I am an older rider and just bought a Catike recumbent trike. I have heart problems and find that I can't keep up with other riders. It has a triple chain ring in front and a 10 spd rear cassette. I would like to keep it so that I can use it with out engaging the motor except as needed. I am considering a mid drive but would lose the triple in front. Has anyone had experience with the SCAM three speed hub with the cassette gears? Perhaps I would be better served by having a rear geared hub motor. Any suggestions as to what set up or what products to use? Thanks
recubent trike
- Thread starter Stephen2
- Start date
Look up Rassy's trike, using a hubmotor as a middrive. It's back behind the seat so there's no need to lose the front rings, or any of the shifting stuff on the rear.
dogman dan
1 PW
Rear hub motor, geared type, but you'll have to convert to 9 or even 7 speed rear gear.
chvidgov.bc.ca
10 kW
I have an E-Catrike that I made using a Nine-Continent direct drive rear hub motor. It worked out fine and is very fast compared to my normal bikes. I did sacrifice the rear cluster for a 7 speed freewheel. A nice upgrade are "Silver" shifters (friction) on the front which lets the long chain be compensated for easily as it stretches. I would recommend the hub motor, perhaps a Mac or an EZee as well, although I like the relative quiet of the 9C compared to my Ezee. The geared motors have more torque though, but this is not an issue. There is just enough room right behind the seat for a decent sized pack on each side - by far the best spot for the packs - otherwise handling sucks with the packs on the back rack. i improvised some cutaway wire baskets to pipe clamp to the frame, and the packs just slot in from the sides into the baskets.
mikebikerad
1 kW
I agree with comments above, for what you are looking for I would select a geared rear hub motor. I have a direct drive crystallyte motor on my recumbent trike but it is too heavy, and difficult to pedal for what your after. If you want to keep up with other cyclists but keep it light, simple, and easy to pedal, geared hub would be my top choice.
ebent
10 kW
Which model catrike? I had a pocket that I motorized. I added a 750 watt rear hub. Don't worry about less gears. I did. Shouldn't have. With a motor you need less. A triple in front is a benefit though. I moved the battery 3 times. With a few variables, the top of the battery box needs to be below the rear axle and the back of the box needs to be in front of the rear axle. I wanted big range so I had 2 boxes of batteries attached to both chain stays. It finally worked. Before I had the batteries right I was a time bomb that fortunately did not go off.
I've owned a Catrike and now an HPV FS26.
The Catrike Boom is rather lightweight for a Mid Drive. HPV has a much stronger boom. I tried the BBS02 on my HPV with a DD3. At 500 watts its not bad, but I went back to the MAC 10T.
This article might help:
http://www.triketech.com/Drivetrain/PowerAssist/PowerAssist.html
Send me a PM if you have any questions.
The Catrike Boom is rather lightweight for a Mid Drive. HPV has a much stronger boom. I tried the BBS02 on my HPV with a DD3. At 500 watts its not bad, but I went back to the MAC 10T.
This article might help:
http://www.triketech.com/Drivetrain/PowerAssist/PowerAssist.html
Send me a PM if you have any questions.
Rassy
1 MW
AW mentioned my trikes with the hub motor as a mid-drive. Some thoughts about that. I just use a single freewheeling chain wheel up front, and did not like the system without the freewheel. The motor is very close to the back wheel and might not work good with a derailleur system because of the cross chaining introduced in low or high gears. Very hard to pedal without using the motor, most of which is probably due to the inefficiency of the NuVinci.
The weight and hard to pedal without using the motor are what prompted me to put together the Performer Trike with a BBS02 earlier this year. I am very happy with the setup and would not hesitate to recommend it. It has become my favorite ride. The lack of a front triple isn't much of an issue, since the trike will climb up to 20% grades and will also run up to 25mph on the flat. One of my trike riding buddies rode a tadpole for years with no electric assist and seldom used anything but the middle chain wheel on his 27 speed system.
Good luck with your build whatever you decide to install on it.
The weight and hard to pedal without using the motor are what prompted me to put together the Performer Trike with a BBS02 earlier this year. I am very happy with the setup and would not hesitate to recommend it. It has become my favorite ride. The lack of a front triple isn't much of an issue, since the trike will climb up to 20% grades and will also run up to 25mph on the flat. One of my trike riding buddies rode a tadpole for years with no electric assist and seldom used anything but the middle chain wheel on his 27 speed system.
Good luck with your build whatever you decide to install on it.
Two issues with the BBS02 on a Catrike.
