the scourge of the murder machines, and for the sake of recycling, I believe we need to start retrofitting older vehicles with electric hubs. Not hybrid - full on electric. But with a sophisticated onboard computer & controller, there may be significant additional benefits like saving lives in a road emergency situation.
Toshi
10 kW
Punx0r said:
Grading road vehicles by a maneuver used to get cars sideways in anticipation of a turn in rallies is equally ridiculous as me picking a vehicle for conditions it'll see 0.1% of the time.
I think you should have picked better numbers...
0.1% incidence, assuming you drive every day means it's certain to happen in under three years of driving, with the result being a horrendous crash that seriously endangers the lives of the occupants. Getting stuck because your car doesn't have sufficient ground clearance is merely an inconvenience.
I've been sideways in cars a few times in my life, thankfully without incident.
Arkmundi, what you mention is already widely implemented by using the ABS system to individually brake each wheel to prevent over-steer. It does help avoid a spin, but reduces manoeuvrability as you get under-steer instead. Potentially, you simply hit the object you were trying to swerve around. Electronic Stability Control was made mandatory for all new cars sold in the EU from November 2014.
As with many driver aids it's a poor substitute for good car control by a skilful driver. It's also a Band-Aid for cars that have a tendency to fall over.
0.1% incidence, assuming you drive every day means it's certain to happen in under three years of driving, with the result being a horrendous crash that seriously endangers the lives of the occupants. Getting stuck because your car doesn't have sufficient ground clearance is merely an inconvenience.
I've been sideways in cars a few times in my life, thankfully without incident.
Arkmundi, what you mention is already widely implemented by using the ABS system to individually brake each wheel to prevent over-steer. It does help avoid a spin, but reduces manoeuvrability as you get under-steer instead. Potentially, you simply hit the object you were trying to swerve around. Electronic Stability Control was made mandatory for all new cars sold in the EU from November 2014.
As with many driver aids it's a poor substitute for good car control by a skilful driver. It's also a Band-Aid for cars that have a tendency to fall over.
Toshi
10 kW
I think you should read my wording more carefully before being such a pedant. 0.1% refers to my off-road use of my Land Cruiser, and is actually an underestimation. Incidence of sane drivers doing a Scandinavian Flick on the road is far closer to zero.
I'm not suggesting anyone would. It's easily done inadvertently by swerving, like in the moose test.
Do you deny that the inherent instability of many SUV's somewhat erodes their supposed safety credentials? I mentioned it because you seemed to have over-looked the issue in determining that it's the safest possible thing to drive. I think you will find that head-on crashes are relatively rare compared to single-vehicle incidents due to loss of control.
Do you deny that the inherent instability of many SUV's somewhat erodes their supposed safety credentials? I mentioned it because you seemed to have over-looked the issue in determining that it's the safest possible thing to drive. I think you will find that head-on crashes are relatively rare compared to single-vehicle incidents due to loss of control.
Eclectic
1 kW
It was the early nineties. Driving down the freeway at 65-70 mph. 2 lanes over a Ford Bronco starts to change lanes. They must have had a hard time seeing the other small car that was already in that lane. The small car started honking their horn. The Bronco must have realized what was going on and quickly tried to return to their lane. 1 second later it was on it's side skidding down the lane before rolling over again. It was literally nothing more than a minor aborted lane change. The type of maneuver that I have seen other vehicle perform dozens if not hundreds of time before.
I realize that things have changed since then but it was a very typical driving situation that turned very dangerous for a lot of people because it was the wrong vehicle being used for the wrong purpose.
I realize that things have changed since then but it was a very typical driving situation that turned very dangerous for a lot of people because it was the wrong vehicle being used for the wrong purpose.
Toshi
10 kW
I agree that cars are more stable. In the empirical data mass seems to be a bigger factor, however. (I also considered a massive car, such as the Lexus LS, but decided I wanted off road ability since I live in Denver.)
dnmun
1 PW
Eclectic said:
i never come to this thread, and just had to comment because i also saw an identical rollover on the freeway by a ford explorer just like this bronco. i was driving west on I80 outside rawlings and on the other side a ford explorer in the passing lane did a little half jog when the driver musta reached for something, and totally lost control. rolled side over side three times. wheels broken off and thrown out on the freeway. i drove across the median and parked my car to warn traffic oncoming with the blinkers and then ran over to the lady in the car and she was totally unconscious. but totally lucky to still be inside. windows all broken out, we could only get one door open to reach her and she still had a pulse. my only real time serious accident ever witnessed.
my old girlfriend and her hubby rolled a ford explorer on I95 in pennsylvannia pulling a trailer when the trailer tire blew out and the trailer jacknifed the car into rolling. they were lucky to survive but both had seatbelts on but she broke a window out with her head. she got her medication mary j card out of it.
The fingers
10 TW
Fifteen passenger vans are notorious for rolling over and killing the occupants. People would drive at 80 mph in hot weather with underinflated defective tires and roof racks piled with luggage and camping equipment, not wearing seat belts properly and the passenger compartment full of junk. There were many solo accidents and head on collisions that gained national attention, the worst being during the Firestone tire recall. 
