Sad day for my Amped Bike Kit : (

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hello everyone!

I have been out of the scene for a while, but I still maintain my father's E-Bike, and today it appears to have finally succumbed to his full throttle no pedal start style of "Bat out of Hell" type riding at least as much as you can with 36V of Li-Po! (I kid you not, he's nearly 70 and AVERAGES over 20 MPH on a 4 mile ride he does every morning, and tops out at about 26 MPH!!)


I used this motor always pedal start, never pushing it hard for about a year and then switched with my father for his 9 x 7 DD Amped Motor, and that motor is still happily being abused by a new owner and working well today, however, the rear geared motor is only a 350W motor, what do you expect right?

Well, here are the symptoms:

Electrical "grinding" noise at the motor for about 5 feet when he went to "launch" (he always has the pedal gearing in one of the highest gears) and heard the sound, and from there on, there has been no obvious problem, but no sound from the motor, so I suspect motor failure rather than the internal gears.

I have checked all the plugs, cleaned with WD-40, dried them with compressed air, and still nothing.

Are there any simple continuity tests or other simple tests barring having a second Amped Bikes controller to plug in to confirm the dead motor? Not really wanting to buy fancy diagnostic equipment, just hoping there might be a couple simple tests to confirm the soundness of the motor's windings?

Thanks!

 

[arkmundi]

Have you taken it apart yet?

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Not yet, hoping I can confirm something before going that far, I have a speed control in the garage, but I want to do some bench tests and see if there are any obvious problems before going that far (I highly suspect dad just pushed it too hard for one too many years).

 

[arkmundi]

Just saying that these ebike motors are eminently repairable. May be a bit intimidating at first if you haven't done or seen it done. But for a motor that's lasted that long, seems like it was well built to begin with. I ascribe to the 3 R's - reduce, reuse, recycle. Of all the components in an ebike, the motors are worth salvaging. Until you open it up, you won't know what you're dealing with.

 

[John in CR]

We haven't seen you around in a while. Glad to see you back.

The motor is telling you Dad's ready for a monster ebike.

It doesn't sound like the motor, since a motor either works or it doesn't. That said, the motor does have bearings which are pretty small on geared hubbies. They support the motor bell housing on the axle. Checking them requires taking it completely apart, so check gears and bearings on the outer shell first.

John

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Just saying that these ebike motors are eminently repairable. May be a bit intimidating at first if you haven't done or seen it done. But for a motor that's lasted that long, seems like it was well built to begin with. I ascribe to the 3 R's - reduce, reuse, recycle. Of all the components in an ebike, the motors are worth salvaging. Until you open it up, you won't know what you're dealing with.

Absolutely agree, even if I find a mess that would require rewinding of the motor, at the very least I would recycle it and get the money for the metal, but I too like to follow the 3 r's (in my dad's world however, the three r's are more like rotten, refuse & re-store as in we have a lot of junk that he can't part with, even though it is obviously literally rotting, rusting or of no value other than to recycle or turn into compost, we have an entire pile of wood in a corner of the yard that is left in the weather to rot because it's "too useful to burn" for firewood, but if you suggest fixing the tree house with it you get your hands bit off! lol :lol: )

I use lots of old stuff that most would consider junk and make use of it, my father inherited the depression era mindset of his father, and stores things that "might be useful for something someday" but it's really just hoarding, we are going to need a huge dump box to haul it all off once that day comes sadly.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

We haven't seen you around in a while. Glad to see you back.

The motor is telling you Dad's ready for a monster ebike.

It doesn't sound like the motor, since a motor either works or it doesn't. That said, the motor does have bearings which are pretty small on geared hubbies. They support the motor bell housing on the axle. Checking them requires taking it completely apart, so check gears and bearings on the outer shell first.

John

Thanks John! Any hints on where I might find one of these Amped geared motors taken apart? I can't imagine the magnets are half as difficult to over-come when opening it as say a X-lyte motor, but I understand fingers being pinched especially putting them back together isn't uncommon?

And sadly the last thing dad needs is a faster motor (thankfully he realises this much himself) he still regularly wanders into the opposing lane of traffic when making a left since his vision is so poor (he often isn't even aware how bad his judgement of distance is) and his judgement of what is a bad move in traffic is unfortunately just as bad, and his solution is to ride like he owns the road as early as he can see daylight and often cuts off the average car driver that is just trying

to go to work, school buses just pull off to the side of the road, I can't ride with him because he is so dangerous I really don't want to witness his next nasty accident (he has had several minor ones, and has been in the hospital once because of this on the last nasty one) but I know what you mean John, I would like to get something of a medium to small rear DD motor to stand-in for what he has now just for the longevity of a good DD VS the extra maintenance of a geared putting up with this severe of abuse lol! :lol:

 

[dogman dan]

I'd look at the hall sensors first, and of course the wires and plug to the halls even before that.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I'd look at the hall sensors first, and of course the wires and plug to the halls even before that.

