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Re: How often should the rechargeable battery of an electric car be replaced?

The reality for many, currently 98% of US drivers, is that they just want to get in and drive, they don't want to have to think about ranges, or charge times with free solar - sunny days- . The 10 minutes they spend at the servo filling up every week is a habit now too, like going shopping, they don't consider it, I don't. The same with yearly or 6 monthly services. All hybrids need servicing too of course, the oil changed etc, so you're not gaining anything there with them. What you are doing is paying a few thousand more for a car in the expectation that it will save you a few thousand or more over the life of the battery. But what's a hybrid worth when it's battery is near stuffed?

Do the buyers realize that the electric motor augments them when pulling away from the lights, when overtaking? When climbing long hills? Take the battery away and you have a gutless 4-cyl Atkinson cycle engine that couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Definitely a car for the elderly. The vast majority of modern hybrid electric vehicles use Atkinson cycle engines to maximize fuel efficiency. And don't forget most recharge the battery off the ice engine too, which is very inefficient. Combustion power with all it's losses into to a mechanical generator and then to a chemical storage battery with associated losses. But they are very fuel efficient. as most small gutless engines are. My sister bought the Toyota corolla hybrid and she insisted that the battery recharged itself by regenerative braking. The salesman told her so. I went the Australian website and they said it there too! A bold faced lie. I had to pull up a UK Toyota website to get the truth, that the lion's share in fact comes from generating electricity when running on petrol. So a gutless engine pulling a car AND recharging the battery at the same time. Lovely. I'll stick with petrol.
The main difference with an EV would be that they would no longer need to go to the gas station. Assuming you have a garage, or some way to charge while parked at home, the charging can be done at night while you sleep 90% of the time, thereby taking 15 seconds of your time to plug in when you get home.

It's not like going to the gas station is some huge encumbrance, but it's not like charging an EV is either, that's the point. I'm not sure what the rant about hybrids is for, if you have a plug in hybrid and the battery is full, then you are likely running in electric mode with the engine off (perhaps not for highway driving). Not all hybrids run an Atkinson cycle, and some with variable valve timing can run Atkinson for efficiency and behave like a normal engine when power is required.

No need to discuss the power of a hybrid without its battery- have you considered how many HP a car without a gas tank has?

Most hybrids do charge their battery via regen when possible, but regen predominantly functions to save brake pad usage and allow the engine to run in it's peak efficiency band for longer. This is how regen has always worked and continues to work.

If you weren't aware, the point is that the hybrid has a strong electric motor to support the gas engine. You don't need a continuous high power output, and a big engine is inefficient.

For example, the Toyota prius prime has about 220 HP from the motor and the engine combined, and according to some random website, can do 0-60 in 6.3 seconds, with a "combined mpg" of 52 mpg. That's more power than plenty of standard cars have, and double the mpg of many cars with that much power otherwise. Gutless, I'm sure.
 
The problems with hybrids are mainly that they stack the cost and maintenance of both systems and add unnecessary mass versus either one. It is a dumb design like a steam powered car also pulled by horses. But hey, you can keep going when you run out of coal.
 
The problems with hybrids are mainly that they stack the cost and maintenance of both systems and add unnecessary mass versus either one. It is a dumb design like a steam powered car also pulled by horses. But hey, you can keep going when you run out of coal.
They were introduced as the transition car to full EV, and now EV has failed they are going back to them? Plugin hybrid sales are minuscule compared to basic hybrids and that because people, average people, not the Beta testers, don't want to bother with all that recharging stuff. Their sales far outstrip pure EV sales now and that's one reason they are rebranding them as NEVs and whatnot, to try and bundle all the variants under the EV banner and hide the fact EV sales have plummeted, Worldwide. Especially in China which was the Bright spot for the last year and more.

Hybrids are bought by many people who are clueless and easily manipulated by salesmen in car yards basically. There is rarely an advantage to them aside from some inner city applications. And still you're left with a dismal resale value at end of life. They are a placebo for people who want to be Green and still eat their cake.

