Samsung INR18650-20R .. yes these cells can punch, new 24R

I have to say that I am impressed by the 20R cell. There are other newer cells that appear to have a better C-rate, but they are much more expensive, and the 20R C-rate is very good, and certainly "good enough" for me.

migueralliart, how many cells can they ship per box? getting a full order in two or three boxes is OK, I was just wondering.

edit: link to my triangle pack build
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48342&p=712477#p712477

Migueralliarts pack-build;
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=50538
 
My first pack was a total of 60 cells 15S4P and they shipped it in 4P bricks (inline). Total of 3 small boxes. Shipped for free.

The second pack was a total of 48 cells 12S4P and was shipped in 4P bricks (2x2). Total of 2 small boxes. Shipped for free.

The third pack is a bit more complex and bigger because it is using the cell dividers for more cooling. I split the pack in three sections;
6S6P , 5S6P and 3S6P

They were shipped in 3 separate boxes via fedex with a tracking number for 60$ (~3 day shipping).
They put the cell dividers and gaskets and did all the spot welding. I have NEVER seen a vendor do this so efficiently. I sent them the design around midnight and the next morning they had all the packs done!

If you buy enough cells for a pack you can negotiate the price down to like 5.8$ per cell. Just add them to google talk and ask them a couple of questions and they are good with customers that buy built packs. Mention your intention to build packs for ebikes and that you come from ES and it also helps. That seller has informed me a lot of other people purchased a large a mount of 18650 cells from them and they were from ES. Some of them I imagine are lurkers and don't really post here a lot.

One thing is that they are not harassing you to get your purchase. I've sent them designed pack layouts for quotes and they quote with no compromise.
 
I just send email to supowerbattery111 asking for a quote for 10P 20S battery for my bike, build using these cells: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HID-Battery...US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item4ac1deaf5c

I have Cromotor in 21.5" wheel with Lyen 18 FET controller, 65 A max.

supowerbattery111 states what its capable of 20 Amp discharge, but obviously it's not true.
Do you think I'll be able to draw 60 Amp (3C) during acceleration and then 20 Amp (1C) during cruising? Without ruining this battery after 100 cycles?
 
I've actually seen tests going up to more than 20amps. They can certainly put out 3c-5c constantly. Something only konions could do in this format.

That is a huge pack you are inquiring about. I don't think the seller will be able to ship you that pack assembled. You might have to order 5S sections and finish it off yourself.

Also take a look at the Panasonic cells specially the 2.9ah one.
 
migueralliart said:
So far I've been using this pack 3-4 times a week with a lyen controller set at 25 amps and a 700c MXUS geared motor. Great top speed and great economy at such speed. Battery pack after a 7 mile ride is not even warm to the touch. I'm really impressed with these cells!

Ordered another set to make a small 12S pack for short commutes to the grocery store and etc. Will update when I get to do that.

Next thing will be to try out the panasonic 2.9Ah.
Click to expand...
Which cells were you talking about migueralliart?

Is this a good price for Panasonic 18650 LiNiCoMnO2? I was told they can do 1000+ recharges. (36V 14.5AH 2.5KG USD 335.00 + about $150 to ship, using panasonic cell 3.6v 2900mah (single cell), or is there a better option? Migueralliart, where did you get your MXUS geared hub & LYEN controller? Still haven't picked out my Bike kit yet, still deciding btw MXUS geared, Qute 100 & Falco 250w. Need to electrify a kick scooter, where I can't pedal. Was wondering if kicking is an option or if it will damage the motor. thnx.
 
galvatron1 said:
Which cells were you talking about migueralliart?

Is this a good price for Panasonic 18650 LiNiCoMnO2? I was told they can do 1000+ recharges. (36V 14.5AH 2.5KG USD 335.00 + about $150 to ship, using panasonic cell 3.6v 2900mah (single cell), or is there a better option? Migueralliart, where did you get your MXUS geared hub & LYEN controller? Still haven't picked out my Bike kit yet, still deciding btw MXUS geared, Qute 100 & Falco 250w. Need to electrify a kick scooter, where I can't pedal. Was wondering if kicking is an option or if it will damage the motor. thnx.
Click to expand...

I was talking about the panasonic ncr18650pd. This is an NCA chemistry I believe and they should last past 1000 cycles. Unfortunately they are not cheap. Seller April on these forums has them for 6-7$ a piece. But they might be out of stock now. If you go that way be sure to get a lot of capacity >15Ah.

I'm not sure if you want to go with a BMS or not. Taking into consideration lipo for you is another option. Also that same username has now the SONY 26650 VT cells which are 2.6Ah and they can discharge 50 amps per cell and they sell them for 3.5$ a piece. If you want just order a 10S4P and you'll have yourself a powerful pack. Get 2 5S balance harness and solder to the pack, heatshrink it and balance it yourself.

MXUS geared is no longer available. I don't know how your commute or riding style is but here's a basic recommendation;

If your commute is FLAT with almost no hills;

Cheapest WAY - A yescomusa kit. Search the forums for yescomusa. Only drawback I see if that adding a disc adapter is a bit difficult. If you don't use disc brakes in the rear wheel or care then this is a safe bet.

If your commute has moderate to heavy hills;

Ebikes.ca has a sale on 9C motors. Get the slowest wind you could (2808) and then a lyen controller. Then you'll be set.
 
I'm not sure if you want to go with a BMS or not. Taking into consideration lipo for you is another option. Also that same username has now the SONY 26650 VT cells which are 2.6Ah and they can discharge 50 amps per cell and they sell them for 3.5$ a piece. If you want just order a 10S4P and you'll have yourself a powerful pack. Get 2 5S balance harness and solder to the pack, heatshrink it and balance it yourself.
Click to expand...