Thanks D-man, how would you recommend I do this, and is there a way to just test the leads going into the case? I'm guessing that continuity between some things (a short) would be bad?

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I have the wheel off, cleaned and ready to test, and I'm guessing the 3 depressions on the right side are drill-out plugs that hide bolt heads?

 

[motomech]

I have the wheel off, cleaned and ready to test, and I'm guessing the 3 depressions on the right side are drill-out plugs that hide bolt heads?

Oh no.....!!!!
Those depressions are for grabing the cover to spin it off.
You need to fabricate a spanner wrench with three nubs that corraspond to the holes. Make it long, because if it's a rear wheel motor, it's going to on there real tight[free wheel turns into tighten cover}.
Another method for cover removal is to fab a flat plank or plate out of steel/wood that can be secured to a bench/floor and build up the nubs with though pegs. Fit the wheel asm. on this and turn wheel asm to loosen cover.
As stated, it is likely very tight, so repeated heating/cooling and lubing may be required.

Testing Hall sensors;
"to test the hall sensor wires. If the plug for the 5 wires is similar to mine, which it likely is since we both have ampedbikes motors, it should be a white plug. If your multimeter had good thin tips, you should be able to slide them into the backend of the plugs while it is all assembled. Set your multimeter so it's set to measure voltage, somewhere in the 5 volt range. Stick the red one alongside the red wire, and the black one alongside the black wire. You should measure 5 volts. If not, there is something wrong. After that, stick the red probe into the green wire, black to black, and turn the wheel very slowly. About every inch or so of wheel movement the voltage should toggle between 5v and 0v. If it doesn't toggle, there is something wrong. Then put the red to blue, black to black, and move the wheel slowly to see if it toggles. Repeat for yellow.

You should always have a constant 5v coming from the controller on the red wire. You should have the Green, Yellow, and Blue wires alternate between 5v and 0v. Always sink the black probe to black when testing the halls."

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I have the wheel off, cleaned and ready to test, and I'm guessing the 3 depressions on the right side are drill-out plugs that hide bolt heads?

Oh no.....!!!!
Those depressions are for grabing the cover to spin it off.
You need to fabricate a spanner wrench with three nubs that corraspond to the holes. Make it long, because if it's a rear wheel motor, it's going to on there real tight[free wheel turns into tighten cover}.
Another method for cover removal is to fab a flat plank or plate out of steel/wood that can be secured to a bench/floor and build up the nubs with though pegs. Fit the wheel asm. on this and turn wheel asm to loosen cover.
As stated, it is likely very tight, so repeated heating/cooling and lubing may be required.

Testing Hall sensors;
"to test the hall sensor wires. If the plug for the 5 wires is similar to mine, which it likely is since we both have ampedbikes motors, it should be a white plug. If your multimeter had good thin tips, you should be able to slide them into the backend of the plugs while it is all assembled. Set your multimeter so it's set to measure voltage, somewhere in the 5 volt range. Stick the red one alongside the red wire, and the black one alongside the black wire. You should measure 5 volts. If not, there is something wrong. After that, stick the red probe into the green wire, black to black, and turn the wheel very slowly. About every inch or so of wheel movement the voltage should toggle between 5v and 0v. If it doesn't toggle, there is something wrong. Then put the red to blue, black to black, and move the wheel slowly to see if it toggles. Repeat for yellow.

You should always have a constant 5v coming from the controller on the red wire. You should have the Green, Yellow, and Blue wires alternate between 5v and 0v. Always sink the black probe to black when testing the halls."

Hmmm I might have a spanner wrench that I can use to hook one of the holes with, but I really like the idea of a stationary set-up built into my bench and then using the whole wheel as a lever to loosen it, I will put some lag bolts into the bench and then take off the tops as "pins".

I tried spinning the wheel with the meter attached but I got nothing at all, hopefully it's just rusty in there but I fear it's more like toasted halls ... never thought I would be fixing something like this hehe good experience for me.

 

[Jason27]

My next kit will be from amped bikes. I like their parts and service.

 

[dnmun]

"I tried spinning the wheel with the meter attached but I got nothing at all, hopefully it's just rusty in there but I fear it's more like toasted halls ... never thought I would be fixing something like this hehe good experience for me."

if this is a geared motor as i think it is, then you have to slowly rotate the wheel, backwards! slowly, backwards!!! if you do not see voltage then you are doing something wrong.

the controller has to be powered up. you won't need throttle or phase wires, just the hall sensor plug has to be connected, and the controller has to be powered up!