First is the boom flex. Thin wall 2" ally tubing is lightweight but also flexes. Not too bad for shorter riders due to the shorter moment arm. Given more then 18" between the BB center and the cruciform and flex could become a problem with keeping the chain on. It's also pretty stressful on the cruciform welds.
Second is the weight distribution. Catrikes are typically a bit front heavy as it is lifting the rear tire on hard stops. Moving the battery to the rear offsets that but generally that also means mounting it above the rear tire making it a lot less stable in turns.
Mid drives are great on bikes and some trikes, but I wouldn't recommend it on a Catrike.
First is the boom flex. Thin wall 2" ally tubing is lightweight but also flexes. Not too bad for shorter riders due to the shorter moment arm. Given more then 18" between the BB center and the cruciform and flex could become a problem with keeping the chain on. It's also pretty stressful on the cruciform welds.
Second is the weight distribution. Catrikes are typically a bit front heavy as it is lifting the rear tire on hard stops. Moving the battery to the rear offsets that but generally that also means mounting it above the rear tire making it a lot less stable in turns.
Mid drives are great on bikes and some trikes, but I wouldn't recommend it on a Catrike.
bentstrider83
10 mW
Hi, still a bit new to the forum as I haven't really posted here all that much.
I'm looking at placing the Dillenger Bafang kit onto my Catrike Expedition in order keep it as quick, or quicker a ride as my non-powered single-speed(fast on my single-speed, slow as a joke on my trike).
Reading the post directly above mine, I figure my boom length isn't as extended out as much(I'm about 5'8ish), so the flex and threat to the welds shouldn't be too much of an issue.
As far as the loss of the triple-crank goes, I was thinking of switching the rear wheel to one of those cassette-equipped, IGH hubs with a three speed to compensate for the loss.
Overall, I'm looking into one of these Bafang 750 kits for added speed and power for pulling a sound system trailer on party and social rides.
Especially in hilly places like Albuquerque and such.
I'm looking at placing the Dillenger Bafang kit onto my Catrike Expedition in order keep it as quick, or quicker a ride as my non-powered single-speed(fast on my single-speed, slow as a joke on my trike).
Reading the post directly above mine, I figure my boom length isn't as extended out as much(I'm about 5'8ish), so the flex and threat to the welds shouldn't be too much of an issue.
As far as the loss of the triple-crank goes, I was thinking of switching the rear wheel to one of those cassette-equipped, IGH hubs with a three speed to compensate for the loss.
Overall, I'm looking into one of these Bafang 750 kits for added speed and power for pulling a sound system trailer on party and social rides.
Especially in hilly places like Albuquerque and such.
docnjoj
1 GW
My Mad Max has a Cute100H and 16 AH of Lipo. Simple and easy to put on. You must pedal with the Q100H but exercise is what it is all about.
otherDoc
otherDoc
bentstrider83 said:
I did use the SRAM Dualdrive DD3 when I tested the BBS02 but cut back the power from 750 to 500 watts. That may work OK on a Catrike but be sure to order an extra tabbed lockring with the DD3 as it otherwise may tend to work loose. Low gear (hub) applies a clockwise torque while high gear causes anti-clockwise torque which tends to loosen the axle nuts with higher chain forces from the motor.
An article on the BBS02 on a trike is published here.
bentstrider83
10 mW
Triketech said:
That'll definitely be something to look into in the near-future should I go that route as well.
For now though, I'm just going to go with the existing setup on the trike and see how well it works with the Bafang kit once I get it.
ebent
10 kW
I don't get it. On November 15, Stephen2 started this thread. Many chimed in to help him. But no word from Stephen. Why start the thread?
icerider
100 W
Stephen,
It sounds like we are in a similar position. If it were not for the Bionx system on my Terratrike Cruiser, I would not ride consistently (or possibly at all) and I certainly would not be able to keep up with the friends I ride with. WITH the Bionx, I ride consistently and get both the exercise I badly need and 40 minutes a day of quiet alone time.
I believe that the current generation Bionx systems offer a cassette mount that accommodates cassettes up to 10 speed.
For example: http://www.nycewheels.com/bionxpl350-sl-electricbike-motorkit.html. This says it is a 350W kit, but this system will put out up to about 800 Watts riding uphill in max assist.
I have ridden a Bionx-assisted Terratrike Cruiser for a couple of years now and LOVE the trike. The torque sensitive assist (motor power depends on how hard you are pedaling) makes the bike fluid and natural under all circumstances. I have a throttle but rarely bother to touch it. I have an older version of the model shown in the link. Mine accommodates a freewheel up to 8 speeds and was fully compatible with my older Terratrike, just swapped over the freewheel onto the motor.
