Ive had this problem recently with my lyen 12 fet sensored controller it turned out to be the 3 pin connector for the throttle. The black wire was not making contact properly and causing spikes of full throttle. I removed the pins from both sides of the connector and tested different combinations. It turns out if I connect pos and signal wires the motor spins at full speed, connect the neg and it stops and begins responding to throttle input. Check if your throttle connector is making good secure contact with all pins. I done away with it and soldered the wires. Its not worth the risk of un-commanded WOT......again!
runaway bike!
- Thread starter RVD
- Start date
Rassy
1 MW
Tony, thanks for the comment, it explains a problem I had, and is probably what caused my WOT which I said previously was a short in the wiring. Now I remember an incident that occurred at least twice. I normally would plug in the harness between my pusher trailer and bike before powering up, but a couple of times when I plugged in the trailer after powering up the controller there was a momentary throttle up as I plugged the throttle in. As soon as the plug was seated the power up was corrected. I had forgotten about that since I became careful not to power up the trailer before plugging in the throttle.
I've had so many different controllers and motors on pusher trailers for different bikes and trikes I don't remember which one had this problem, but my current controller is a Shenzen 6 fet from ECrazyMan, which is the one that went WOT on my current trike.
I've had so many different controllers and motors on pusher trailers for different bikes and trikes I don't remember which one had this problem, but my current controller is a Shenzen 6 fet from ECrazyMan, which is the one that went WOT on my current trike.
greenspark
100 W
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2011
- Messages
- 176
Someone in the bike biz (Lyen?) needs to offer a seat or pedal sensor that is connected to the kill loop. If your butt or your feet are not on the bike, it cuts power. This runaway problem is more common than folks may realise, and it is a serious design flaw that we get away with just because the litigators have not smelled money. I had it happen a couple days ago because my kit did not come with a power-on light, so by omission, I left the kill switch on. My wife was moving the bike, and of course put her hand on what is normally a hand grip. The bike jumped forward, and she let go, so it stopped. Had she held on, it would have been another story.
I'll buy two as soon as they are offered.
I'll buy two as soon as they are offered.
Ykick
1 GW
I don't use brake switches but my brakes will lock/stall the wheel and the controller over current protection shuts things down if the wheel can't turn. I also stopped using those little Anderson locks on my mains so that in the event of emergency I just yank the battery connection.
This thread did remind me about 2 years ago 'was trying to figure out my 1st hall throttle wiring and the bike shot across the room. LOL...
This thread did remind me about 2 years ago 'was trying to figure out my 1st hall throttle wiring and the bike shot across the room. LOL...
Rassy
1 MW
Yep, my brakes will stop WOT, even in low gear, and the controller did shut down.
I never get off the trike without first locking the front brakes and flipping the toggle on the small wire that fires up the controller.
About 4 years ago I parked on a sidewalk with the recumbent bike that was powered by a pusher trailer. At that time the controller switch was inside the trailer and I often didn't turn it off. We got our sandwiches and were sitting outside eating them when a toddler, whose dad was right there but talking to someone, grabbed the handlebar about an inch from the throttle and started pushing it back and forth. It really scared me. The bike was locked to a post, but it would have bucked hard. I rushed to the trailer and flipped the switch and then asked her to leave the bike alone. Since then my motto has been "always disable your throttle when your bike is unattended".
I never get off the trike without first locking the front brakes and flipping the toggle on the small wire that fires up the controller.
About 4 years ago I parked on a sidewalk with the recumbent bike that was powered by a pusher trailer. At that time the controller switch was inside the trailer and I often didn't turn it off. We got our sandwiches and were sitting outside eating them when a toddler, whose dad was right there but talking to someone, grabbed the handlebar about an inch from the throttle and started pushing it back and forth. It really scared me. The bike was locked to a post, but it would have bucked hard. I rushed to the trailer and flipped the switch and then asked her to leave the bike alone. Since then my motto has been "always disable your throttle when your bike is unattended".
I still have the large circuit breaker right between my knees that I installed when I had brushed motors on CrazyBike2 (since brushed controllers often fail shorted, which means full power on direct battery connection). Since that will cut battery power off from the controller and everything else, it is my main kill switch.
I also have an SB50 anderson just below the front right corner of the seat that I can yank out of the battery connector, should the breaker somehow fail. :lol:
But mostly, I just make sure that I am holding the ebrake lever when I'm not actually on the bike but am moving it with power still on, since that cuts out the controller.
I've always had the habit of holding the brake lever *almost* engaged when not on a bike but moving it, even when I did not have motors on there, simply because it can help me keep it from falling over if it begins rolling out of my control with heavy cargo on it.