Hybrids currently dominate Australian electrified vehicle sales over Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) due to consumer preference for familiar technology, lack of range anxiety, and high fuel efficiency. While BEV sales growth has slowed, hybrid and plug-in hybrid (PHEV) sales are surging

So much for the Great transition away from ICE.
 
I bought the hybrid version of my KIA SUV because the gas version was underpowered for the size of the car. Test drove them both. Should have bought the plug-in though, but wait time was too long,
 
Back in 2019 I saw similar threads; my conclusion was that ICE lovers are really stubborn, so I figured they would be willing to pay lots more for gas.
So I bought cheap oil stocks BTE $1.22, and OBE 0.47. both in Canada.
THANK YOU EV haters, my OBE has gone past $13.
This is why I ride an ebike but own oil stocks. Got to keep those customers happy.
If it wasn't for people hating EV's, I'd not be making much, so THANK YOU.
 
THANK YOU EV haters, my OBE has gone past $13.

If it wasn't for people hating EV's, I'd not be making much, so THANK YOU.
I don't play the stock market, but if I did I have no doubt I would have short-sold all the US EV startups back when they topped out in 2021. They have all collapsed now and I would have made a killing. Canoo Inc, $5621 in 2021, $0.00020 today. Rivian $130 down to $16 today. A total wipe-out across the sector.

But I have news for you, there are no EV haters, it's just that EV-only advocates can't seem to accept that anyone would question the technology and they get upset and project hate. If the EVs grew on trees I would probably be a fanboi myself, but they are make in fossil fuel powered factories from fossil fuel powered mining and that's why they have always been more expensive. EVs themselves have driven oil prices higher simply by the added demand they created. But not anymore hey.

The three stages of truth in regard to technology, as proposed by Schopenhauer works both ways. First it is ridiculed, then vehemently denied, then in the end, accepted as self-evident. It is the end result that determines which way. If it fails to deliver, if it fails to be universally accepted, then the truth is it was a poor technology for society as a whole all along. I have never ridiculed the EV, never vehemently denied the tech, I simply looked at it from an economic and practical application point of view and came to the conclusion it wasn't going to be the replacement for conventional vehicles. They are basically fun runarounds for wealthy middleclass people who own their own homes, with off-street parking, and can afford a roof covered in solar. Take away the middleclass roof and your running costs approach that of a Gasoline powered car with today's electricity prices.

That was a hard to defend position 3 or even 2 years ago when all the hype was still in full swing. Now there is no hype, just millions of cars piling up on lots and sitting in fields, and a barely started national supercharger network no one is interested in expanding. In other words it's becoming self-evident the great transition was a hoax. It could have worked mind you, and I'll be the first to proclaim that. But not with 2 ton family cars as the basis. Some dream transition, some reordering of the entire transport grid where the majority of roads were free of truck transport so little lightweight EVs could be safely driven about. But that's only a dream, and I live firmly in the real world.
 
If the EVs grew on trees I would probably be a fanboi myself, but they are make in fossil fuel powered factories from fossil fuel powered mining and that's why they have always been more expensive.

Owning other humans who work to make profit for you was a solid business model in the past. Petroleum is like that now. People know it is wrong but they are lazy and apathetic or worse. This will not end well but it will end.
 
A healthy human produces about 0.6 kW of physical work per day. About 3 hours of cycling @ 200W. A single barrel of oil contains roughly 1,700 kWh of energy, which when used in machines performs the equivalent work of approximately 5 years of manual human labor. An "invisible" workforce providing economies with the equivalent of around 100 "fossil-powered" workers for every living person. In short, a miracle.
 
Older says
"But I have news for you, there are no EV haters, it's just that EV-only advocates can't seem to accept that anyone would question the technology and they get upset and project hate. If the EVs grew on trees I would probably be a fanboi myself, but they are make in fossil fuel powered factories from fossil fuel powered mining and that's why they have always been more expensive. EVs themselves have driven oil prices higher simply by the added demand they created. But not anymore hey."
.
the energy to build EV's is not oil. when oil is mined they also get natural gas which is burned off if it can't be sold.
Factories buy the natural gas or electricity that it generates. So the factory products do not waste energy, they use wasted energy, quite the opposite of what you thought.
 