The riding experience is perfectly natural, you ride the bike the same way you always did, changing gears when you need to to accommodate your cadence. In the lower levels of assist (e.g. 50% assist) you are only marginally aware of the motor assisting at all and the motor is completely silent. At the higher levels of assist (300%), you feel super human tearing up hills and running 20mph in the flats. There is a tiny sound which I THINK is spoke noise but might be coming from the motor. The rider is the only person who can hear it anyway. Chain and gear noise is much louder. I am quiet enough to routinely sneak up on various wildlife. Most of my riding is on the flat (down in Tucson) or on steep rolling hills (at home). The hills are steep but relatively short 8-12% grade but only 100-200 yards long, I just DRIVE up them with high pedal force and max assist, this keeps the wheel RPM up and keeps the motor power high and efficient. This system is, bluntly, a JOY to ride and I can keep up with pretty much anybody (at least up to 20mph). My only real point of comparison is 2000+ miles on a Prodeco Phantom X2 which is a throttle based e-bike (no pedal sensor). The Prodeco is a cheap-ish 500W DD system made with decent quality Chinese parts and was (and still is) fun to ride, but the riding experience does not compare to the Bionx systems.
I have four complete Bionx systems with six batteries, all purchased at bargain basement prices from the original owners on Craigslist, two on bikes, and two as used "kits". I have moved them between bikes and put them on new bikes (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74729) with good success and little trouble. In two years of daily riding (10-11 miles) on two Bionx equipped bikes, I have not had any failures. With that said, my oldest system (circa 2008-2009) is gradually getting eccentric and does not always turn OFF when commanded so that one may be on its way to dying.
Before I am accused of being a shill for Bionx (again), let me note:
Sadly the picture does not show the motor well, but you can see the battery mounting position. This is the standard downtube battery and mount. I am heavyset and my pant leg occasionally brushes the battery housing, but there is no contact with my leg.
Your post does not say where you live except in the USA. If you lived in Tucson I would send you to AJO Bikes to talk to them about electrifying your Catrike. Look for a local Bionx dealer. Many of them are also familiar with other electric assist systems as well. Unless you are itching to do the DIY thing or are a good bike mechanic, I would recommend professional installation which ought to run no more than $100 unless you have a custom wheel built. With the added weight of a DD motor in the rear, a custom wheel at the rear might be a way to get into a larger rear tire to soften the bumps. I have a custom wheel in the rear and run a Schwalbe Big Apple HS 338 Fatty 20x2.35 on the rear of the Terratrike.
It sounds like we are in a similar position. If it were not for the Bionx system on my Terratrike Cruiser, I would not ride consistently (or possibly at all) and I certainly would not be able to keep up with the friends I ride with. WITH the Bionx, I ride consistently and get both the exercise I badly need and 40 minutes a day of quiet alone time.
I believe that the current generation Bionx systems offer a cassette mount that accommodates cassettes up to 10 speed.
For example: http://www.nycewheels.com/bionxpl350-sl-electricbike-motorkit.html. This says it is a 350W kit, but this system will put out up to about 800 Watts riding uphill in max assist.
I have ridden a Bionx-assisted Terratrike Cruiser for a couple of years now and LOVE the trike. The torque sensitive assist (motor power depends on how hard you are pedaling) makes the bike fluid and natural under all circumstances. I have a throttle but rarely bother to touch it. I have an older version of the model shown in the link. Mine accommodates a freewheel up to 8 speeds and was fully compatible with my older Terratrike, just swapped over the freewheel onto the motor.
The riding experience is perfectly natural, you ride the bike the same way you always did, changing gears when you need to to accommodate your cadence. In the lower levels of assist (e.g. 50% assist) you are only marginally aware of the motor assisting at all and the motor is completely silent. At the higher levels of assist (300%), you feel super human tearing up hills and running 20mph in the flats. There is a tiny sound which I THINK is spoke noise but might be coming from the motor. The rider is the only person who can hear it anyway. Chain and gear noise is much louder. I am quiet enough to routinely sneak up on various wildlife. Most of my riding is on the flat (down in Tucson) or on steep rolling hills (at home). The hills are steep but relatively short 8-12% grade but only 100-200 yards long, I just DRIVE up them with high pedal force and max assist, this keeps the wheel RPM up and keeps the motor power high and efficient. This system is, bluntly, a JOY to ride and I can keep up with pretty much anybody (at least up to 20mph). My only real point of comparison is 2000+ miles on a Prodeco Phantom X2 which is a throttle based e-bike (no pedal sensor). The Prodeco is a cheap-ish 500W DD system made with decent quality Chinese parts and was (and still is) fun to ride, but the riding experience does not compare to the Bionx systems.