Also have always had the habit of keeping brakes engaged when sitting at a light or stop sign, or parked somewhere, even on regular bikes (mostly because many intersections seem to have a slight rise into the intersection, and I don't like rolling backwards). That habit would keep the motor disengaged, as well, on bikes with motors and ebrake handles (which all of mine have for regen experiments anyway).
I also have an SB50 anderson just below the front right corner of the seat that I can yank out of the battery connector, should the breaker somehow fail. :lol:
But mostly, I just make sure that I am holding the ebrake lever when I'm not actually on the bike but am moving it with power still on, since that cuts out the controller.
I've always had the habit of holding the brake lever *almost* engaged when not on a bike but moving it, even when I did not have motors on there, simply because it can help me keep it from falling over if it begins rolling out of my control with heavy cargo on it.
Also have always had the habit of keeping brakes engaged when sitting at a light or stop sign, or parked somewhere, even on regular bikes (mostly because many intersections seem to have a slight rise into the intersection, and I don't like rolling backwards). That habit would keep the motor disengaged, as well, on bikes with motors and ebrake handles (which all of mine have for regen experiments anyway).
RVD
1 kW
Hey guys,
So is the conclusion on this basically just a freak accident kind of thing and lesson learned is to make sure to install a kill switch type of thing (andon cord for all of you MBA types) that you can pull in case on emergency?
I extended out my kill switch so that it's easier for me to pull but have been a bit spooked so i haven't been riding to work since this incident. I'm about ready to start up again this week but it is a bit freaky since the bike goes so darn fast when it breaks down like this. even with a kill switch, i will probably hit the car in front of me or worse, get thrown into an intersection.
i am also a bit more hesitant to build bikes for non-techie friends as a result.
RVD.
So is the conclusion on this basically just a freak accident kind of thing and lesson learned is to make sure to install a kill switch type of thing (andon cord for all of you MBA types) that you can pull in case on emergency?
I extended out my kill switch so that it's easier for me to pull but have been a bit spooked so i haven't been riding to work since this incident. I'm about ready to start up again this week but it is a bit freaky since the bike goes so darn fast when it breaks down like this. even with a kill switch, i will probably hit the car in front of me or worse, get thrown into an intersection.
i am also a bit more hesitant to build bikes for non-techie friends as a result.
RVD.
miro13car
100 kW
the best kill switch is brake lever with reed switch built in.
I am surprised that nobody much mention them here,any push type of switch takes more than 1second to push, to late ...asking for serious accident
Anyway Canadian regulation require all ebikes to have such switches, it is part of definition of ebike by Transport Canada and I cannot imagine to ride ebike without them
Is it legal to sell ebike without lever kill switch?
I am surprised that nobody much mention them here,any push type of switch takes more than 1second to push, to late ...asking for serious accident
Anyway Canadian regulation require all ebikes to have such switches, it is part of definition of ebike by Transport Canada and I cannot imagine to ride ebike without them
Is it legal to sell ebike without lever kill switch?
liveforphysics
100 TW
You don't even need to disconnect any high power cables to have a good disconnect.
Just interrupting the few mA power source to your hall sensors does the trick perfectly.
A sensor on the seat would not work, technical riding requires standing up on the pedals.
Just interrupting the few mA power source to your hall sensors does the trick perfectly.
A sensor on the seat would not work, technical riding requires standing up on the pedals.
Hugues
1 kW
I'm not entirely sure that e-brake is enough. I've got one and it's of course the fastest way to stop your motor when you're caught by surprise, because the first thing you will do is slam the brakes.
But on 2 occasions in 6 months, my controller froze, it did not respond to any input, throttle, e-brake, nothing. This happened after the voltage went below the low voltage limit set on the CA. The only thing to do to stop the motor was to switch off the controller . But it was a bit tricky to reach the switch.
So finally yesterday I installed a kill-switch at "thumb" distance from my right hand. I just extended the 2 wires of the controller switch .
Again , don't want to spread paranoia here , it happened to me twice, that' all, and the work was done in 1 hour and the switch cost me less than 5 bucks.
But on 2 occasions in 6 months, my controller froze, it did not respond to any input, throttle, e-brake, nothing. This happened after the voltage went below the low voltage limit set on the CA. The only thing to do to stop the motor was to switch off the controller . But it was a bit tricky to reach the switch.
So finally yesterday I installed a kill-switch at "thumb" distance from my right hand. I just extended the 2 wires of the controller switch .
Again , don't want to spread paranoia here , it happened to me twice, that' all, and the work was done in 1 hour and the switch cost me less than 5 bucks.
biohazardman
100 kW
It's a good thing you were able to keep it under control and had a way to cut the power. I had a runaway in the kitchen, a couple years back, was a few seconds of helter skelter before I was able to wrestle the bike to the floor and cut the power. I have a brake reed switch that cuts the throttle when I hit the rear brake lever as someone mentioned, a controller power switch that kills the controller power under the seat and main battery disconnect switch that kills all battery power. It's good to have all three easily accessible for those once in a lifetime moments that it can save your or someone else's skin.