Take the battery away and you have a gutless 4-cyl Atkinson cycle engine that couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Definitely a car for the elderly. The vast majority of modern hybrid electric vehicles use Atkinson cycle engines to maximize fuel efficiency.
The beauty of the pseudo Atkinson/Miller cycle engine is, it allows you to run a larger displacement engine so you get both better power and efficiency than the same vehicle with a normal cycle ICE. The problem is, no vehicle manufacturer does this with their modern cars. Likely this is due to CAFE restrictions. The Atkinson can get down and boogie when sized properly for that type behavior. 1500cc isn't doing that no matter the combustion cycle type.

I guess I agree with you on the "stick with petrol" thing based on what I drive. I have leased EV's due to incentives making it stupidly cheap to do so. They can be wonderful cars, just like ICE cars can be. The thing in the past where used EV's were much more expensive than used ICE cars is changing too. The used EVs get cheaper and used ICE vehicles are getting more and more expensive. At least the good used ICE cars are going up. It seems that shoppers on the used market are starting to agree with you and I based on price trends.
 
The beauty of the pseudo Atkinson/Miller cycle engine is, it allows you to run a larger displacement engine so you get both better power and efficiency than the same vehicle with a normal cycle ICE. The problem is, no vehicle manufacturer does this with their modern cars. Likely this is due to CAFE restrictions. The Atkinson can get down and boogie when sized properly for that type behavior. 1500cc isn't doing that no matter the combustion cycle type.

I guess I agree with you on the "stick with petrol" thing based on what I drive. I have leased EV's due to incentives making it stupidly cheap to do so. They can be wonderful cars, just like ICE cars can be. The thing in the past where used EV's were much more expensive than used ICE cars is changing too. The used EVs get cheaper and used ICE vehicles are getting more and more expensive. At least the good used ICE cars are going up. It seems that shoppers on the used market are starting to agree with you and I based on price trends.
The EV is a lifestyle choice, you choose to have to plug it in every day or so, you choose to limit your driving to shorter distances or to places that have chargers en-route. You choose to accept lower ranges in Winter if you want to run the heaters and the same in Summer if you want the A/C unit on. A lot of this stuff wasn't evident or even talked about when most people bought them but it's all common knowledge now. I have to assume the collapsing sales is simply due to the fact that most people don't want that sort of lifestyle, not now that the guilt trips and incentives are gone.

I'd never willingly own one, nor would I willing own a large Diesel truck like many people drive. Choices, we all have the right to them supposedly.
 
The EV is a lifestyle choice, you choose to have to plug it in every day or so, you choose to limit your driving to shorter distances or to places that have chargers en-route.

Etc etc etc like the banality of evil in all its many forms. People have accommodated to the wild absurdities of petroleum cars but have not begun to take EV operating parameters as given, even when they are easier and obviously better.

They are so close to getting it. All they must do is sleep in their cars in their closed garages with the engines running. In this way the ice car can finally do the rest of us at least some small favor to compensate for what it has taken from us.
 
The EV is a lifestyle choice, you choose to have to plug it in every day or so, you choose to limit your driving to shorter distances or to places that have chargers en-route. You choose to accept lower ranges in Winter if you want to run the heaters and the same in Summer if you want the A/C unit on. A lot of this stuff wasn't evident or even talked about when most people bought them but it's all common knowledge now. I have to assume the collapsing sales is simply due to the fact that most people don't want that sort of lifestyle, not now that the guilt trips and incentives are gone.

I'd never willingly own one, nor would I willing own a large Diesel truck like many people drive. Choices, we all have the right to them supposedly.
Things are finally changing.....with the new battery tech....ev range, cold temperatures, and charge time are exponentially improving, even surpassing older gasser tech.

For example...(this IS real)
 
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