I have four complete Bionx systems with six batteries, all purchased at bargain basement prices from the original owners on Craigslist, two on bikes, and two as used "kits". I have moved them between bikes and put them on new bikes (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74729) with good success and little trouble. In two years of daily riding (10-11 miles) on two Bionx equipped bikes, I have not had any failures. With that said, my oldest system (circa 2008-2009) is gradually getting eccentric and does not always turn OFF when commanded so that one may be on its way to dying.
Before I am accused of being a shill for Bionx (again), let me note:
- The Bionx systems are well engineered and superbly integrated
The Bionx systems tend to run EXPENSIVE
The Bionx systems have good reliability, but replacement parts are EXPENSIVE
Installing a Bionx on a trike may require an extension for the motor <--> battery cable.
Bionx is a CLOSED system with the smarts widely distributed between console, motor, and battery. This means that if something breaks, you have only one choice for repair parts -- Bionx
The Bionx system is limited to 20mph but that can be removed privately or maybe you know a dealer well enough to convince them to do it.
Sadly the picture does not show the motor well, but you can see the battery mounting position. This is the standard downtube battery and mount. I am heavyset and my pant leg occasionally brushes the battery housing, but there is no contact with my leg.
Your post does not say where you live except in the USA. If you lived in Tucson I would send you to AJO Bikes to talk to them about electrifying your Catrike. Look for a local Bionx dealer. Many of them are also familiar with other electric assist systems as well. Unless you are itching to do the DIY thing or are a good bike mechanic, I would recommend professional installation which ought to run no more than $100 unless you have a custom wheel built. With the added weight of a DD motor in the rear, a custom wheel at the rear might be a way to get into a larger rear tire to soften the bumps. I have a custom wheel in the rear and run a Schwalbe Big Apple HS 338 Fatty 20x2.35 on the rear of the Terratrike.
He hasn't even bothered to visit the forums since then, and based on others like him probably never will come back to see people tried to help.ebent said:
Code:
Stephen2
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:33 am
Last visited: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:59 amVery common for people to come here, take the trouble to create an account, write up a post, and then never even visit again to see if they got any replies (or just read the replies without ever logging in, in which case you'd never know), and never bother to respond to anyone helping them. You can look at the memberlist and sort by number of posts and see how many do that (it'll take a while...there's even more that never post at all, or create accounts and never even log into them).
It's also common enough for members that *do* post more than once to post a problem, then not bother to reply to people helping them, then just keep making new threads about it instead, or to never reply about the first problem, then later make a new thread about some other question, and never reply there, either, etc.
Pretty frustrating for those of us trying to help people, and a deterrent to wanting to try very hard until sufficient replies have been posted by the original poster (OP) to ensure they're really listening.
(just in case anyone wonders why so often I and others reply with "did you search for any answers?" in one form or another, rather than with any detailed information...much of the time any reply at all is a complete waste of time.
Doesn't make for a good environment to promote helpfulness.
icerider
100 W
Triketech said:
I've ridden the Rillito a couple of times but I always started at the bottom near I-10 and rode up. I think we went all the way both times but I don't remember. Then the ride back is fun.
I've ridden the SantaCruz //I-10 bikepath from Thornydale to the south end and back lots of times (although not in the last 6 months). That one is REALLY flat. But my definition of flat is somewhat skewed by the motor.
We also ride Julian Wash from Rita Road to Drexel and back -- slightly uphill coming back.
bentstrider83
10 mW
icerider said:
I've been down in that area a few times in the past, several years.
Definitely some much more, breath-taking scenery than one would get out here on the High Plains of eastern NM and west TX.
As far as the motor kit I'm looking into, that Dillenger branded, Bafang 750 kit looks about as complete as one could get.
Now I just got to find the right tool to remove the crank arms and BB, or perhaps even look at getting an entirely, separate boom altogether for the motor itself.
Keep the normal one around for in case something ever goes wrong.
That's definitely one good thing about tadpole trikes, that removable boom.
schosser
1 mW
I don't know about Stephen2, but I usually don't log into this site unless I am actually posting a message. I do come to the site about once a week,as guest, for "continuing education".
On the electrification of trikes I have both experience and opnion.
