Shimano Steps, need some feedback please

[emco5]

Contrary to bike shop endearments, from a guy who rode a Trek Lift I’ve been told that the Shimano Steps system isn’t very strong on hills. Granted, it’s only 250w, but with its internal gearing and electronics feeding a 32t rear cog it should have some muscle. Where does it stand, is it comparable to a 350w geared hub and 32t rear?

 

[amberwolf]

Well, 350w vs 250w doesn't necessarily mean much depending on where that is measured, and how much torque you get out of each system at that wattage, and at what speed.

Assuming that all conditions are identical other than power level, then 250w would only be a bit more than 2/3 of the power of 350w. So if they are both run thru the same gearing, then the higher power would have higher torque, assuming all other properties are identical.

So...assuming identical other than power, then no they wouldn't be completely comparable, as the 250w would only have a bit more than 2/3 the torque of the 350w.

But my guess is that the two systems are not the same for their other properties, so can't be directly compared just based on power level.

Keep in mind that you'd be buying a whole bike with the system, though; AFAIK they're not available to convert existing bikes.

If it helps there have been a few other threads about this system:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&keywords=steps+shimano&sf=titleonly
haven't read them myself so they may not be relevant to you.

 

[PaulD]

Contrary to bike shop endearments, from a guy who rode a Trek Lift I’ve been told that the Shimano Steps system isn’t very strong on hills. Granted, it’s only 250w, but with its internal gearing and electronics feeding a 32t rear cog it should have some muscle. Where does it stand, is it comparable to a 350w geared hub and 32t rear?

I think the STEPS mid-drive would be much better on hills than a 350w hub, especially with a 32T rear cog. It feels plenty strong for a commercial ebike. Maybe the Lift is a poor climber because of the ridiculously slack seat angle. The only thing I don't like about STEPS is the 20 mph speed limit.

 

[MadRhino]

It is easy to feed 1000w to the 350w hub motor, while upgrading the power of the Shimano steps might be PITA.

 

[Voltron]

Of the big 3 turnkey crank drive systems, Shimano, Bosch, and Yamaha, the STEPS was the one the I had to keep looking down to make sure it was even turned on because the way the assist was so mild...

 

[emco5]

Thanks for the input, guys.

This should have been mentioned before… My present bike has a 36v 350w Bafang geared hub with thumb throttle generating 45Nm of torque, so I have that as a reference point. When climbing a 6% grade at 10mph with a 28t chainring and 32t cog in back, I have to pedal aggressively to assist the motor so it doesn’t drop rpm. On an 8% hill, the hub seems out of its league and I'm really working hard. Shimano’s 36v Steps makes 50Nm of torque, and has a 44t chainring [38t optional] with internal gear reduction which is further reduced by the 32t rear cog. It also has PAS torque and cadence sensors, and mapping. The more I ponder this, it just seems logical that Shimano's system has to be a better climber than the 350w hub. No doubt I’ll have to go find a Steps bike somewhere and experience it.

PaulD, what is your Steps minimum happy speed when climbing. I assume it doesn’t like low rpm loads any more than a hub motor does.

 

[MadRhino]

There was a kid at the shop, who was told:
Your 1$ is not enough, you need to come back with more

Do you believe that he went back with 4 quarters ?

Nope, he went back with 5$, and got the candy

 

[ScooterMan101]

Is your question based on you looking for which bike to buy ?

You want a Turn Key Bike ? or a DIY Mid-drive ?

A little over a year ago I read somewhere that in Europe , ( Spain ? ) that someone had developed a software Hack to trick the Bosch Mid-Drives into providing more / higher level of assist . But is that true with the latest Bosch motor ? is there a newer version of the Bosch ?

People who want power do DIY Systems .

Contrary to bike shop endearments, from a guy who rode a Trek Lift I’ve been told that the Shimano Steps system isn’t very strong on hills. Granted, it’s only 250w, but with its internal gearing and electronics feeding a 32t rear cog it should have some muscle. Where does it stand, is it comparable to a 350w geared hub and 32t rear?

 

[PaulD]

PaulD, what is your Steps minimum happy speed when climbing. I assume it doesn’t like low rpm loads any more than a hub motor does.

Depends on how hard I want to pedal With a mid-drive, you just shift down and go slower to prevent low RPM generating a lot of heat and wasting energy.

 

[emco5]

I found a dealer with a Shimano Steps mid-drive demo [Trek Lift] and did some riding up a 10% hill, so I will answer my own question in case anyone is interested. Compared to a 36v 350-watt geared hub, the 36v 250-watt mid-drive was the winner. The Steps had a 10-cog rear cluster and on the test hill it never sagged or felt over-loaded, even if I dawdled along. Accelerating just required a little more force on the pedals, or down-shifting a click or two which increased crank rpm and really bumped up the boost. The system regulates power output at three levels: Eco, Normal, and High. On the test hill its Normal mode at a moderate cadence of about 60-70 crank rpm felt very close to the strength of a 350w hub. In the High power range it was simply no contest. In my opinion, the 250w mid exceeds the climbing ability of a 350w geared hub, and with much less effort. It was impressive how efficient a small motor can be with smart software and good gearing.

 

[jbalat]

So which bike ? and can you bypass the 25kmhr limit ? I need to use it for commuting too and most commuters that ride daily will sit between 30-35kmhr.
The Emtb magazine found the Merida one sixty e 900 was the winner from a range of other e mountain bikes simply because of the shimano steps 8000 drive, but haven't found anywhere you can get it in Australia ?