Scott Aspect 45 Build Thread

[MurderousFrog]

Rainy sunday mood... perfect day to start my first build thread!



First some background info:
I became inspired by a friend's 500W e-bike build, but wanted something more powerful. When I found ES about half a year ago, I spent whole nights reading build threads where I better should have slept... :lol:
This thread will serve as the documentation of my build, both for myself and the ES community.
Information, pictures and videos will be added as progress is made.

Experience with bicycles: I rode one once.
Jokes aside, I cleaned and tuned the drivetrain on my mountainbike, changed brake pads, still not very much experience
Electrical experience: higher technical and electronic education, a few projects at home

Because over here in europe there are no fancy Giant DH Comps and i could not find any affordable, e-bike-suitable, full-suspension frames, I bought a friend's used hardtail MTB for 200€. The frame seems quite sturdy.

Scott Aspect 45 Hardtail

• - Shimano Deore rear derailleur
  - Shimano BR-M485 disc brakes
  - SA Suntour XCR front suspension

Flat on the front, dried out rubber tires...
Front brakes once ran too hot, now they don't brake well and make kinda weird noises
Apart from that in perfect condition. Probably okay for my first build.

Issues with this frame:
Crappy dropouts (?), hard to mount torque arms
Not so good front suspension
Hardtail

Might make a custom carbon fiber frame sometime...



Goal:

3-5 KW of DD rear hub power
Budget of 1500-2000 €
30-40 Km range with pedaling

I would like to use this bike for commuting when I start work in October (15 KM one way, with opportunity to charge at work) as well as fun riding in the woods and around the hills (steep hills...)




Components that will be used:

Motor: Crystalyte HT3525 - received
Controller: Adaptto Mini-E - received
Batteries: 20s2p 10Ah from Turnigy 4s 5Ah 20C/40C HK Lipos - received
Throttle: Domino Trials Throttle, hall conversion box from gwhy! - will order when gwhy! has got them
Charging: Adaptto's 35 A charging coil - received
Charger: 1.8 KW Eaton charger - received (Thanks Allex!)
Phase Wires: 4mm² - got 'em at the store

Torque Arms: 2 x Torque Arm v4 from ebikes.ca - received (Shout out to ebikes.ca - package was sent out on 27.05.2015 and received on 29.05.2015 from Vancouver, Canada to Austria, fastest shipping I have ever seen)
New Tires: 2 x Maxxis Ignitor 26" x 2.1 - received
New Tubes: 2 x Continental MTB 26" - received
New Brake Pads: Kool Stop ceramics - received
New disk brake rotor: cheapest 160mm I could find - received
New Freewheel: 7 Spd Shimano - received

Safety gear: 661 comp white/black full face DH helmet - received

Fiberglass + Epoxy for a frame battery box - received
Carbon fiber plate - received

Tools:
will be borrowed from friends





Pictures of already received components:

1.8 KW Eaton Power Supply (Thanks Allex!)

Torque Arms from ebikes.ca

Crystalyte HT3525 with weird new connectors:

At first I was puzzled as there only seem to be 3 phase wire pins... but after a closer look 6 additional pins can be seen inside the connector!
After snipping off the plug, I found that this motor is indeed sensored, as it does have the hall sensor cables.
Because the motor axle already bit into the wires, they will be upgraded to 4mm² phase wires, covers will be drilled for cooling, although I haven't found a dick-shaped drill bit yet.
I'm considering oil cooling too, but I am afraid it will get too messy.



SpeakOn connector for charging (Idea from Allex' Stealth Bomber Thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62650)

First try at making a positive mold for the battery box (although i messed something up when measuring the front tip thickness):

It will be LxWxH: 435 mm x 100 mm x 240 mm

I have had a few ideas for the box, but mounting the controller inside with air channels for cooling doesn't seem to be the best option, so only the batteries & the BMS will be placed inside.
The Mini-E will probably mounted on top of the top tube, in front of the seat post.
One side of the battery box can be opened, which will be covered by a carbon fiber plate + rubber sealings so no moisture can get inside. I will deal with the sealing of the openings for the cables later.
On top of the box there will be a keyswitch installed, and on the side there will be a SpeakOn charging plug, covered with a rubber cover.
It should be enough for 700-900 Wh of energy storage, as far as my sketches showed.