I put a 250 watt 36 volt mac motor on my wifes catrike trail. Because she has cerebral palsy her unpowered real world average was 6mph. My unpowered real world average varies between 9 and 12 mph depending on the trike I ride. Where before I'd double back a lot , I now have a serious workout trying to stay near her!
I have also installed a bafang 250 BBS02 on a modified catrike trail and later on a first generation tt Rover 8 . My un-powered trail had a conversion kit which allowed a 26 inch rear wheel. I installed a sram 3/9 igh/deraileur 26 inch combo in 2014 (specifically for doing RAGBRAI http://ragbrai.com/about/ragbrai-history/).
I tried the bafang with that setup but only for a short time. I was uncomfortable with the stress I was putting on the boom and I really enjoy riding an un-powered catrike.
So I converted the catrike back to it stock (20") configuration and moved the bafang to a Terra Trike Rover8 frame. Several years ago I had extended the rover frame a bit to accommodate a 26 inch wheel so I put the whole SRAM/Bafang setup over there. This turned out to be a better then expected solution ( I will add that I had previously modified the Rover frame to make it much stiffer and eliminate the wobbly seat attachment and added avid bb7 brakes.) Since it doesn't have a rear derailuer hanger I just use the internal 3 speed gearing of the SRAM. No real issues except it's heavy and doesn't have the handling of the catrike . With the motor tuned off it is no fun to pedal. I could see getting , if you could find one cheap, an early generation TT Rover single speed (or even the 8 speed) and power it with a BBS02 250/500.
I have helped several other folks ( all,like me, over 60) with their E-bikes or trikes. I always recommend a rear geared motor for ease of installation and use. Having said that a Bafang mid setup is very quiet and works good on a strong frame. Honestly, I think with the use case for us older riders (low and slow) the 250 watt setup would be just fine on most trikes. I'd be interested in seeing a delta trike like SUN EZ-X or Atomic Zombie with a bafang setup.
As a bit of additional info, My wife and I have ridden several 40+ mile rides, she with pedelec power (legs and motor) , me on the stock catrike with no motor. We ride on fairly flat Rails to trails at a moving average of 9mph. So far her primitive battery meter has always shown about a 25% charge left in her 36 V 15AH battery pac.
Bill
On the electrification of trikes I have both experience and opnion.
I put a 250 watt 36 volt mac motor on my wifes catrike trail. Because she has cerebral palsy her unpowered real world average was 6mph. My unpowered real world average varies between 9 and 12 mph depending on the trike I ride. Where before I'd double back a lot , I now have a serious workout trying to stay near her!
I have also installed a bafang 250 BBS02 on a modified catrike trail and later on a first generation tt Rover 8 . My un-powered trail had a conversion kit which allowed a 26 inch rear wheel. I installed a sram 3/9 igh/deraileur 26 inch combo in 2014 (specifically for doing RAGBRAI http://ragbrai.com/about/ragbrai-history/).
I tried the bafang with that setup but only for a short time. I was uncomfortable with the stress I was putting on the boom and I really enjoy riding an un-powered catrike.
So I converted the catrike back to it stock (20") configuration and moved the bafang to a Terra Trike Rover8 frame. Several years ago I had extended the rover frame a bit to accommodate a 26 inch wheel so I put the whole SRAM/Bafang setup over there. This turned out to be a better then expected solution ( I will add that I had previously modified the Rover frame to make it much stiffer and eliminate the wobbly seat attachment and added avid bb7 brakes.) Since it doesn't have a rear derailuer hanger I just use the internal 3 speed gearing of the SRAM. No real issues except it's heavy and doesn't have the handling of the catrike . With the motor tuned off it is no fun to pedal. I could see getting , if you could find one cheap, an early generation TT Rover single speed (or even the 8 speed) and power it with a BBS02 250/500.
I have helped several other folks ( all,like me, over 60) with their E-bikes or trikes. I always recommend a rear geared motor for ease of installation and use. Having said that a Bafang mid setup is very quiet and works good on a strong frame. Honestly, I think with the use case for us older riders (low and slow) the 250 watt setup would be just fine on most trikes. I'd be interested in seeing a delta trike like SUN EZ-X or Atomic Zombie with a bafang setup.
As a bit of additional info, My wife and I have ridden several 40+ mile rides, she with pedelec power (legs and motor) , me on the stock catrike with no motor. We ride on fairly flat Rails to trails at a moving average of 9mph. So far her primitive battery meter has always shown about a 25% charge left in her 36 V 15AH battery pac.
Bill