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I guess I need to make a spanner wrench, tried to put some lag bolts into some plywood, and it's just not solid enough doh! This cover have right hand threads?

 

[dnmun]

you should test the hall sensors before you open the motor.

 

[neptronix]

I'll put money on rust, considering where you live.

 

[dnmun]

i think it would depend on how much it was out in the weather. stuff stays dry if you keep it indoors during the rain.

but i bet it is some kinda glue on the joint or the threads. how do you know which direction to turn? where is the threaded side? on the freewheel side?

you might call around to transmission rebuild shops and machine shops and ask them if they have a big 3 pin spanner that is adjustable. or you could use a one or two pin spanner if it rested on part of the motor as you torqued it. or you can use a punch and hammer as you run outa options.

test the hall sensors first. if they are really dead and that is the noise, from grumbling of the phase current missing, and if the motor won't come apart then you could go to a sensorless controller without having to open it.

if you have the noise during rotation backwards then the gears or their bearings could be bad so then you would wanna open the motor if you could get the parts to repair it.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I'll put money on rust, considering where you live.

Yeah, and considering how it's been used the last 2 years, rain or shine, it's a very real possibility, but what I forgot to mention there is some minor damage on one of the phase wires insulation (just one, and there is no evidence of it being a problem) and I have been wanting to get inside that area and do a proper repair (been like this for better part of a year with no problems) and just beef up that insulation right where it comes out of the axle, I'm planning on using a track cog that is lock-tighted to the FW threads to unscrew it.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

i think it would depend on how much it was out in the weather. stuff stays dry if you keep it indoors during the rain.

but i bet it is some kinda glue on the joint or the threads. how do you know which direction to turn? where is the threaded side? on the freewheel side?

you might call around to transmission rebuild shops and machine shops and ask them if they have a big 3 pin spanner that is adjustable. or you could use a one or two pin spanner if it rested on part of the motor as you torqued it. or you can use a punch and hammer as you run outa options.

test the hall sensors first. if they are really dead and that is the noise, from grumbling of the phase current missing, and if the motor won't come apart then you could go to a sensorless controller without having to open it.

if you have the noise during rotation backwards then the gears or their bearings could be bad so then you would wanna open the motor if you could get the parts to repair it.

Hmmm good thoughts there, I will see if Autozone has something like the spanner wrench you are describing, they are really good about loaning tools out, and the side that needs to come off is on the FW side, so it might be right hand thread or it could be unscrewed by the action of pedaling, and I am going to next try using my chain whip on a track cog (single speed cog with no FW) with some very powerful industrial grade lock tight (same that I used to keep a track from unscrewing on a mid drive that was being subjected to forward and backward forces and worked very well) that I can release with a little heat after I am done.

I have a few spanner wrenches around, and I am sure I could use a hammer and punch/chisel but the pin holes are very shallow, and I fear it would be really easy to strip them out.

 

[neptronix]

to open up the hub motor, a gear puller is often used. That's the easiest way to get the job done.

http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pr...le&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=analytics

I use a disc brake rotor bolted up to the freewheel side to provide a surface for the gear puller to pull on, since the threads are very weak in comparison.

Then if i need to get the stator out, i will just slam the axle on the other side on the ground until it pops out, lol.

Has worked for a few DD motors so far - this is the tried and true method of most.

 

[motomech]

Cell_man took a MXUS geared apart when he was still going by Lynchy.
It was a long sales thread, can't remember the title, but a search of Items For Sale -New should find it.
No gear pullers to open the cover.

 

[neptronix]

This is not a MXUS geared motor we're talking about, is it? i thought we were talking about the MXUS/9C style DD motor.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

This is not a MXUS geared motor we're talking about, is it? i thought we were talking about the MXUS/9C style DD motor.

No, this is an Amped Bikes rear Geared motor, (pretty sure the MXUS is a copy of the amped or other similarly sized geared hub motor) I am sure there are threads holding it together, thus the need for a spanner wrech to unscrew it, but I think the chain whip on the track cog will give me just as much if not more ability to unscrew it from the RH freewheel side.

it's the same motor I bought 2 years ago in this thread:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15414&p=228809&hilit=+amped+rear+geared#p228809

(the 3 pin holes are behind the FW, and should be a RH thread so that it wouldn't loosen under pedaling forces)

 

[motomech]

Amped geared, Mini-Might, Ebike geared and MXUS geared, cloned or not, they are the same motor.
Regular threads, like I said, it's tight because of the pedaling force is into it.
A solid spanner with two properly spaced lugs should do it.
A machine shop could make a flat enclosed, three lug spanner two feet long that would open it.
Unforunately, there are no specific parts for it, so there may be no way to effect repairs.
Cell_man no longer sells the MXUS geared, which is a shame because IMO, it's the best mini-motor, by far.