I am worried about the torque arms holding up if I power my HT3525 with 3+KW... The frame does have really thin aluminium dropouts, so I have yet to find a better solution. Sadly I am not very good with 3D modeling in Solidworks, or else I would have had custom torque arms made at the local workshop...
What I am still unsure of is what connectors to use for battery, motor etc.. Opinions on ES differ on this topic. I am looking for something reasonably waterproof, easy to hide in line with the cables, with good contacts. So no bulky square connectors...




Suggestions, ideas and tips are greatly appreciated!

Please excuse my english as it is not my native language.

 

[MurderousFrog]

RESERVED

 

[soaresdacosta]

Hi MurderousFrog,

Nice bike. A bike like this, from "JoeFR" was my main inspiration, and a very big help. Mine is very similar, but another brand. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23290
Keep going, and don't forget to post some pictures of the build.

Luís Costa.

 

[MurderousFrog]

Hi Luís Costa!

Nice bike. A bike like this, from "JoeFR" was my main inspiration, and a very big help. Mine is very similar, but another brand. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23290
Keep going, and don't forget to post some pictures of the build.
Luís Costa.

Thank you very much for the tip!
Your bike looks absolutely beautiful, i will be happy if mine looks only half as good as yours!
I especially like the clean wiring and the carbon-coated everything, your bike is a huge inspiration for me.

I will update the thread as I progress with my build.

 

[beast775]

Great selection for a first build MF, Eaton power supply 8) .....I was just looking for the axle length for the HT3525 and cant seem to find it? maybe you can bolt the main part of the torque arm outside of the frame,instead of going inside the indentation on the swingarm dropout? good luck and will be keeping an eye on youre build .Mark.

 

[MurderousFrog]

So today the fiberglass stuff came in the mail, but after researching the recommended safety regulations for handling epoxy + fiberglas i got a bit scared
Real nasty stuff.
After I bought some safety gear I will proceed with building the box.

Great selection for a first build MF, Eaton power supply 8) .....I was just looking for the axle length for the HT3525 and cant seem to find it? maybe you can bolt the main part of the torque arm outside of the frame,instead of going inside the indentation on the swingarm dropout? good luck and will be keeping an eye on youre build .Mark.

Hey Mark, that is excatly what I will be trying to accomplish with grin's torque arms. Pictures will follow.

 

[r3volved]

It's not too bad to work with. I've only done a few fiberglass projects, but if I remember correctly I only used rubber gloves to keep the resin off my skin and an appropriate respirator for the fiberglass dust. Work in a well ventilated area - it's strong.

You'll be itchy as sin afterwards...long sleeves / short sleeves / bunny suit...nothing really keeps the itch out. Cool shower helps after.

 

[soaresdacosta]

Hi MurderousFrog,

"... Your bike looks absolutely beautiful, i will be happy if mine looks only half as good as yours! ..." Thanks for the compliments. You just need to spend time on the details, and the result will be good as mine. For what I see so far, its going to be good.
The wiring and the "carbon", are very easy to do...just time consuming.

Take care.
Luís.

 

[MurderousFrog]

So today finally the Adaptto Mini-E arrived!
It really is fascinatingly small. It's hard to imagine this small black box is going to push out 3 kW and more! :lol:
Unfortunately, as my finals are coming up, I'll have to devote my time to studying.
I might post a few updates when new stuff arrives in the mail, but until I am finished at the end of June, there will be no time to spend on building my ebike

Snapped a few pictures of opening the adaptto box.
Cat approved.

 

[MurderousFrog]

Because I'm done with my finals now, there's finally time to work on my bike!
While I was studying the last parts arrived.