Alan B
100 GW
A kill switch is a great thing to have, but the other important thing to do, in my opinion, is to get a reliable throttle. I have read about so many throttle failures that I did some research and the only throttle I could find that was NOT a problem is the Magura. It is a resistive type throttle and is well made. The failure modes of this type of throttle don't result in "full throttle" (with controllers that reject 5V), and the failure rate is much lower than other types. I could not find much in the way of complaints about the Magura.
The problem with the hall throttles is twofold. One is there are many failure modes that cause the throttle to put out a maximum throttle signal, and the other is that they are made of poor quality plastic materials, cement and construction that is prone to failure.
Better Luck going forward,
The problem with the hall throttles is twofold. One is there are many failure modes that cause the throttle to put out a maximum throttle signal, and the other is that they are made of poor quality plastic materials, cement and construction that is prone to failure.
Better Luck going forward,
According to the guys at Zero, the Magura throttle pots will eventually wear out with enough use. This generally results in no output, so tends to fail safe. I have a couple of them and always had good results. I don't think I ride enough to wear one out in 10 years. The pots are replaceable if they do eventually wear out.
Alan B
100 GW
fechter said:
Failing Safe is a good failure mode. Thanks for the data point. Is Zero using Magura throttles on their current production machines? That says a lot.
RVD
1 kW
I ran a quick test today. I hooked everything up again to the faulty throttle and sure enough...WOT! But I pressed on the regen brakes and the wheel stopped. So that's good news...at least the brakes will stop the bike. As soon as you release the brake though it's going WOT again.
As for my kill switch, here's a quick picture of the idea. For the U harness, on my full sized bike, I have that U harness on the top tube so it's in easy reach to just pull it. It is secured with a few pieces of duct tape but is very easy to just pull out to kill power to the controller.
In case of emergency, I reach under my saddle and just yank on that red U harness wire.
Here is how it works.
The thin red ignition wire needs to be hooked up to the red block thing on the left (attached to the controller via rubber bands). Rather than hooking it up directly, it is hooked up to a red anderson pointing up. The red anderson is hooked up to an upside down U wire that just goes up to the saddle and back down again. Then you can see on the left it is hooked up to the red block thing.
Yanking on the U wire will disconnect the thin red ignition wire from the controller stopping the controller.
I suppose if you don't like the thin red ignition wire, you can use the main red power lead if you want to. It doesn't really matter I don't think.
As for my kill switch, here's a quick picture of the idea. For the U harness, on my full sized bike, I have that U harness on the top tube so it's in easy reach to just pull it. It is secured with a few pieces of duct tape but is very easy to just pull out to kill power to the controller.
In case of emergency, I reach under my saddle and just yank on that red U harness wire.
Here is how it works.
The thin red ignition wire needs to be hooked up to the red block thing on the left (attached to the controller via rubber bands). Rather than hooking it up directly, it is hooked up to a red anderson pointing up. The red anderson is hooked up to an upside down U wire that just goes up to the saddle and back down again. Then you can see on the left it is hooked up to the red block thing.
Yanking on the U wire will disconnect the thin red ignition wire from the controller stopping the controller.
I suppose if you don't like the thin red ignition wire, you can use the main red power lead if you want to. It doesn't really matter I don't think.
Alan B
100 GW
Mechanical failures in a hall throttle can cause this full throttle problem. Probably need to try another throttle or disassemble this unit.
RVD
1 kW
I replaced the throttle with another one and it's fine now. I also bought a magura throttle that is on it's way...
No need for walk of shame if you have WOT problems, if you have an ebrake, if you can disable regen braking with a jumper wire. Just hold the brake, turn the system on, then let go of the brake when you want to go, as soon as you're up to speed then lightly pull the brake to engage only the ebrake and not the physical brake, so you're doing a pulse-and-glide to get home. 
Alan B
100 GW
The keyswitch I bought has a couple of poles. My plan is to ground the throttle in the first two positions, off and aux; then only in position 3 "run" does the throttle get released. Only turn on the keyswitch when sitting on the bike, and if it takes off in position 3 the fingers are on the key so turning back off is quick.
The aux position will power the controller and Cycle Analyst, this is for getting to display information without enabling the throttle. This is important when displaying the bike, lots of folks will blip the throttle, it needs to be disabled, but folks want to see the display. Also good for when you want to fiddle with the CA but not ride, keeps the throttle off.
The aux position will power the controller and Cycle Analyst, this is for getting to display information without enabling the throttle. This is important when displaying the bike, lots of folks will blip the throttle, it needs to be disabled, but folks want to see the display. Also good for when you want to fiddle with the CA but not ride, keeps the throttle off.