I just looked up those Sony 26650 VT and Supower111 and they are 12 bucks apiece. How can I get them for 3.50?
otherDoc
 
galvatron1 said:
migueralliart said:
galvatron1 said:
I can't battery build. I need it pre-built. What are my options?
Click to expand...

What are your needs?

Range? 30-35 miles
COmmute type? city, sometimes steep hills & bridges.
Bike ? Scooter
Speed? 20mph
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
For 20" front disc brake, approx. 104mm space dropout. Must be lightest available, since I carry it up 3 flights of stairs & the scooter weighs 35 lbs.

Would also like it to be:

-capable of riding in rain.
-capable of 100% assist at all times
-climb steep hills, without burning or catching fire
-can spin free with no resistance when the motor is off
-capable of regenerative braking(optional)
 
migueralliart said:
I think that Sony cell is neat BUT they are expensive compared to the 20r. Also I can't find a discharge graph for it but supposedly it can do 50 amps discharge. On their last shipment they included one of the sony cells for me to test. We'll see how they perform but the price is a bit steep.
Click to expand...

Has anyone had a chance to test these Sony cells?

What is the best price for the 20r?

Thanks.
 
Hi everyone.

iv been enjoying reading this thread.
after being moderately impressed with 48v headway moderateness,
i decicided its time for something a bit more...zippy :) like 75-80v,20ah for a cromotor 16" moped wheel project.

iv been emailing various chinese suppliers regarding these samsung and panasonic cells. victopower, supowerbattery etc. at best they seem to go for about $4 a cell if ya buy bulk.

my concern is weather or not they are counterfeit or bgrade cells, as the price varies drastically depending on the seller eg. $60 for 4!on some ebay sites.

sooo.. can anyone recommend a tried and true legit supplier that tabwelds "real" cells and doesnt ask you to cut your arm off and give it to them as payment?
 
ridethelightning said:
sooo.. can anyone recommend a tried and true legit supplier that tabwelds "real" cells and doesnt ask you to cut your arm off and give it to them as payment?
Click to expand...

As indicated in the thread, supowerbattery does an excellent job tab welding and a number of people have successfully bought from them and are very satisfied. A number of people have bought from Victpower buying other cells types and had QC issues, delays, refund/return issues, etc. including myself. I do NOT recommend buying from VP.

As far as battery quality goes, you either buy samples to test yourself, or figure out how to read date/grade codes (it's not usually provided how to do this ever), or buy from a source that sells a large volume of the cells.

Until we learn otherwise, I think your best bet now is supowerbattery. Please report back here to this thread your findings for feedback purposes, so others can learn from your buying experience too.
 
thanks . that was exactly what i wanted to know :D

iv also been talking to GEB -General Electric Battery Co. in shenzen.....very, very, polite. they say they think samsung 18650 20R cells have now stopped production(?)
anyway,
anyone know of them/dealt with them?
 
I seriously doubt they stopped production. Other turn key ebikes are using this Samsung battery and a bunch of newer gen cordless tools.

Also I'm 99.99999% sure these are by NO means b grade cells. I've put my pack thru hell literally and I don't see any degradation in capacity. Also all the cells remain in balance after weeks in storage.

I asked Lilian at supower and they assured me these are brand new cells not b grade or damaged. After building several packs I can surely tell I received new cells.
 
looks like they are the goods then.
service sounds great too.
btw-
how many 20R cells in paralelle in a 20s pack would comfortably provide 80Apeak?
 
sory, just tell me if im on the right track here,- 2ah cell 5c =10a. so eg. 8p = 80a :?:

that may be in shenzen ebay spec land :roll: from your experiences, what should i expect in actual ebike reality land if i want to be nice to my little batteries :?: :D
 
If you're being conservative 5C is a good estimate. And you're right you're gonna need 8p so that you could be in the 5C zone at max 80amp current.

A 20S8p will be MASSIVE. BUT the good thing is that you can put 2 - 10S balance harness and balance it with dual ichargers. And you'd have 1.15KWh of battery pack!

This pack will probably cost you around 1000$ but it will be compact and will have WAY less clutter than making it out of LIPO bricks.

Right now I put together a 14S6P pack for my trike on one side BUT I'm gonna make the other side the same so my trike will have a 14S12P pack :D Which at ~26mph will give me around 60 mile range.

Gotta love this EV grin.
 
migueralliart said:
A 20S8p will be MASSIVE. BUT the good thing is that you can put 2 - 10S balance harness and balance it with dual ichargers. And you'd have 1.15KWh of battery pack!

This pack will probably cost you around 1000$ but it will be compact and will have WAY less clutter than making it out of LIPO bricks.
Click to expand...

IDK about massive and expensive :) My 2.6 KWh pack is 400x150x100 and weight is 10 kg. Cost of 200 batteries is $800 delivered to Canada.

http://extronebike.ca/2013/08/18/lg-battery-pack/
 
800 doesnt sound bad for that amount of stored energy(2.6KWH!!!)
what type of cells were they, where from if you dont mind me asking LSBW?
though id be pushing it to get postage like that to Aus. were on the arse-end of the world here :D
 
after translating to Km in my head(dont talk about miles much down here) thats quite fast and a LONG way migueralliart.
yeah 8p20 s is massive but i was even thinking of 10p24s. iv got a spare 80A 16s cellman bms. i was thinking of making a 16spack that could be "extended" depending on my mood with a booster pack. however i suspect ill need a 24s bms aswell for this stunt but may be able to make compatable balence wire plugs to switch bmss. any thoughts?

i am still looking at turnigy nano 8000mah out the corner of my eye,but if these samsung or panasonic cells do a similar job for similar cash, last longer(?)and dont blow up(!) then they are the clear winner for my applications.
 
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