The first thing I did was upgrade the phase wires in the HT3525 to 4mm² silicon wires. I did have quite some trouble fitting those fat bastards into the stock axle groove, so I had to improvise a bit. I used a dremel to grind down the sharp edges on the axle and made the groove a bit bigger. Then I cut the silicon isolation off the wires for the length of the axle groove, removed about 6 strands from each wire and heatshrinked them. I was then able to fit them into the axle shaft with lots of cursing.
The other thing I did was installing the Adaptto temp resistor, pushed it into the windings with some thermal grease and high temp gasket silicone.
I really hope I did not cut the isolation somewhere when I pushed the bearings onto the axle.
Pics or it didn't happen!

flimsy wires

Under the hood

Wires

Ground the axle groove out

New Wires

Tidying up

Sadly, I did not take any pictures where I replaced the wire insulation with heatshrink and closed the covers.
In the meantime some new shit arrived at my door!

Tubes & Freewheel removal tool

Brake Rotor & Brake Pads

Tires

Freewheel

Helmet

Last but not least: 6.5kg of pure LiPo-Power! (shipped with standard shipping (cost 7€), in that box...)

More pics will follow soon!

 

[MurderousFrog]

Since the last time I posted, lots of things have happened, and lots of stuff has been built!
But the bike still doesn't run! But soon it will.

After lots of trial & error I managed to fabricate a half-decent battery box out of fiber glass, even though it took me 3 attempts.
And it fits into the frame!
The next time I'll build something out of fiberglass, I will definitely do some things differently.
I forgot to put a rim band into my rear tire, so I ended up with a flat tire after a day or so. Lesson learned.
The adaptto MINI-E is fixed to the bike frame with a strip of metal with holes in it (don't know what it is called in english).
I soldered new XT150 Connectors onto my lipo's.

Things still to be done:
- Fabricate some metal bars to fix the battery box to the frame
- Drill holes into the box for cables entering and exiting
- Sand down and paint the battery box
- Cut the carbon plate I ordered into the right shape to cover the hole on the side of the battery box

Some pictures:

Melting the foam out of the box with acetone

Soldered new end connectors to the batteries

 

[soaresdacosta]

Very nice, keep going.

Luís.

 

[MurderousFrog]

Thank you very much Luis!

Yesterday I did my first test-run!
...and returned with bloody knees, a bruised back and one hell of a grin on my face.
This thing has so much more power than everything else I've ridden before, it's unbelievable! It threw me right on my back.
There's still loads of things to be done, but now I have even more motivation to make a nice bike out of it.
Pictures and Videos will follow as soon as possible.

 

[MurderousFrog]

Didn't have time to upload pics because I hade to ride this beast!

Wiring it up for the first test ride, I was so excited my hands were shaking!

I just taped up the side of the box with duck tape because I didn't want to make a cover just yet...

The first test ride ended with bloody knees, an aching back and a wide grin on my face.

Glued the screws into the box and installed a charging port

Wiring mess, I don't know where else to put it... :?

Went for a beautiful ride in the austrian hills with a friend, snapped some pictures

By the way, Luís, your bike was the motivation for covering the battery case with a carbon plate!

The box still needs to be sanded down & painted black, but I didn't have the time and wanted to get out and ride! The bike (and the helmet) definitely draw a lot of looks, but fortunately the police hasn't stopped me yet.
I still don't know what to do about the rear shifter on the handlebar, because currently I cant shift the rear because the throttle Is too big & blocks the shimano shifting levers...
And I have a 7x rear casette but a 8x shifter and I couldn't set the limit screw on the rear derailleur so low that shifting into the nonexistant 8th gear is not possible, so there's always the risk of forgetting that and shifting the chain into the motor cover :? Still got to figure out a solution for that.

Sadly, I encountered some weird issues yesterday. I already have ~50kms on the bike, and it always ran beautifully and silent, pulling like a freight train at @2.5kw (I don't dare cranking it up higher yet). I left the bike at my girlfriends place for two days and when I wanted to ride it back to my home it started cutting out the throttle when trying to accelerate and the adaptto display showed the !HALLS! error for a second, then it worked again for 30 seconds, then it cut out again and so on. I barely made it home, because in the end it would only run for half a second before cutting out again.
When checking the halls via the adaptto health monitor, they show the right order and seem to be working fine, and the motor temps have always stayed below 75°C when riding, so I don't think I cooked a hall sensor.
I might check the wiring when I get time, maybe some soldered connections have come loose.
Still, I would love to enjoy the last days of summer on my bike, outside in the woods, rather than sitting inside and fiddling around with the wiring. But hey, that's just how it is.

After riding a lot of wood trails, I'm kind of missing a rear suspension now...
I might get myself a Thudbuster LT to soften the ride, but they are rather expensive &can't replace a good full suspension.

I've been looking for some full-suspension bikes on my local craigslist-equivalent, but the good ones are so expensive!
Those sexy GIANT downhill bikes...

But at 1000€ I could buy a lot of things for the price of one downhill bike, plus I don't have the money for a second e-bike, although I wish I had

Do you guys think I could fit some lipo's in that triangle?

 

[soaresdacosta]

Hi,

Maybe....if you can put the "highpowercycles" bag in there...or you can try 18650 batterys.

Luís.

 

[MurderousFrog]

Already some weeks ago I sanded the box down and painted it black (Lots of work! > 15hrs combined) and it was definitely worth the effort, looks very good now, imho.



Howeverrrr I couldn't ride for very long, because apparently (one of?) my hall sensors died.
Already ordered some, should be delivered at the start of the week.
When I opened the motor, there was the next surprise waiting!
Two of my phase wires had cuts in the isolation, and the hall wires isolation was partially ground down from the motor cover... good thing I opened the motor before anything blew up!
Will try to fix this when I receive the halls.

In the meantime I already found the base for my new project:
A used Giant Reign SX from 2014

Holy sh*t I'm so excited about this, because the retail price for these is ~2000€ (new) & its advertised for 650€, but I will try to haggle the price down to 500€.
But even at 650€ this bike is a steal. I read some reviews online, these seem to be good all mountain/XC type full suspension bikes.
Should I pull the trigger on it and get it?

 

[soaresdacosta]

"...Should I pull the trigger on it and get it?..."
Yes, Its a very nice bike. If I catch a deal like this, I wont hesitate. You should look for the "HPC" bag. It will fit very well in this frame.

Take care,
Luís.

 

[MurderousFrog]

I actually drove 8 hours to buy the bike! Thanks for the tip Luis, it was really worth it. Even though it's got a full-suspension it probably weighs less than my Aspect (without motor & batteries ofc).
The frame is a large model, so it will be easy to fit lots of batteries on there. I'll probably start a seperate thread, which I'll link here.

 

[MurderousFrog]

Back to the Aspect, I've run into some issues...
I did replace the hall sensors, put the motor back together and now it runs very rough, wouldnt even start on adaptto autodetect. there is a grinding noise in the motor on each rotation. Also, it was cogging VERY hard. Maybe cogging is the wrong word, it wouldn't even want to turn, only under a lot of force....
So i opened it back up, found that the inner edge of the motor cover, just outside of the bearing, had ground into the newly isolated wires again! However, this was not the issue of the cogging. I will need to modify the axle even more to fit the wires inside the groove better.
Does anyone have some ideas for RELIABLY fitting bigger wires into the HT3525 except for a new axle with larger bearings? Although I know how to use them, I haven't got access to a lathe, mill, press or similar machines..
A hall sensor wire isolation was damaged as well.
I noticed that the motor bearing on the disc brake side is shot. I guess from banging the motor open and shut each time, because after ~50km a bearing should be running just as new. Any recommendations for a cheap hub cover remover tool? I used to unscrew the cover screws and hit the whole wheel onto the axle until the covers came loose, which isn't the best way to open the motor, i suppose.
Currently I am waiting for the new bearing, then I'll try to get the motor running again, but currently I'm pretty demotivated because the HT3525 is of such low quality and I haven't been able to modify it to make it better and/or more reliable. I just want to make that motor reliable to be used with a little more than stock power. On the next build I'll definitely use a different motor, maybe a MXUS 3000.

 

[MurderousFrog]

I switched the halls, cleaned and greased the "shot" bearing (which now runs perfectly...) and ran autodetect again, but the same issue persists.
I am now using shielded wires for the hall and temp signal cable.
On hard acceleration >2.5kw the throttle cuts out and a !HALLS! error is displayed.
Played a bit with the motor settings and only managed to make the bike pull way less, but somehow fixing the !HALLS! error. This is not a permanent solution, because the bike feels really sluggish now. Heats up a bit faster too.
I've run out of ideas what to fix, help please.